What kind of relationship is this?

[annaomar]

I met my DH four years ago. He is Arabic, I am English. I do love him very much and he says he loves me but I think actions speak louder than words....... We married after about 6 months. We have never lived together - I see him, always at his home 2 or 3 times a week. Saturdays I sleep at his and maybe once a month during the week. He has always been more interested in his friends than in me - I assume this is an Arab man thing. He goes out to meet them to drink tea, play billiards, smoke shisha etc. he never tells me where he goes and he gets angry if I ask. I don't entirely trust him regarding other women - I don't have evidence, just a strong feeling which he laughs at. He stays up late and sleeps late so even on our days together we rarely go anywhere or do anything together. I often think he treats me with a sort of contempt but I also feel like I've lost perspective and don't know if I'm being over sensitive. I earn more than him and give him money - although what he does with it I don't know and he gets angry if I ask him. When we are together he is very loving - he gives me lots of hugs & kisses and he is very good at spotting if I've been upset by someone or had a bad day, so he's obviously paying attention somewhere along the line. At the same time though the relationship seems to be driven by what he wants. I spend lots of time thinking I should leave but I don't want to hurt him.

Im having to post with my posts in two parts for some reason.

I think what Anna perhaps doesn't understand is that in the Arab world people can and do get married without there being any love between them, they do it expecting love to grow. So for this bloke to have married Anna without loving her is possible, he would not have to have had an ulterior motive, but I do think its very highly likely that she has been played by this particular person. Even their ages dont add up, they're both in their 40's and to be quite frank thats getting on a bit for a woman in the minds of a lot of the dafter buggers from this part of the world and whilst it's a very normal match in the West, its just not sitting easy with me as regards to Anna and blokie. The dynamics are all wrong.

Anyway, regardless of what we think I very much doubt its making any impact on Anna. She's not at the stage yet where she can take it on board.

Oh dear, anna.

You are not happy with this setup, with good reason. So, irregardless of how charming he is, you must end it.

Why waste more time?!

Yes but Caitlin there is always an ulterior motive for an Arab to marry someone they don't yet love, and may never love. Sometimes it's family connections and social politics (or actual politics), keeping money and power within the family (marrying first cousins) financial gain, forging and strengthening business connections, or just that the parents feel it will be good and happy match.

None of those traditional reasons apply in this case.

I still want her to say how come she ended up 'married' to him so quickly, and what his reasoning was for doing that but not making it legal.

There is an awful lot our op is missing out in this story.

The cafe has nothing to do with homosexuality. The guy may not be gay to be fair, he may just far prefer socialising with his business partner and other Arab men to his 'wife'.
What's obvious though is that he doesn't see the OP as his wife in any respect. I've lived in a (nikah) marriage with a Muslim man and although he had his omg so annoying quirks due to his cultural background he treated me as his wife. This isn't normal from a cultural perspective. Sure, the wife might be at home doing all the grunt work while the husband socialises until 1am at shisha cafés, but it would be their shared home. His income should pay the bills we never quite worked that one out though of their shared home. The wife may work and contribute to the home (the idea that she keeps all her earnings is a bit old fashioned especially in countries where the cost of living can require two incomes for a decent standard) but she certainly shouldn't keep him.
OP, you have a boyfriend, who takes money from you and lies about where he goes and who he sees, who compartmentalises you, doesn't see you as important and pivotal to his life, and who will never give you any greater commitment than this. I can't for the life of me see why he married you but to be honest, I'd forget you are even married because calling it a marriage is just muddying the water and giving it a legitimacy or importance that it doesn't have.

What's the link with homosexuality ? Is there one?

AF, I wasn't thinking about the café when I diagnosed a complete stranger via the internet as possibly gay

I was thinking about his separate life, his tolerance and even apparent liking for the OP (gay men often really like women), but his real submersion in a very male society. And all the things that the OP says in her very first post. It was that information I was using.

I think the OP is obviously very caring and also very dutiful and trying to do the right thing. She sounds like a very nice woman.

And it's dutiful, responsible, caring nice women who can get screwed around by less than open, disingenuous exploitative men.

OP, I don't think you have ANY responsibility towards this man, apart from your own feelings. Your feelings clearly aren't reciprocated, and you are being exploited in an entirely immoral way -- by a vile hypocrite who uses his religion to exploit you (but it's a religion that can be pretty patriarchal & masculinist a lot of the time anyway). You should walk away; I hope you can deal with your feelings and do so. You deserve so much better

Good luck!

this isn't much of a relationship is it?

do you think you'll feel guilty if you leave him? like you're letting him down? you're not responsible for his past and you can't 'fix' him.

is this what you want for the rest of your life?

as for hiring a pi or finding out what he's doing, does it matter? he doesn't treat you with respect, doesn't listen to your opinions, isn't accountable to you. he keeps you sweet, yes. that's about all i can see really.

you know the answer. when he calls you say 'it's over. don't contact me again.' block his number. it IS as easy as that.

Whether he's gay or not, is a red herring here. What matters is that the marriage is an actual sham on his part and he's only sucking money out of you.

As for his age, it's quite likely that he is already married from his early twenties. Unless he's been jumping places every year since his youth it's very likely that he married at least once during his life. And you are just someone he leans on while in the UK. And who was quickly dumped for a friend, but not completely dumped as you are a source of income.

Get away.

Anna, when I first read this thread I didn't know whether or not to believe what you'd written.

I think now, as I've read down through some of the comments two things are clear a) you are besotted/in love with/under the spell of your husband and b) you know this relationship isn't good enough for you.

It's virtually impossible to fall out of love using rational thought only. You must seek counselling or psychotherapy to help you come to a true realisation of what is truly best for you.

You're almost there you just need to get over the last hurdle. My thoughts are with you! You know deep down that so much of what you're reading here is right!

Take care & good luck!!

When I'm trying to fall out of love with someone (unfortunately that seems to be a bit of a theme) I write lists. One side good things about them, other side bad things. It might not stop the feelings but if you keep reading it, something rational eventually takes over. Eventually.

Anna, my dad is an Arab and I can assure you his marriage to my mum - or indeed the marriages of my uncles to their wives - is nothing like the one you've described. I'm afraid an arsehole is an arsehole whatever their culture love. Wishing you all the best of luck getting away, you deserve so much more

Eddie I agree that it totally doesn't matter what he's doing - she already knows he's not treating her in a way she should be entitled to expect. But in the same way that others on this thread have felt going to a mosque for some guidance might give her some well needed clarity and perspective, I feel using a PI might do the same.

I think she is probably NEVER going to snap out of this quite unbelievable state of denial that she's in, until she comes face to face with some actual proof of his wrongdoing that she absolutely cannot ignore or try in her slightly deranged way to minimise/justify, in order to avoid facing up to the truth.

I was listening to an Alicia Keys song this morning while I was running and a line in it I've heard a dozen times before but never really notices, suddenly made me think of the OP.

It said:

And the day came
When the risk it took
To remain tight and closed in the bud
Was more painful
Than the risk it took bloom

This is the element of freedom

Come on Anna. You can do it. Start living the life you deserve.

How you doing anna. Has he been in contact ?

When he calls it is to say hello , I miss you, how are you.

Really? But not enough to bother living with you, clearly.

I suspect when he calls to say he misses you, he also says 'Please come around darling, I really need a cuddle, oh and by the way - bring some cash.'

Really anna reading back through this thread is incredibly frustrating, to the point of my wondering if you and your situation are real.

We talk about him offering you some crumbs, but you are doing a great job of offering us a few measly crumbs yourself. People are investing their time, their wisdom, their advice and their experience (sometimes gained as a result of similar treatment) and you are completely avoiding some of the really important questions you've been asked. If you want help to unravel this, the help is here. But stop closing down and ignoring/evading things you don't want to answer because they are awkward. It's not helping and eventually it is going to piss people off.

I think you know there was something dodgy about the circumstances in which you married, and I think you know that he was never going to offer you any more than this - perhaps because you know that he is either gay, or already married, or that there is some other huge obstacle in your way.

But you went along with it anyway hoping there would eventually be more in it for you. And now you are pretending you expected a normal marriage when the truth is you never did.

You see, I have to draw that conclusion, because on the face of it you don't seem dim, or vulnerable, as it was put upthread, but yet everything you have said so far would imply that you either are extremely vulnerable, to the point of having LDs that impair your ability to understand what is happening to you, (unlikely I'd say) or you are not being entirely honest with us.

I haven't heard from him and I haven' t contacted him.

anna, could you answer some of the very important questions on your thread please, love ?

Is that it?!

For how many days? Would you usually have contacted him by now? Is it usually you that contacts him first? Do you usually phone him every day? And if you didn't, how long do you think he would let it go before he rang you?

I haven't heard from him and I haven' t contacted him

That's strong & brave of you. It's tough, disconnecting from someone you love. Hope it gets better for you. You deserve so much more.

I give it till tomorrow, and he'll be after some cash for the weekend.

I think there is lots more that Anna could say, but she is holding back...probably because she feels foolish and that she would be faced with loads of incredulous responses. But Anna you needed to canvas outside opinions...you do seem to be holding back a lot though.
Good that you have not contacted him though...his actions can tell you plenty if you keep a step back to get that perspective that you seem to have lost.

Anna.

Your name translates as I am Omar.

You are not, you don't 'belong' to him and he is unworthy of you. he is failing you in every aspect of a human being and as a husband. He's not being an overly good muslim either for that matter, but that's unimportant.

Your goal here is to see that there is no future in this relationship. it wasn't real at the beginning and whatever he wanted from you, he has 'got' and has now stopped trying to please you in order to achieve his objective.

When you can see what EVERYONE here can see; that he's NOT your H and he's a rubbish partner, for a HUGE range of reasons and that he will never, ever get any better, only worse, then you will be able to start
improving your life.

he won't like it, these men never do, and he'll never acknowledge he has ever done anything wrong (unless it means you fall back in line, but it'll be a pack of lies designed for that purpose)

this man is abusive, he is that way because he chooses to be. Ok so he may have been raised to be like that, but he's come here and learned NOTHING. He won't change because he doesn't want to, and it doesn't suit him.

he has married you for money and that is all there is to it.

NONE Of this is a 'proof' that you are defective in any way, it's not about you at all. if it wasn't you, it would be someone else, anyone else. you are merely the one who's paying him now. when you go, he will find another. and another and another.

he won't treat you any better than anyone else just because you are nice to him. he will see that inch you give him and take 100 miles more. it's all about him, you see?

You didn't cause this, you can't change it, it's his life, his choices. The only thing you have control over is the fact that you can STOP paying him money, you can stop allowing him to treat you like this and you can see how bloody wonderful real men, real life really is.

don't waste one more second on this man. The gravy train has ended, he doesn't even deserve an explanation from you.

just leave his life.

We will be here for as long as you need us to be to help you through this, and in a couple of days or so, you will start to feel that the weight of having him in your life start to lift.

meant to add, you are NOT foolish, not at all.

You trusted someone. you thought you knew that if you were nice to him, he'd be nice to you. sadly you have met a nasty manipulative person who has taken advantage of your good nature.

Trusting someone is not foolish. you gave him a chance to be a decent human being. he failed. He can't be that decent person, because he wasn't one to begin with.

most of these people with the sad stories have crafted them carefully. You said yourself that his story slips. he's a liar.

I lived in Egypt for 3 miserable, godforsaken years. Without exception, on the rare occasions that I was allowed out to meet people, they ALL came at me with a sad story and an outstretched palm. those that were invited to our house stole from us or came up with a sad story immediately we'd got past the introdcutions. I had to change my mobile number twice, as it was guess dialled by young men who then bombarded the 'inglesaya' with calls to try to get her to take them to her country. My Ex would have upwards of 40 calls from 'relatives' of his asking/demanding money.

We can't apply OUR 'rules' to all nations. we are lucky to live here, and should be taught the value of our society.

I think your background may have set you up for this somehow, as your self esteem seems on the floor. If that's the case, when you have ditched this lump from your life, and we've got you through that, then you can check in to Stately Homes thread here and we'll sort you out!

You are not alone here. you are not the first to have fallen victim to a man like this, and sadly won't be the last. You can stop this mess in your life today. I promise you that you won't ever regret it.

keep posting, PM me if you want/need to?

I don't think there was anything dodgy about the way I got married. I met him, fell in love and when he said he wanted marriage I was happy. For many Arabs/Pakistanis and other Muslims, boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are not acceptable so even a 6 month relationship is too long. Why didn't we have a "legal" ceremony? Well, I' don't know if H actually knows such things exist. The arabic marriages that I know of are all religious, not what we call "legal" . In their eyes the Nikah is what is important and is what legitimises things. ( And I do know arabic women that I talk to about these things). Maybe I was naive but I wanted H to feel comfortable about our relationship and Nikah was what was important for him. I am not Muslim but I believe in God. The God of Abraham & Moses is the God of Jesus and Mohammed so to make vows before God in a mosque are still vows before God. I can't see what is dodgy about that.

In the beginning we were like all couples - we went on dates, talked about our plans for the future, talked about travelling together, what our life would be like. It all changed slowly over time - we looked at a few flats together but H always had reasons why they wouldn't suit us and gradually I came to think we would never live together - not full time at any rate. Do you think that if H and I had been like this in the beginning I would have agreed to any kind of marriage?
I'm sorry if I give the impression that I have LDs of some kind. I am highly educated, to PhD level, work in a very responsible job and run a part-time business. Too trusting, too naive, too willing to see the best side of people? I put my hand up to all those things.

Brilliant post, Hissy - especially "he'll never acknowledge he has ever done anything wrong"

It's clear that Anna is well intentioned and I worry that somehow, she'll want to hear "it's not you, it's me" before she'll give up on him. Trouble is, it's not going to happen; as I know to my cost, with abusive men it's NEVER their fault and this one seems as abusive as they come

So after you looked at a few flats, why did you stop there? Most married or nearly married couples would keep looking till they found somewhere they could both live. At what point did he (I presume it was he) decide you were going to stop looking for flats to live together as a normal couple would?