DD, counselling and unhappy ExH

[FushandChups]

Since my separation early last year, DD has been coping less and less and following the recent implementation of 50/50 care, seems to have got worse. I decided that i can't bear to see her so unhappy and after speaking with her teacher who has also seen a change, arranged to see the school nurse. This is to get some advice and ultimately, i would like to use this as a way to access some counselling for her. She is in reception.

H is absolutely adamant that this must not happen. He doesn't want me speaking to the nurse and if i do, she's not allowed to speak to anyone else. DD can talk to him (as its obviously me making her sad because she's fine when she's with him) but no way is she to talk to anyone else.

In brief, he doesn't want her labelled and no matter what i say about there being no possibility of her being labelled, it can only help her, she needs to talk to someone that is completely separate from the situation, he is stating it is not happening.

I don't know what to do other than just plough on as she is really hurting and i don't think me or him is enough for her at the moment. She needs some extra help in coping with what has happened but he is obsessed with this label issue.

He is her father so obviously has every right to say no but on this occasion, i think he is not looking at the big picture. I want DD to be happy with herself and her situation and think this could be a hugely helpful step.

Has anyone been through this with their DC post separation? Did it help them? Or should i just carry on, watching my DD just get sadder and sadder?

I don't think i can lie but i do wonder whether to just go ahead regardless.

Frog - i don't recognise your description in my H no - he is very confident and capable with the children (was sahp until we separated) and i don't think he thinks i am going to take them away because i wouldn't. I am supportive of contact as do really want them to have him in their lives. He also wasn't abusive in the marriage - he just said he didntt love me one day and left (to his ow, of course). So i am very supportive of the 50/50 care as my DC do deserve that depth of a relationship with their father.

But at the same time, he does seem controlling, not a description i would've used in our marriage but definitely since he left. He thinks i am projecting my unhappiness onto her although i do try to hide this from the children and am beginning to feel much happier now than i have been in a long while - just as DD is the unhappiest

Perhaps he is trying to continue to control the one thing he used to control completely and doesn't get that my parenting decisions and suggestions are just as valid.

Oh, i don't know. I think i will try & speak to her teacher again?

My parents did shared parenting with me and my sisters. We were 13,9 and 6. There were teething issues but it worked well for us in the end.

Sounds like he isn't comfortable with the thought that his behavior and choices are having a negative effect (what the hell does he expect) on his DD.

It's not fair of him to brush them aside. She will probably be fine but why not give her some help initially, in the form of counseling.

He is trying to make out that his parenting is whiter than white, saying that dd is fine and rosey with him, I wonder if her teacher finds any change in her behaviour when she is with him that would collaborate his side?

I would be talking to gp as well as school on the issue of councelling and how your dd has been. Just get a feeling it would be better to get other people who can help into place I order for your dd to have the help that is her right as a human in distress. Ffs this is not about him, he needs to stop being controlling.

Fush how do you feel about this......

'H is absolutely adamant that this must not happen. He doesn't want me speaking to the nurse and if i do, she's not allowed to speak to anyone else. DD can talk to him (as its obviously me making her sad because she's fine when she's with him) but no way is she to talk to anyone else.'

Hag - not sure if you mean about him not allowing DD a voice or blaming me for her upset.

Not allowing me to ask for help is deeply distressing (hence why I'm posting at 1am) as i have seen DD become increasingly insecure and clingy and now downright miserable for a while now. He says she is never like this with him - he never sees it, his mum never does, even the fucking gf doesn't see it so it must be my fault and maybe it is? maybe i am failing her but i am trying to help her understand what she's feeling. If it comes out that it is me, so be it - i will do all i can to work on myself to make our relationship better. But i think it goes much deeper than that.. sorry, am waffling.

Why wouldn't you want to help your child? I don't know who H is anymore and i worry for the future as both DC develop as anything that is wrong or makes them unhappy, gets swept under the carpet. I don't want them as close-minded and emotionally unhealthy as him.

You're safe, that's why you're getting the brunt of it. All her insecurities, bless her. Don't take it personally, it's a compliment in a way :)

I think there's a principle at stake here which is - broadly - that separated parents, during the time the child is in their care, should have the authority to get their child help if needed. What we're talking about here is an unhappy child talking to an adult who may have something useful to contribute. If DD was unwell, would you phone him to ask if it was OK for her to see a doctor, or just get on and do it? If she had an accident when staying at his house would you expect him to ask your permission to go to A&E or simply take her along and tell you what was happening? When she is in his care, he can decide who she sees and talks to. When she is in your care, the same applies.

I think your mistake OP was to flag it in advance.

I do think he is worried about himself primarily.

Being with him, his mother and his girlfriend is a completely different set up. She's probably on her best behaviour as, except for them, it's a different environment, with essentially strangers.
She probably misses you.

If I leave my son on holiday with his grandparents or aunt, he likes it, but he still misses me and prefers to be with me. It is mildly stressing for him, as it's a new set up, new rules, different people he's not used to live with.

She must be releasing all the tension when she returns to you.
And even if it was the case that it was your fault, both of you still needed help to make her happy.

He is being totally unreasonable in this case.

So, I'd advise you to get her (and you) all the help you can get. If he kicks out, he can complain to a judge, who I don't think will see his position with very good eyes.

Sorry, it should be "except for him,"

that separated parents, during the time the child is in their care, should have the authority to get their child help if needed

Unlike physical care, treating a DC for an emotional issue requires the engagement and input of both parents.
A therapist/counsellor will need access to both parents - particularly with such a young child - in order to maximise the benefits.

But, in order to make an informed decision, you must talk to as many people as you feel necessary. His parental responsibility does not extend to who you choose to talk to about your DD. Gather the facts, find out what options there are and then decide whether you believe the potential damage that could be done by securing counselling without your DDs dads permission is outweighed by the benefits.

There may not be a right answer - just one that you feel is least wrong.

I disagree that there's a difference between physical and mental help. Besides, we're talking about a friendly chat with a school nurse here.... not whole family therapy.

I think it's jumping the gun to talk of therapists here. She probably just needs a way to verbalise what she is feeling. He doesn't need to know if he's being difficult.

If dd had been younger I would have just organised something with the school.

Sounds like he's just trying to point the finger of blame at you.

Could you agree that the problem is quite possibly you and that you want your DD to have the chance to talk to a neutral third party about it?

I just thought that if he thought you wanted support with your parenting rather than picking holes in his he might be more supportive.

My DHs experience with his DS school was that they have dedicated/trained staff to provide that level of pastoral support, and even they are looking for positive engagement by both parents. My DHs DS was offered play therapy within school, but only if both parents were prepared to talk to the staff member to give background info first.

I think you need to make it quite clear to him that if he doesn't consent to counselling he will be jeopardising his parental responsibility because he is obstructing and denying medical support.

As Cogito says, it's not physical help but it may as well be (and is provided by the Health service) and in the eyes of Social Services it might be seen in a similar way. Your actions are reasonable and to be expected - he is being unreasonable IMO and not putting the needs of his child first.

You also need to reassure him that mental health support is always confidential but if this conflict continues it is more than likely going to have to be discussed openly in order to come to an agreement.

Treating a DC for an emotional issue requires the engagement and input of both parents.

Really? What about children in care or who have lost parents? Of course it's ideal to have consent from both parents but I hardly think it is essential.

Thank you all.

Minesapint - i am happy to agree that its my fault if it would help but this is where he sees me projecting my feelings onto her - he just won't consider that his DD is hurting or needs help as she's fine with him.

I am going to speak with both her teacher and my GP tomorrow. Her teacher is still off sick (H spoke to a TA yesterday who told him DD was fine which only gave him ammunition). I will also speak to my GP in the morning (am on a work trip today unfortunately) to see about counselling for me so that i can try to help her.

I agree that I think he needs to be engaged for any chance of this to work as DD has had enough mixed messages and change in the last year.

"What about children in care or who have lost parents?"

My DS's father is not a co-parent but is supportive. In the past DS has had problems with bullying requiring intervention from teachers, mentors etc. I may have told his father about it at the time but it has never occurred to me that he'd need to be directly involved.

horse of course if a parent is dead, then that parent can't be involved.

But if a DC is referred for emotional support because of difficulties in settling into a shared care arrangement, then its self-evident that the therapist is going to need input from bit primary carers.

For example - my DD displayed distress at staying at her Dads home after previously being settled there. She was reluctant to talk to either of us about the situation, so we asked whether she could have a session with the family therapist at school. It quickly transpired that she was struggling to sleep at Dads house because she was too hot in her room - a quick word from the staff member and voila! Problem solved. If her Dad had refused to engage in the process, got angry about DD talking to someone outside the family and refused to listen to my third-hand feedback from then the problem would have escalated.

While both parental engagement is not essential, it is certainly desirable, and in my experience, many professionals won't intervene unless both parents are on board where it is appropriate for them to be.

An abusive parent is hardly likely to engage with professionals. It is ludicrous to suggest that in thise scenarios, an emotionally or otherwise abusive parent should be invited to give their opinion on why their childs demeanour and behaviour have changed as a condition of that child receiving support.

Sorry I still don't get why both parents HAVE to be involved for professionals to take it on. It sounds like a feeble excuse on the part of the services to avoid paying for support. It actually makes me quite angry that children's voices are not being heard simply because adults are fixed in their processes and systems.

And it goes against one of the five principles behind Every Child Matters, the foundation for all our processes in children's services. It is something that must be changed, and is probably legally unsound.

Ideally both parents should be involved, but they don't have to be.

I don't think it's giving mixed messages if you go through with it without his involvement.
And it doesn't matter what anyone else says. If you notice she is not well when with you, you notice it. It's not likely that other people will. They don't know her that well and she's not likely to show that much with other people.

I get that with DS. He talks to me fairly freely, but not with other people.

Ideally both parents should be involved but clearly only when they have the childs best interests at heart.

Trust your instinct OP. Your little girl is unhappy.

And in fact, I might well reply to him that if he is against seeking help for her that I'd begin to think he was the root cause of her unhappiness and didn't want to be found out.

Spoken with him today as r spoke to the head today who has also stated DD is fine. I feel like i am losing my mind as he is just laying into me saying its my fault, it must be how i am with her, i need to just snap her out of it.

i have an appointment with the deputy head tomorrow as her teacher is likely to still off sick but H is refusing to attend with me. Hrs just wants me to tell him the teachers concerns and then he'll get his side over and then i can talk separately to them etc. Why won't he even meet with her teachers with me?

i honestly feel like I've stirred up a hornets nest after speaking with her teacher to now have NO support from the school.

Apparently, we don't parent together anymore