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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would you ever go back to someone who....

136 replies

curiousgeorgie · 23/02/2014 23:39

Held you down in bed and poured water all over your face?

My very close friend did this to his gf this morning and (of course!) she has walked out..

She is absolutely amazing. Takes care of his kids more than he does, embraced us all as family, is generally fantastic and we love her.

He wants her back... Is devastated and seems sorry. We're advising him massive apologies and much grovelling... It's a lost cause right?

OP posts:
pictish · 24/02/2014 10:27

Lucy that at least could well be true.

Lweji · 24/02/2014 10:27

And Lucy you should apologise here for not condoning abuse.
Abuse and domestic violence are not a problem between a couple for them to sort out. It's a problem of the society and it is a problem of child protection too. They are affected by it.
Thankfully I live in a country that recognises it, and where the OP could have gone to the police to report this crime.

pictish · 24/02/2014 10:28

I agree with you too lweji.

Lweji · 24/02/2014 10:32

Sorry, it should have said: And Lucy you should apologise here for condoning abuse. (not condemning abuse)

LucyLasticBand · 24/02/2014 10:33

you did Confused

gamerchick · 24/02/2014 10:45

I think OP you may not have the full story.. your friend has probably been a knob to her for a while has pushed things further and she's had enough.

He got to you first to get your support. If you want to stay friends I'd advise you stay well out of it. But your friend is not what he seems and needs ditching personally.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone · 24/02/2014 10:46

OP, if you are still reading - your 'friend of 30 years' is a nasty abusive shit.

Hopefully this incident has opened your eyes to that and I hope you vote with your feet.

Every nasty piece of work has people that have known them for 30 years. Makes no difference.

You know the saying 'You never know what's happening behind closed doors'? Well now you do.

If you're a decent person, you'll be strenuously encouraging your friend's ex-gf to stay WELL away from him. I hope you do this, I think that hearing it from a longstanding friend of his will help validate her very brave action in getting the hell out.

Nasty, nasty man.

pictish · 24/02/2014 11:00

Abusive men are often viewed as being very likeable elsewhere. Friends, family, colleagues, neighbours...all those people are presented with a very different person than that which they become at home when the front door is closed.

It is common for abused spouses to be treated with suspicion and thought of as exaggerating, creating drama and overreacting by others. They are encouraged to forgive, and 'sort it out', because those well meaning people have never witnessed the personality she has privayely been party to. They think it's 'just a blip' or 'one of those things'. As Lucy so finely demonstrates here..."all couples row". Hmm

People don't want to believe that the person they thought they knew so well, had such a rounded, experienced opinon of, is actually a nasty piece of work. It messes with their comfortable reality, and it is a natural reaction to want to minimise and justify, in hearing things about a person they rate, that aren't synonymous with their own picture of them.

"You can see how sorry he is"
"Oh but he's so upset about it"
"I know he loves her"
etc etc

Judge a person not by what they say but by what they do. That's all I can say.

pictish · 24/02/2014 11:02

Every nasty piece of work has people that have known them for 30 years. Makes no difference.

Yes...I quite agree.

CarryOnDancing · 24/02/2014 11:05

OP I guarantee that the shock of discovering her OH is an abusive prick is worse for the poor woman than you.
I'm not going to flame you because you too were in shock and trying to deal with the hysteria.
I'm not entirely sure why other posters think you shouldn't have called her with him there. I imagine you wanted to make sure she was ok? However you did need to tell her she has your full support-and mean it!

She needs to be allowed to be work this out without feeling you are playing peacekeeper though as that will just encourage her to minimise what's happened.
There is nothing good left for you with regards to this male friend. 30 years or 3 months, you've discovered his true colours. You may be happy to keep your relationship with him but his gf should be actively encouraged not to...by you.

In your shoes I'd be telling my male friend that I would be telling his gf to run for the hills as she shouldn't be subjected to his issues just because it's what he wants and is more convenient for the group dynamics. Then he can chose how to deal with your relationship.
Ultimately I think you will have to chose between them though.

You do deserve some harsh words for saying he isn't abusive though. He absolutely most definitely is. How else can his actions be summed up? He abused her trust and her right not to be hurt and feel threatened.

Cunty...please retract your apology to Lucy. Someone needed to highlight her stupidity.

Lucy, there really is little point in wasting people's time writing posts that support abuse. I am genuinely gobsmacked that any normal person would think this wasn't abusive behaviour because it was water!??! That takes ridiculous to whole new level.

TheOrchardKeeper · 24/02/2014 11:09

It was purposely intimidating behavior from a man who already treats her with disrespect/as a babysitter who should not have dared to step out of line.

Abusive men aren't all red-faced steam-out-of-the-ears types. They're actually often very good at seeming anything but.

Poor woman, and thank god she's left the fucker.

LucyLasticBand · 24/02/2014 11:10

wehre did i support abuse?
we dont know what went on in their house.
the woman has not come on here at all.

we only have a friend of the man.

dont get inovlved was my advice.
dont turn on me for giving advice.

pictish · 24/02/2014 11:12

Abusive men aren't all red-faced steam-out-of-the-ears types. They're actually often very good at seeming anything but.

Yes indeed.

Covalone78 · 24/02/2014 12:05

OP - Bear this in mind (taken from the top of this forum.

"Mumsnetters don't necessarily have the qualifications or experience to offer relationships counselling"

I've not come across a more applicable thread

From what I've read you've been on the receiving-end of, read a half-story assume the worst and commence "keyboard warrioring".

Don't blame you for not coming back on

Lweji · 24/02/2014 12:10

Lucy

He admitted to pinning her down and pouring water on her face.
The OP didn't say he mentioned that she had attacked him first or anything like that.

I'm sure there's more he left out.

If we have the attacker's side of the story, you can safely presume that it wasn't less than what he said.

Lweji · 24/02/2014 12:14

I'll give you an example. My exH has to this day denied to his son what his son saw him doing to me.
Whatever he has admitted to his family, and anywhere, is the bare minimum.

Anonynonny · 24/02/2014 12:32

Lucy, we do know what went on in his house.

He subjected his gf to an assault which as other people have said, is actually a criminal matter. The victim would have been well within her rights to call the police and report this assault.

Thing is, I don't blame the OP for not recognising abuse. Like Lucy, most of us are socialised to minimise it and explain it away, particularly when it's carried out by people we like and have a good relationship with. I could never understand how it was my father had any friends, but of course he had them because he didn't behave in the violent entitled way with them, that he did with his own family - if he had, he wouldn't of course, have had any friends. He was nothing but charming, witty, helpful and kind to his friends and work colleagues. It was only his wife and children who saw the violent, vicious bully he was behind closed doors. Of course the OP thinks her friend is a nice, non-abusive man - which of us would voluntarily be friends with people we think are abusive? It's a huge shock to her to find out that her mate, who she's respected and esteemed all these years, is actually one of those men. Horrible and although obviously I agree that her response was wrong, I don't blame her for it and I feel sorry for her -she's also got a lot of coming to terms to do with the discovery that her friend is actually an abusive shit when she's never even suspected such a thing before.

Those of you who are minimising this because it's only a bit of water: this is how more serious domestic violence starts. It starts with an "accidental" shove, push etc., then moves on to harder pushes, deliberate man-handling, incidents like this, before it's the full fist in the face. What is important about this is not the water itself; it's the mind set behind it, the mindset of a man who doesn't have any respect for the woman he lives with and will use violence if he thinks he can get away with it, in order to exert power and control. That's why people are being so angry with you, because they know more about DV than you do and perhaps some of them have forgotten that we are all socialised not to recognise the clear signs of domestic abuse.

The gf has drawn a line and shown him he can't get away with it; please OP, don't undermine her, don't make her second guess herself; she'll be wondering if she's over-reacted, she'll be thinking about all the good times they had, wondering if his grovelling means he'll never do it again - she too, has swum in the same waters of denial and minimisation all of us have; she is very vulnerable to being told that she shouldn't walk out on this relationship. What is crystal clear to anyone with any knowledge of DV though, is that she absolutely should walk out on it, for her own sake. If she goes back to him after this, she is showing him that she will tolerate abuse. If you act as the minimiser and the friend who brings them back together, what you do is ensure that she knows that when he starts hitting her in earnest, she can't turn to you for support. Please don't be part of the problem curiousgeorgie, be part of the solution.

Dahlen · 24/02/2014 13:07

I think the OP has left the thread, but if you're reading this curiousgeorgie try not to feel too got at. The thing with abuse is that once you know how it works, you realise that holding someone down and throwing water at them is almost never a one-off incident.

An incident like this will almost certainly have been preceded by some groundwork involving emotional/verbal abuse and possibly even the odd shove or 'accidental' injury. It's important to realise that its highly likely that both your friend and his GF wouldn't recognise these incidents as abusive, instead seeing them - as you have done in isolation and easily explaining them away.

If you accept that your friend's GF is/was in an abusive relationship, even if that abuse had not yet become physical, you will see why some posters are so upset that you are counselling your friend and trying to be supportive while at the same time telling him that you don't condone his behaviour. Saying how much you disapprove of his behaviour while still remaining his friend means that your friend has experienced no real consequences for his behaviour other than the loss of his GF. It's like threatening the naughty step to a child and then not following through - meaningless. To all intents and purposes your friend's life remains unchanged because he hasn't lost anything of great value to him. You don't pour water over someone you love and respect because they haven't got your kids out of bed. That's the behaviour of someone who feels entitled to get another adult servicing their life in the way of a not-very-well-respected employee or slave (although I'm sure that's not how he views it).

If you really care about your friend, actually the kindest thing you could do is make it clear to him that his behaviour is unacceptable, that no woman with an ounce of self respect would consider taking him back so there's no point in even trying, and that you are seriously reconsidering your friendship in light of his behaviour. Only then might he realise how serious his actions are and take the appropriate steps to deal with it.

pettybetty · 27/02/2014 01:10

I haven't been able to get this thread out of my mind since reading it on Sun / Mon, and while I agree with the advise that the bloke is abusive and the girlfriend should be supported, it's upset me how vicious some posters were to the OP.

She didn't do anything wrong, and is probably having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that her long time friend is a POS. Some posters don't seem to realise that there are real people on the other side of the screen with feelings. In the OP, she even asks, 'It's a lost cause, right?' acknowledging how badly her friend behaved and that she didn't think there was any way back. That doesn't look to me like she was condoning it at all.

On a slight tangent, I have been attacked and had to name change after phrasing something badly on a thread which attracted the ire of the same bunch of posters. I have suffered abuse before, and you lot don't realise that sometimes posters (like me) may have skewed ideas about abuse precisely because we have lived in abusive situations before.

Therefore some behaviours that automatically outrage you (the core group of vituperative posters) seem more normal to us because we have had to normalise it to be able to live through it. It really hurt me to have so many posters attacking me and I was down for weeks about it, and it upsets me to see it happening to others, especially those with good intentions like the OP.

Do you think if I went to a therapist, it would be helpful if they shouted at me, bullied or attacked me to show me how my ideas were wrong, or would it be better if they explained the consequences for certain behaviours.

You actually have really good advise to give, but do you have to give it so nastily? Can you not recognise that she is a victim too, and have a bit of compassion for her? You chased her away, when by just kindly explaining that her abusive friend was just trying to get her on his side and that she should ignore his manipulating apologies and hysterics, you would have helped both the OP and indirectly the abused girlfriend, as the OP would be better informed and able to support her.

pettybetty · 27/02/2014 01:12

Can't believe my "advice"s have somehow converted to "advise"s I do know the difference Blush

talullah57 · 27/02/2014 01:31

No point screaming. You're wasting your voice box. Poor girl needs to get OUT. How dare he abuse her like that?

Allofaflumble · 27/02/2014 07:53

I can't believe the way this poor OP has been harangued for asking for advice for whatwas a confusing and distressing situation! According to one poster she deserves the harsh comments!! WTF. How ironic that the post was about abuse and she found herself on the end of it.

Follyfoot · 27/02/2014 07:59

Do you really not get it Allof? He has abused his partner in a truly horrible way. The OP told him to apologise and grovel in the hope of getting the partner to return to him.

Actually she should have told him to go and get some professional help for his actions. Then, if she is friends with the victim, she should have offered her support. And never let the abuser into their house again.

VeryStressedMum · 27/02/2014 08:04

You say she's the best person you've ever known him with, but HE is not the best person for HER to be with.

Allofaflumble · 27/02/2014 08:10

No I don't get it. There are ways of giving advice and condemning her in such accusatory ways was guaranteed to upset someone who was trying to get sense of a horrible situation. Its not like she did the water boarding!

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