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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What kind of relationship is this?

613 replies

annaomar · 16/03/2014 01:16

I met my DH four years ago. He is Arabic, I am English. I do love him very much and he says he loves me but I think actions speak louder than words....... We married after about 6 months. We have never lived together - I see him, always at his home 2 or 3 times a week. Saturdays I sleep at his and maybe once a month during the week. He has always been more interested in his friends than in me - I assume this is an Arab man thing. He goes out to meet them to drink tea, play billiards, smoke shisha etc. he never tells me where he goes and he gets angry if I ask. I don't entirely trust him regarding other women - I don't have evidence, just a strong feeling which he laughs at. He stays up late and sleeps late so even on our days together we rarely go anywhere or do anything together. I often think he treats me with a sort of contempt but I also feel like I've lost perspective and don't know if I'm being over sensitive. I earn more than him and give him money - although what he does with it I don't know and he gets angry if I ask him. When we are together he is very loving - he gives me lots of hugs & kisses and he is very good at spotting if I've been upset by someone or had a bad day, so he's obviously paying attention somewhere along the line. At the same time though the relationship seems to be driven by what he wants. I spend lots of time thinking I should leave but I don't want to hurt him.

OP posts:
RedNosedClone · 25/04/2014 22:32

NettleTea and Hissy have summed it up very well.

These men have no moral compass whatsoever. They come from the lowest levels of their society. They feel nothing but contempt for the western women they live off.

DippyDooDahDay · 25/04/2014 22:50

nettle, great post. My ex to a T. Of course. Not all ME men are like this, but nettle you perfectly outline a type and an approach.
Anna, thinking of you. My ex h rocked up two days ago, fresh from 6 months in Iran, 'penniless, homeless and persecuted there..again...' ..as nettle says, he seems unable to appreciate and value that which good people try to do and gravitas back to seedy sides. Anna, we both saw their good looks, overlooked the balding crowns and fell in love, at least in part, with their potential. Not doing that again. It's hard, and I think my ex wants to come back into my life, but I have toughened up x

annaomar · 25/04/2014 23:07

Stay strong DippyDooDahDay! Easy to say, hard to do as I know too well.

OP posts:
SoleSource · 26/04/2014 00:49

Does he have a British passport?

Jux · 26/04/2014 03:35

Anna, one very positive thing you could do for yourself now, and for your future health and happiness, is get yourself onto the Freedom Programme. Ask your GP about it. There'll be something like it running in your area, I'm sure.

It'll help you recognise potential abusers, reset your boundaries and expectations and boost your confidence.

As Upupupandaway says, you are now saving a lot of money, so do treat yourself. Make some smaller changes in your home to signify your fresh start: new bedding is a good one. Perhaps move the furniture round a bit, or rearrange some ornaments. Paint a wall. Just make the place look a bit different. Go wild! Grin

annaomar · 26/04/2014 07:46

My counsellor told me about the Freedom programme - I'll talk to her again about it when I see her next. She has suggested that we work together on setting boundaries. It is silly because I know where my boundaries are (that is, I know where I start feeling uncomfortable about doing things or I know when things aren't right) but I often doubt myself and think that I'm being unreasonable (a confidence issue?) or I am over-empathetic and knowingly stretch my boundaries way beyond what's good for me. I did both of these with O. I nearly posted my first post in the AIBU thread.

OP posts:
DippyDooDahDay · 26/04/2014 08:40

Anna, am exactly the same with boundaries, but I work with vulnerable and often manipulative clients and have great boundaries with them. My relationship with my ex h made me hugely doubt myself and what is reasonable..I think this is a direct result of their behaviour and manipulation, and a touch of our people pleasing happy ending fantasies, maybe? Sounds like you are doing great Anna x

NettleTea · 26/04/2014 10:07

Anna, I too know I have a real trouble with boundaries (am having problems with DD right now regarding that, but thats another story)
I would know what my boundaries were but doubt them. I would know I felt uncomfortable, or I would compare the latest 'let down' and it would seem silly to break up, because it wasnt as bad as the really bad things we had apparently moved on from... I didnt know what to do (and still dont to a certain extent) where I had expressed, or we had agreed, on something being unacceptable and then he just ignored it. The ex used to push every boundary going. But in sneaky ways that I didnt realise it alot - my 'normal' was constantly being reset, and with his completely different culture thrown in that was always a handy excuse....
Now I know that the only way I can deal with people who are like that is to go NC. I have nothing to do with the ex - contact is organised through a 3rd party and so I have no dealings, because I know, even now, 12 years after the divorce, that he would disregard any arrangements, be abusive, etc, because this is his mindset to dealing with me, and how he regards me. And I still have no tools beyond no contact to deal with him. I just ensure I dont have those kind of people in my life, as my upbringing has not given me the ability to deal with them.

DippyDooDahDay · 26/04/2014 11:13

Another great post Nettle. This is helping me too as I am supervising contact with recently returned ex h and our ds. Boundaries!! Another helpful thing, and maybe this is only relevant for me, but I have found avoiding alcohol at times when I am feeling upset or vulnerable to ex really helps. Alcohol in just small amounts gets me donning those rose coloured glasses and straying from who I now know I really am.

RedNosedClone · 26/04/2014 12:06

As Nettle said, boundaries are a huge problem when mixed with cultural differences. How to tell where the cultural difference ends and abuse begins?

In some societies women are routinely used and abused by their men. But not all women. And not all Arab men are abusers. Just a certain kind of man. This kind of man will abuse women from his own country if he thinks he can get away with it. But the ideal target is always a westerner, as they are more open to sob stories about exile etc, more easily bowled over by "exotic" looks and accent, and when unreasonable behaviour is questioned he can wave the cultural card. And of course, the UK is a country where people are tolerant and respectful of cultural differences.

He can get away with a lot this way, as foreign partners rarely know a great deal about ME culture, apart from what ME man himself tells them. He certainly never tells them that the decent people in his own country would despise him for living the way he does - the only ones who would admire his way of life are other tossers like himself, from the dregs of their society.

I've lived in an Arab country for many years, I've seen so many cases of manipulation and abuse. There is a certain attitude that it's ok to take a woman for whatever you can get out of her, if she hands over the money it's her own fault for being naive. The men who manipulate foreigners like this have no conscience, no compassion. Love is an alien concept to them, but they are great actors and psychologists - they know exactly which buttons to press to get what they want. They say all the things the woman wants to hear, and quickly get her emotionally dependant. Then they can gradually revert to type (it gets tedious, putting on an act all the time), but switch back to wonderful lover mode when necessary to keep the woman hooked.

Love has never been high on the list in ME relationships anyway - in arranged marriages it is a union of land, money, clan. Love doesn't even enter into it, it's just a bonus if it happens. Where I live, arranged marriages are much rarer now. Some young people marry for love, but plenty still marry for what the partner can bring them materially.

annaomar · 26/04/2014 12:38

It is certainly true that if I protested or questioned anything I would get an "Arab women wouldn't .....ask husband to stay home, ask what time he'll be back etc etc" And I also used to get "Arab women have soft hearts, they wouldn't wait for husband to ask, they'd just give ....car, money etc". I guess if Arab women were so perfect why didn't he choose one? (no insult intended there to Arabic women). I can now answer my own question I think ..... No right-minded Arab women or her family would let h get away with any nonsense!

I've been sad to observe in the community round where O lives that a lot of young Arab men will have English girlfriends (often very young looking). A particular "type" of girl (I'm making a horrible judgment, and perhaps I should know better, based on clothes, make up, use of language) but then they get married to girls from their own community who have been very protected and have been given limited freedom. Very sadly I always thought I was different to those English girls - older, better educated, good job, a nice "middle class" life. I buy from Boden for goodness sake (feeble attempt at joke!). I thought that I was wanted because I was loved. Oh how wrong I think Ive been (shakes head bitterly).

OP posts:
Hissy · 26/04/2014 13:37

This reply has been deleted

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RedNosedClone · 26/04/2014 14:26

Sadly you are right, Anna. The English girlfriends are fine for exploiting, but very often not good enough for marrying as the ME men want to marry virgins whose background they understand and can check out.

My DH still occasionally trots out the " an Arab woman wouldn't say that" kind of thing. When I ask him why he didn't marry one, he says he wouldn't want their whole family on his back...although he says it in a jokey way, I can imagine there is an element of truth in it.

Despite all the years I have lived in an Arab country, I struggle sometimes . I know how their minds work (mostly), but I still don't always understand why they think in certain ways. Cultural differences run much deeper than different rites and customs, and should never be underestimated.

RedNosedClone · 26/04/2014 14:37

Hissy your post sounds depressingly accurateSad

upupupandaway · 26/04/2014 20:56

You know on Netmums these replies would be deleted for being racist. I don't thin they are; they are true accounts of what happens in real life. I had numerous threads deleted on Netmums for bemoaning the influx of European Roma in my neighbourhood. Me a racist?? Think not! Most of my friends are Asian/Caribbean/African as where I live there are not many British White people. I don't have a problem with that; I have issues with people who take the piss irrespective of colour/ethnicity/ religious beliefs.
OP, you seem to be waking up at last; to the fact your " partner" has manipulated you to fund his lifestyle. You will get over this horrible episode in your life and you'll become stronger and wiser. Take this learning curve as a means to rethinking who you are and what you want from life. I take it you have a decent income, good job; great building blocks for an greater future.

annaomar · 26/04/2014 21:23

I know there is truth in what's been written about O. And I feel so hurt that he can cast me off so quickly and unquestioningly - I could be ill, have family problems, anything really, but but he hasn't bothered to ask what's wrong and has sent a silly childish message about hate. It all goes to show what sort of person he is. BUT, nevertheless I miss him..... It is taking supreme effort not to phone or text him.

OP posts:
upupupandaway · 26/04/2014 22:04

I honestly know how you feel Anna I was promised the world bit it all came crashing at my feet, I see my XP for what he really was. He's a nobody, but I don't pity him. He went on to hurt so many lovely women. He's a joke; a lost cause. You will get over this. Invest in yourself; try taking a different path. You are not the naïve woman you used to be. Life is for living. It'll take time, there will be set backs , but you'll get there.

LuluJakey1 · 26/04/2014 22:51

I don't understand this relationship at all. It isn't a marriage. It is all on his terms, at his convenience and fits into his preferred lifestyle.

Why are you letting him treat you like this?

We have a couple of male friends who are arabs. Neither of them treats their wives like this. Yes, they are culturally different in some ways but they are both caring and respectful and lving husbands. I don't think this is a cultural thing at all.

annaomar · 03/05/2014 14:03

This just gets from bad to worse. So I haven't been in contact with him- I'm getting along ok. Not happy, quite sad really, but coping. Then yesterday I'm sitting at work when I get an international phone call. A woman on the other end of the phone says to me, in very broken English , "are you friend O." I said no, I'm wife O. There was silence for a few seconds then she said "I'm wife O". Blinking heck. This poor woman told me her name and that she lives in Morocco but her English was very limited. Luckily my friend who speaks fluent Arabic was there and could translate for us. I can't get my head round this. She says they married over the Internet 2 years ago. They have never met but he calls or Skypes her every day. He has sent her gifts. He told her he was not married and lived here for 25 years but there were problems with his papers so she couldn't come to the UK. She was sobbing her heart out on the phone and kept telling me how sorry she was to do this to me. I don't know how she got my number. She saw me in a video clip of my birthday party and O had told her I was his teacher from college and the others at the party were all students. She knows who his friends are, about the coffee shop, his friends wife's baby..... Every thing except me. I am shocked - I know some of you posters won't be, but I am. I don't know what to make of it. I m at a loss for words!

OP posts:
NettleTea · 03/05/2014 14:33

So sorry to hear that Anna, but perhaps you can view her as having been sent at a time when you might have wobbled, just to confirm that you are certainly doing the right thing.

If there are two of you then there may well be more.

Or, alternatively she could be a ruse to either a) punish you for not carrying on being the cash cow, or b) make you go running back for an explaination, hence making contact.

None of those options are great. All of those options are plausible. But let them strengthen your resolve to remove yourself from this very mixed up situation.

As for the lady - there is nothing you can do, only emphasise if the story is true. But I wouldnt get involved. This is his shit to sort out, not yours.

NettleTea · 03/05/2014 14:34

sorry I meant to say she could be a ruse to make you make contact with him, wherein he would claim ignorance and say its a jealous friend causing trouble, but he would have made you get in touch and would get a chance to try to talk you round

I hope your councilling is going well xxx wishing you strength

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 03/05/2014 14:41

If that's not motivation to scrub every last thought of him out of your mind forever, I don't know what is.

"Married over the internet two years ago." I dunno how that works and I don't think you should really care. At least you know where your money has been going to.

I hope she can get her divorce as easily as you can get yours.

sarinka · 03/05/2014 14:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/05/2014 14:53

I'm genuinely very sorry to hear that, Anna, both for yourself AND this other lady (if, as Nettletea suggests, she does exist in the way she's presented!!)

Once again you're naturally shocked bcause you believed he shared at least some of your views on how to behave. Of course he doesn't - you've already started to realise that and it's becoming clearer every day - so maybe it isn't so very surprising after all?

At least you now know why he was never prepared to formalize your relationship under UK law ... just think how much worse it could have been if you'd actually done that and you'd had to pay for a divorce!!

Lweji · 03/05/2014 14:58

Over the Internet?

What on earth is he getting from her and how could she get your work number?

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