What kind of relationship is this?

[annaomar]

I met my DH four years ago. He is Arabic, I am English. I do love him very much and he says he loves me but I think actions speak louder than words....... We married after about 6 months. We have never lived together - I see him, always at his home 2 or 3 times a week. Saturdays I sleep at his and maybe once a month during the week. He has always been more interested in his friends than in me - I assume this is an Arab man thing. He goes out to meet them to drink tea, play billiards, smoke shisha etc. he never tells me where he goes and he gets angry if I ask. I don't entirely trust him regarding other women - I don't have evidence, just a strong feeling which he laughs at. He stays up late and sleeps late so even on our days together we rarely go anywhere or do anything together. I often think he treats me with a sort of contempt but I also feel like I've lost perspective and don't know if I'm being over sensitive. I earn more than him and give him money - although what he does with it I don't know and he gets angry if I ask him. When we are together he is very loving - he gives me lots of hugs & kisses and he is very good at spotting if I've been upset by someone or had a bad day, so he's obviously paying attention somewhere along the line. At the same time though the relationship seems to be driven by what he wants. I spend lots of time thinking I should leave but I don't want to hurt him.

Sadly I did get in touch - I was just in shock. He said it was a sick joke being played by someone who hates him. But - it was a long international call that must have cost her a lot of money, she was distraught, and she knew so much stuff. I think she was genuine and don't think it's a joke. O was horrible - he said it was my fault, that I made trouble for him, that all my friends would be laughing at me. I feel awful. I know it's more proof of his horribleness, that I'm better off without him etc. Maybe I intellectualise things too much and can't just accept that he is just a vile, horrible man. My counsellor says I will never get inside his head but I feel want an explanation.

Lweji, apparently it was done by Skype. They both read vows in the presence of two witnesses then separately signed contracts. Apparently this is Islamically binding - I know a case where this happened then a couple of weeks later the couple both met up for a "legal" ceremony. I don't know how she got my number - she said something about seeing a list of numbers and names on Viber when he messages her and her sister had said that Anna is a woman's name so she called me. She also said he'd sent her a phone and I don't know if this was one he'd used so had a list of numbers. My friend said this woman was so distressed that she was incoherent so it was hard to find out lots of details. I don't know what he had to gain from this - it doesn't seem he wanted her to come to this country. My friend thinks it was an ego boost and he got some kind of weird kick out of it. As you can see, I have been a lot more forthcoming now about my relationship to some of my friends. They have been so supportive - I wish I had told them months ago.

Anna, how extraordinary, and how horrible.

Tbh, I don't care whether she's real or a friend playing a joke or just more of his manipulation, and I don't care how she got your number. Nor should you. None of the options are good, they are all bad bad bad, and further proof of just how horrid he is and how well out of it all you are.

I am so sorry. You deserve so much better and are worth so much more.

I know it's hard to put things behind you, especially when they seem incomprehensible and you are used to understanding before making decisions and moving on. I need to do that too - I overthink and intellectualise.

Sometimes, you just have to stop. Sometimes you just have to accept that you will never 'get' it. Some people are incomprehensible and that's it, that's where it ends.

As your counsellor said, you are unlikely to ever get inside his head. You won't get an explanation. He will remain incomprehensible. One day you won't care, you won't need to understand. Work towards that, look forward. Looking back is just wasting more of you, throwing good after bad. He will always break your heart. He will always let you down. He will always lie and cheat and steal. He will not always do those things to you because you are not going to let him do it any more.

Be strong. Tell yourself that it really doesn't matter why. What matters is what actually happened and that you stop him now. What matters is the future, your future, where you will be free to make a good and happy and honest life for yourself.

You matter. You do, not him.

I'm glad you are getting RL support now. :)

From experience, it is liberating.

And now for the process of detaching yourself from him.

So he was horrible, claimed it was all a lie and that everything's your fault - no change there, then

I'm sad that he's fooled yet another woman with some version of what's "Islamic" and what isn't, but luckily she's really not your problem. Should she call again, you'd be wise to refuse to take the call; you've had enough trouble with him yourself, without taking on someone else's problems as well

Jux is right; one day this will all seem unreal and you'll wonder why you allowed this waste of space in your life for so long. Happily, you have RL friends who are also being supportive - wonderful!! Onwards and upwards ...

I bet she is not the only woman out there who he's done this to. I am glad that you are getting real life support now and that you have a counsellor to help you deal with what this horrible man has done to you.

He's a pimp, and he's pimping several others. Sorry if I'm not educated but I'd strongly advise you call the police because you are a victim of a fraud and this piece of shit needs bringing to justice. I can't believe you fell for all this crap. Have you no self respect what so ever?
You will smell the coffee sooner or later and you have every right to get angry and get even.
He's a trickster, I've met them. Tell the scoundrel to fuck the fuck off because you have a life to live and you need to make up for the four years you've had the misfortune to know this wanker.

Unfortunately for people like your husband the only answer they are ever able to give is because they can.

They like to push peoples boundaries and get them to do things and accept behaviour they never normally would just by being so sure of themselves.

Upshot is they don't care about anyone else as they are all just commodities with differing values. Value here means what he can get out of them and nothing more.

There is a lot of stuff on this thread about this man's culture and religion and so on. Really you need to ignore all that and just focus on him as a person. Would you tolerate this treatment from a British man? I doubt it. He is also using the Muslim / Arab issue to his advantage e.g. saying to you that an Arab woman would never question her husband if he asked for money (which others on this thread have exposed as complete BS anyway).

Step back from the situation and look at it with fresh eyes.

What I see here is a man who is emotionally immature and unable to pursue a mature relationship with a woman. It's interesting that the 'other woman' who called you is another woman at arm's length, just like you. She is so far at arm's length she's in another country!

Whatever the reason for it may be, he is obviously a commitment-phobe. He may well have had affection for you at some point and wanting to do the right thing, suggested that you take the nikah vow to formalize your relationship. When it came to the practicalities of moving in together, however, he couldn't do it. Over the past 4(?) years it seems to me that his affection for you has waned but he also doesn't hate you (as he claims) or feel he wants you out of his life. You are probably a nice fall-back for him if he needs a bit of cash or affection or an ego-boost or whatever.

That's no different to any guy in the UK dating a woman, still sleeping with her, still letting her buy him gifts and cook him dinner or whatever but really not feeling that much for her anymore and equally not wanting to man up and end the relationship either. Because it's convenient.

Both of you need to just accept the relationship, as it was, is over and you no longer have the feelings for each other that you had.

What were your previous relationships like, OP? Please don't take this the wrong way but is this your first serious (in your eyes) relationship? You seem like a very sincere, deep-feeling person and I can imagine you don't fall in love easily. There is a level of emotional immaturity to both of you here (again, sorry if that is hurtful... I hope you know what I mean) that is dragging this relationship out longer than is necessary. Since he is clearly childish and scared of honesty, you need to be the bigger person and end this. Just say to him firmly and honestly: "this relationship is not working out for either of us. We both need to move on and end this now"

It will be hard for you, as it's hard to end any relationship, but you can do a lot better! Really, a whole lot better than this.

I agree with upupupandaway.
you have become a victim of fraud and you need to call the police, don't let him get away with so much you lost to him.

The most shocking thing about that phone call, to me, is that you referred to yourself as his wife.

You're not. You. Are. Not. His. Wife.

You never have been his wife. You've been his bank and his plaything. Nothing more.

In the context, I'd probably have also said I was his wife.

But I hope you do not feel like you are (or were) any longer, anna.
Reporting for fraud may be a good idea. But thread carefully, as it might lead to retaliation.

Yes. That sounded unsympathetic and I don't mean to be. But he's done such a number on you.

But stop thinking of the bastard as your husband. The best thing about this situation is that he isn't.

Oh my. He is really revealing himself in his true colours now.

Don't even try to get into his head, it sounds so fucked up you really don't want to go there.

This is a man who basically doesn't like women and gets a perverse kick and ego boost from spinning them lies and stringing them along. He sounds even worse than I originally thought.

Sometimes you can't understand why people act as they do, some things don't have a rational explanation. Whatever O's motivation, he's a thoroughly nasty individual who will destroy you completely if you allow him to. Don't let him. You don't need explanations from him as nothing can justify his behaviour. Don't ever contact him again. He probably gets pleasure from your distress and hurt, as these are signs that he has power over you.

You're doing so well, Anna, stay strong, stay angry.

I'm glad you are getting RL support.

Please Anna, call the police, I bet they have a dossier a foot deep on this guy. You have been a victim of a criminal activity. If he was genuine why would he spend 1 or 2 nights a week with his "wife". Fraudsters come up with all sorts of excuses as to why they need to spend time apart from their " loved" ones. It is often illness or business obligations, they can be very convincing; it can go on for decades, You will not be wasting police time; there is criminal activity here. It is probably on an even grander scale than you could possibly imagine. Just make that call. You have absolutely nothing to lose and you could be helping other poor women from falling prey to this despicable creature.

Keep as much evidence as you can; phone calls Skype etc. He's a con artist and he will be convicted for his crimes, Sadly it is unlikely you will ever get your money back but at least you will be able to move forward and start living in the real world. An expensive lesson, but a lesson all the same.

Are they both Moroccan? Run like the wind.

What I know about a lot of people from that part of the world, you don't wanna know!

This is now turning into a surreal scam, change your numbers and sever all methods he has to contact you.

You really are doing so well love, i'm so glad you have got RL friends to support you. You sound lovely!

Hissy, be careful. I respect the hell out of you and I acknowledge your experience but don't generalise like that please, it skates very close to racism and 'from what I know of people from that part of the world' is entirely incorrect.

I truly appreciate that point, I really do, but have spent a good amount of time there with my ex, and the things that happened there were beyond comprehensible tbh.

Egyptians are very wary of their Moroccan cousins. I know many, many Egyptian men (who speak the same/similar language, have same religion etc) that have been left absolutely desolate, financially stripped, and spat out. In one case the kids were dumped in a doorway by the mother and a call to the father to come and get them cos they didn't suit her lifestyle/pursuit of new richer bloke.

All of this without any sign whatsoever.

Different cultures have extremely different ways and views.

This man is on a scam, and now there's a woman roped into the mix. Why? Who knows, but a sad sob story will emerge, or the hope is that Anna will 'fight for her man' and try and 'get back with him' trust me, no good will come from the pair of them.

I appreciate that a few bad experiences does not make a nationality, but based on what i've seen with my own eyes, knowing what a few are capable of, i'd stay a million miles away.

I'm not going to argue that it's a culture that is vastly different to ours and yes, using people for gain is accepted as far more normal than we might expect. I also counsel caution when getting involved with anyone from a part of the world where poverty and want is a fact of life for so many people and where opportunities to better your situation are so hard to come by.
I fell on my feet with my in laws and having just spent a week with them I feel like I cannot let your assertions lie. I also absolutely love morocco as a country and see a huge amount that is wonderful about the culture and society, whilst not having my eyes closed to what is really not.
The Muslim brotherhood, religious fanaticism, enforced covering, widespread sexual assaults and fgm are aspects of Egyptian culture that are unrecognised in morocco. They are vastly different cultures despite their shared aspects.

Anyway isn't this guy supposed to be Palestinian? The only connection with morocco is a supposed internet wife he has there, which is perfectly possible. Lots of Moroccan women use the internet to find boyfriends, often several at a time and all over the Arab world. They use viber a lot for this.

Oh I agree, as I lived in Egypt for a number of years, I know there are some truly vile aspects of life there. I hated every second. Everyone there had some kind of agenda. even if it took years to come out, it always did.

They don't enforce covering, though, they emotionally blackmail and shame women into it, Men in egypt appear to be so predatory and women are so unsupported by literally everyone. It's like they are trying to drive women back into their homes where they belong. :( High unemployment is making things worse, inneffective police and social structure just adds to it.

I haven't been to Morocco for about 10 years, I dare say it's changed a lot since then, I thought it was a beautiful country, but some of the things I saw were just beyond belief. There are good people, but there are those that live in the underbelly too. Sex appears to be a currency somehow. My point is that most of us are ill prepared to understand what motivates and drives others in cultures so vastly different to ours. The fact that an intelligent egyptian man with international education, good connections and well travelled got left with nothing but the shirt on his back. We saw his house, his car, his life, it was great. he paid for it all. But she suggested for tax reasons etc that it'd be best if the property was in her name as she was a national. I saw him not long after he scraped enough to get a flight back to London. he was broken. utterly devastated.

Now he's back in Egypt with a new wife for his kids and has placed his entire life in gods hands. it's not going well.

I've lived in South America too, completely different vibe, despite the poverty, sure there are chancers there too and those that would take advantage, if the opportunity presented itself, but FAR less orchastrated IME. There the issue is personal safety, not so much fraud.

There are chancers in all cultures. Plenty of people get taken in by their fellow nationals, whatever the nationality.

I agree though that "poor" countries have a higher number. I live in a country where there is no unemployment benefit, no DLA, and family allowance is the equivalent of the cost of one tin of baby milk per month. This does encourage people to make money any way they can, including by dishonest means

Anna, I read your update with a heavy heart. In my painful experience, you will never know anywhere near half of what there is of O. It's really hard, but letting go ..or starting to begin to know you never really knew him..is the only way we can go. Hugs x

Some horrible attitudes on here, due to personal experiences...

I was married too to a man from another culture (beautiful son at uni) family there, amazing, muslim and christian..

We all are responsible for our own [fuck ups]