my poor dd

[sosadfordd]

oh dear, what can I do.
my poor dd lives abroad, she desperately wants to come back "home" but has nowhere to go.

she is 51 years old, penniless (victim of serious abuse from ex husband, emotional , physical and financial)
she has nowhere to go except to come back to me.
we- dh ( stepfather -and myself- have a large house, mortgage free, and could help her.

but, my dh refuses to allow her to stay with us until she can "sort herself out"
I feel as though I support dh, financially,-it is my house- yet can't help my dd in her time of need.
I know I should simply say, she is coming to stay with us, but the fallout will be tremendous for us all.
my head is spinning.
we are both senior citizens, but fit and healthy, with not a care in the world, but my heart breaks for dd.
please help anyone.

The bottom line is that she is homesick, alone, and desperate to come home, somehow

I fully understand about her feeling "down" but you also insisted that she's "very resourceful." Can I ask then, apart from the caravan, what actual steps has she taken - or even just looked into properly - towards being able to return? Come to that, what has she done to improve her social situation where she is?

I'm just worried that she could (as you said yourself) come over, use up all your resources both financial and emotional, then just clear off again

Where does she live where it is -32?

well, no actual steps taken as yet, more a jerk reaction that "she wants to come back home".
it's true, she may be desperate to come home,
but i'm concerned that dd may come,
stay with me, then go back again, the same as last time, leaving a trail of debt behind.
she does have a job and home abroad,(forget negative equity), so by coming over to "try to sort something out/set herself up, may just be a want, rather than realistic goal.
I don't need to book a flight asap, as I know the lovely home she has there, and how she lives, having rushed there myself multiple times.

no, there isn't an age limit on caring for a child, however old, it's just that dd's return to the uk, must be planned,(by her) and financed too.

I know she wants/needs to come back once and for all, but I am too old to become involved/organise/finance it
.i can offer advice and support,
but not much else.

...well, no actual steps taken as yet, more a jerk reaction that "she wants to come back home"

In that case surely you'd be very wise to limit the involvement to what you can afford - in every way - and no more. Anything else could, quite frankly, be disastrous and you've said yourself what the outcome might well be, especially given the history of you picking up the pieces ...

...no actual steps taken as yet, more a jerk reaction that "she wants to come back home"

I think that is more a way to express a state of mind than a desire for a specific outcome.

I have lived abroad miles from family and have gone through very tough times -- the desire to 'go home' was very strong occasionally. It wasn't an outcome that was practical, feasible, or in my case legal as the DCs couldn't be taken out of the country without exH's consent. What I really wanted was for someone to give me a break when life was too relentlessly in my face, and problems seemed insurmountable.

OP you know what? You're just too old for this. Make a strong decision that you're going to step back from this for once and for all. I suspect you're downplaying all the shit this woman has dumped on you over the years just so you can steel yourself to risk all that again.

There's a limit to the number of bad choices by children that a parent should support and you are way over that limit.

Enjoy your retirement. Moving her into your house is not the right thing to do. She's 51 and if she's as resourceful as you say, she'll work it out.

thank you, yes, it's just too much now.
each time, I have ended up having to pay debts dd has left ,from my pension.
yes,
she has a house/job ,
it's just in the wrong country for her.

if she flies away back to the uk, no house/job, no nothing.

I am devastated for her, but,
yes,
all her life choices have ended up being destructive for her.
she never listened to any advice.

she even "accepted" her abusive, dangerous, ex's debts against her house that I paid for, resulting in the negative equity.
thank you mathanxiety, it is a state of mind, to be sure,
she cries when we Skype, saying she wants to come home , but it is true, it simply just isn't feasible.
yes,
she feels her issues are insurmountable, realistically they are.

There’s a limit to the number of bad choices by children that a parent should support, and you are way over that limit

This is definitely the best piece of advice so far!

she feels her issues are insurmountable, realistically they are.

Her issues are not insurmountable, not at all, but if she perceives they are, she won't move ahead.

She needs to see the positives (ie a property that will probably come around, qualifications that should enable her to get something, her health etc.). She has to quit with the pity party. You have to stop listening to the pity party.

This woman has nearly broken you. You don't have to leave her life, just don't take her life on. You gave her opportunities when she was younger to educate herself and so on. You really don't have to do any more OP.

That's the beauty of Mumsnet, sosadfordd - the wonderful support posters offer. Also I know it's not easy to step back; she's your much loved daughter after all

But I worry that after your previous help, and since you say she won't listen, she'll ramp up the emotional pressure if you waver even slightly. Can I suggest that if this happens, you simply ask and go on asking what she's done about it?

It doesn't have to be said nastily, a caring tone can be just as good - but somehow you've got to withdraw a bit and get yourself out of the position of being seen as the answer to every problem

There's a limit to the number of bad choices by children that a parent should support

^^ A sentence full of sheer common sense

Yes, it's true,

Her issues aren't insurmountable.
Where she is now, she has a roof over her head/food/car , which could go on indefinitely.

Yes, it's true,

She is a highly educated women(51), yet through bad life choices,(total emotional, physical, financial abuse for years from exh,) has left her in the state she is now.-no career, or future real earning potential

Yes, it's true,

Eventually her property will realise a proportion of equity, but as dd said it could take years.

Yes, it's true,

This is finally the time that the poor/bad/destructive choices are coming home to roost.

Yes, it's true,

I love her dearly, and it's heart breaking to see and hear her sobbing on Skype, desperate to come home.
Also true, that short of winning the lottery, which would enable me to buy her a small home in the uk, there is nothing I can do to help my dd.

Yes, it's true,

dd is in a bad way, but you know what, I don't feel guilty that "it's my fault".
When the abuse began, many years ago, actually on her honeymoon, then frequently and directly in front of me, I offered her safety and escape, but his control and threats(to kill her) left her afraid to leave.
He refused to work,(narcissist, too important, elevated self importance) leaving her to support everything,
She even refused contact with me on and off for years, as she had to "comply" with his demands.

SO, AT LEAST, IF ANYONE READING THIS IS BEING CONTROLLED/ABUSED/BEING ISOLATED FROM FAMILY OR FRIENDS , EITHER PHYSICALLY, EMOTIONALLY OR FINANCIALLY BY YOUR PARTNER, GET OUT AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
IT WILL ONLY END WHEN THE ABUSER DECIDES IT CAN, OR WHEN YOU ARE ON YOUR KNEES, AND HALF YOUR LIFE HAS BEEN SPENT IN FEAR AND DESPERATION.
Thank you mumsnet, this has been so therapeutic for me, I can see some of the wood now, through the trees.

Can you turn things back to her when she says these things.

For example her house being in negative equity, and will take years to get back what she has spent on it - ask her if she could rent it out to cover the cost of the mortgage and for her to move into a smaller one room apartment or could she get lodgers to help to cover costs.

She is a highly educated women(51), yet through bad life choices,(total emotional, physical, financial abuse for years from exh,) has left her in the state she is now.-no career, or future real earning potential but she can earn enough to cover her monthly bills, then thats all thats important not making loads of money.

I mean make it so she has to think about how she can change her life. You have tried at least twice and she is still the same. Expecting you to make her life better, but you can't it has to come from her.

So feel for you OP - your DD is my age, and I'm looking after my DM now - although I'll always be her 'little girl' - not the other way round. Hope life gets easier before too long.

You see, aj has it right. Your dd should be able to look after you if needs be as you should really be past the point of having to look after her all the time. I don't want to be all one foot in the grave at all, but at this life stage you deserve peace and tranquility, at least in the emotional sense and not having to clear up after your daughter who should really know better?

dd is in a bad way, but you know what, I don't feel guilty that "it's my fault"

Then in many ways you're halfway there

Just put the onus onto her whenever you can and you'll get over this yet ...

OP - just delurked to offer a bit of advice although it seems by your last post, you are sorting this out in your head through chatting away with MN.

Firstly, you have done more than enough to help your DD. It doesn't matter how old she is though, she will always be your child and it is normal you want to do everything in your power to make her happy.

However, I am wondering if you are the only person she is continually off loading to, therefore, you are taking the full brunt of her unhappiness. My DD always offloads and moans to me but apparently as soon as the call is disconnected, she is happy until the next call. I don't get so many calls when everything is going ok, but she is half the age of your DD and is starting out in life on her own.

I think that you should try and step back just a bit and see if your DD can sort this out herself, she is a lawyer and is obviously very capable. Offer her emotional help but reiterate that you can't help financially as your funds are low. I am not a counsellor but somehow I think from what you have written and by the reaction of your DH, you have bailed her out too many times - she might need to do this one on her own.

Have you considered offering her a return airfare to come and spend three weeks with you so she can look for jobs, see an agency etc?

true,
I am the only one she can offload on, her father is totally indifferent, always has been, moved abroad years ago, simply doesn't bother, since the day she was born.
once dd has spoken to me, she will email saying thank you , and carries on.
sadly, she isn't a lawyer now, and cannot practise again, (result of abuse).
also, I could pay for her return airfare, for dd to evaluate her possibilities in the uk, although this can easily de achieved via the internet.
as she says, even if she turns up with just a suitcase (sigh, not again) finding somewhere to live and employment could be a financial strain (on me)

I think you need to make very clear that although you love her very much there is no way you can support her financially. And if she wants to come back them she needs to have the means to live here until she can get a job.

It's not about putting barriers in her way it's about making sure she is supporting herself and not expecting you to do it.

OP - so you said that she could search for a new job in the UK over the internet, so maybe you could suggest she does this and then take it from there? As you say, if she turns up (again) without anything in the pipeline, then the financial strain falls on you and your DH yet again.

Once she has a job, then it is her responsibility to let out her home and think about renting a place near her new work. It is possible that she can rent a room to begin with and may not need a huge deposit for this. One step at a time.
It is so hard on you as you must be all consumed by this.

Just to let you know OP, I have been in the same situation as your daughter - I had an abusive marriage abroad and twice went back to my DH with a child. I ended up leaving within hours the last time, each time my DM met me at Heathrow and took me to her home. She was widowed and living alone so there was no complication of a step father, like your DD. The last time I bought a newspaper on the way back from the airport, found a job, applied, got it. Rented a small cottage with my little DD, everything then fell into place. She never helped me financially, just put me up for a few months until I was on my feet. That was almost 20 years ago now. It is possible that your DD can pull herself out of this but she needs to lead it.

What are the details of the situation where she can't practice again as a lawyer?

Is she currently working in any job?

Is she in contact with a women's shelter where she could have counselling or therapy? She sounds as if she is in dire need of help that focuses directly on the after effects of abuse (which by the sound of it was comprehensive and severe).

I do not think anyone should resent it when a loved one doesn't take advice in a situation of abuse, frustrating though it is to see it all and have the person you love refuse to be helped. Part of the dynamic of abuse involves psychological control and constant stress on one's emotions and mental state. The aim of abuse is always to limit the victim's options to living completely under the thumb of the abuser -- her ex seems to have managed this perfectly. It takes a lot of time and counselling/therapy to reverse what an abuser does.

I'd be very, very careful about the idea of sending her a return airfare - if you make it too easy she'll no doubt be on the first flight to offload onto you yet again. Once she's here and facing you it will be much harder to keep your distance in more ways than the obvious one

Personally I'd want to know that she'd put some plans in place (and if necessary ask for proof of these) before making ANY more financial contributions

thank you.

my dh isn't actually a complication,(bethgolightly, no offence taken) just that with all the years of misery re dd's abuse I ended up having a stroke, he was the only one who helped me recover, any myself of course, plus the aftermath of each explosion from dd.

I mentioned that she could rent a room quite easily, but she said after all the years working ,she would feel a total failure.

Yes, dd is working and financially supporting herself, always has done.

(mathanxiety)
Oh no, dd and I have discussed and resolved the past, sadly she still holds guilt from her past behaviour towards myself and dh, we have reassured her that we totally understand, and have forgiven her completely.
But, the next step forward?

I mentioned that she could rent a room quite easily, but she said after all the years working ,she would feel a total failure

Okay, so that's how she would feel - now how about what you're feeling with all the stress she's caused and is still causing?

You mention that she still has guilt over her past behaviour towards you; if this is true then I'm quite sure she'll avoid burdening you with issues she could address herself, and take the steps needed to do this

I'm truly sorry but I'm afraid that anything else would seem to be just empty words on her part