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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you make little daily decisions without controlling or being controlled by a partner?

129 replies

Contemplates · 18/02/2014 22:56

Not huge decisions like where to live or which car to buy, but little things like where to keep the house plants.

I have a problem with my husband always moving things around (and he feels the same way about me).

Today we discussed whether to keep recipe books in the kitchen or the lounge shelves. I've put up with the books in the kitchen for about 2 years and they get used probably annually. But today I moved things off the windowsill and it was so lovely to see some space! When I mentioned the idea of moving the books back to the lounge I got a sharp "no!" and so if I really want to I clearly will have to do it by stealth (he won't bother to change it for a while and might even forget).

But I don't want to control him and don't want to be controlled by him! I just wish he didn't want to live in such a mess and expect me to as well.

Whenever I've talked to him and explained this, he's got a bit huffy and said he shouldn't have to do what I want. I return that idea back at him but he then gets huffy and seems to think its all one sided, and won't look at it reasonably.

So mumsnetters - do you have the same sort if skirmishes over silly little things and how do you decide who fairly 'wins'?

OP posts:
VeryStressedMum · 19/02/2014 11:59

I agree, I work in the home and I need my home to work for me. It's not to say a partner who works out of the home should have no say in what happens in the home but I do think it's strange that op you can't move books or watering cans off a windowsill to a place you think works better for you. I actually think it's strange that your dh cares at all what is on the windowsill but that is probably because my dh doesn't care...

It's all very well he wants the kitchen to look like the garden shed but if you disagree then a compromise should be reached, at the moment there is no attempt at compromise you are doing as he says.

The comment you made about his safe option to me says that he does feel anxiety and by keeping things how he wants them is attempting to feel less anxious, but as offred said he can't micro manage every part of your life to make himself better.

cory · 19/02/2014 12:10

Dh and I both work so we neither of us feels we get the final say in what happens in the home and neither gets to decide on their own what an acceptable level of tidiness looks like (probably just as well as I'm a slob). We get through it by both being fairly laidback, both being willing to compromise and both treating occasional disagreements with good humour. Generally, a compromise would take into account how much it meant for each person. So if one partner was really into cooking and did a lot of it, then his views on the kitchen would be given heavy weight, even if he otherwise worked from home. But it wouldn't be set in stone, we would also both be looking at each other to try to gauge "how much does she care? would she get upset?" A joke goes a long way if it is spoken with warmth.

The problem with this is, it only works if both partners have the same approach. So it's not something you can prescribe for one other person.

And it works better the longer you have been doing it and the more trust capital you have built up (dh and I have been together 30 years with this approach, so we both know that the other isn't trying to undermine us).

Fairylea · 19/02/2014 12:15

I don't think he sounds very nice to be honest.

I really didn't like the part where he booted you out of the bedroom with your prem dc onto an air bed so he could sleep and if you didn't like it basically tough.

I'd take all his shit off the window ledge and throw it in the bin. I really think I would. You say he's not even looked at the books for years. Just say you needed a clear out.

But I know that's hugely antagonistic. I just feel angry for you. He sounds utterly selfish.

Newyearchanger · 19/02/2014 12:23

I was not being serious re dibs for everything in the home... But sadly, speaking from experience, only a VERY assertive approach has a hope in hell of being accepted by such a person.
I am living with clutter I am not allowed to throw away.
I move things in the morning, he moves them back in the evening.
I want changes to the house... He says to the builder not needed.

I can't tell you to LTB just like that as I don't know enough and you are married with a baby, but if you were single I would say run for the hills as I don't think this gets better.

On balance, I would LTB or you will never have your own way again.... What about when it comes to a medical issue, is he in charge of who goes to the Dr as well?
Is he a Dr?

Newyearchanger · 19/02/2014 12:24

Selfish and entitled.

Newyearchanger · 19/02/2014 12:26

I do my own thing, btw, if I want to do something or get something I do it no question I just tell him to lump it.

However it's still annoying because he finds ways to get his own way if he can... his " things" are in the house, mine over the years have ended up in various sheds.

DIYapprentice · 19/02/2014 18:57

The person who has to spend the most time in a space and who is the one who maintains it, gets to choose it.

Pretty simple, basic rule, really.

Your 'D'H sounds like a controlling, selfish git.

happygirl87 · 19/02/2014 19:07

I havent RTFT I'm afraid, but in answer to your original query (apologies if this is no longer relevant)- if we disagree on a decision, even a pretty small one, we look to see if one person's way is more logical (e.g. drawing curtains keeps heat in and reduces energy bills, not just aesthetic) and if neither of us is we decide who cares more. Most things one of us is a bit more relaxed than the other (I need to keep the DVDs in alphabetical order- DP likes all his boxers to line up properly on the drying rack Blush) so the one who cares the least will concede, knowing that the favour will be returned IYSWIM.

wiltingfast · 20/02/2014 07:36

What you describe is definitely not my experience op. Neither of us cares hugely so the small stuff generally just kind of evolves. That said, I tend to be the one that makes the decisions about the home environment.

Tbh what you are describing sounds really ott esp as you are the person at home all day.

If I was in your situation and this was a result of ordinary level thoughtlessness rather than some sort of abuse I would be saying to my dh:

Look, I am in this house all day, it needs to be arranged in a way I am comfortable with because it is my constant environment. You need to leave the house stuff to me. I need this to be happy here at home all day with your children. I realise you may find that unreasonable but I cannot help the way I feel.

You could say then you are starting with the window sill in the kitchen and repeat he needs to let it go and that this is simply something necessary for you to be comfortable in the place you are all the time.

Fgs, if you were at work you would have control over your desk!

Is it just the house and holidays that create issues op or does this go further?

FiscalCliffRocksThisTown · 20/02/2014 07:44

You say he 'd have a hissy fit if you move the cookery books?

You ask him if they can be moved and he says "NO!"

And you you think YOU may be controlling, just for wanting them somewhere else?

You are all muddled up, and no wonder. You are tiptoeing around a difficult arse of a man.

No worries about YOU being the controlling one!

God help you, what a life Sad

GhettoPrincess001 · 20/02/2014 09:08

My recipe books go on the book shelf in the family room (different to the lounge) because they are books.

My husband put them away there, with all the rest of the books. In alphabetical order of course ! It was his chore so I left him to it.

Until the shelf broke. So, finally, he rearranged the books in size order so the bigger heavier books are on the bottom shelf. Yay ! (It was his obsession to have them in alphabetical order rather than size order that broke the shelf.) I don't care. He got the message about size order, rearranged the books. Job done.

Offred · 20/02/2014 11:03

How are you contemplates?

ZorbaTheHoarder · 20/02/2014 11:19

"my family are a forgiving bunch and just laugh at him, saying that he is tired or being a typical man etc."

I think the fact that your family takes this view makes it harder for you to see the wood for the trees.

They do not have to live with your H and experience your daily battles to have your views taken into account at all. I think you are so anxious not to be seen as controlling that you don't feel you have the right to assert yourself at all.

As a result, you must feel very ground down, which I suspect is exactly what your H wants.

Please abandon the idea that this is 'normal'.

See if you can challenge him on his controlling ways, but it sounds as though he does not see you as an equal partner in the relationship. At all.

Olivegirl · 20/02/2014 11:30

Why do you even ASK him where things should go??

My dh does things around the house I'm not bothered about

Just as I have my areas of placing things etc that he wouldn't be bothered about

Finding that happy medium

You can't both be deciding on same small issues constantlyShock

Contemplates · 20/02/2014 15:33

VeryStressedMum Its all very well he wants the kitchen to look like the garden shed but if you disagree then a compromise should be reached, at the moment there is no attempt at compromise you are doing as he says He would probably argue the compromise is that there aren’t bags of manure in the kitchen too!
??
cory we would also both be looking at each other to try to gauge "how much does she care? would she get upset That’s the sort of reasonable way I would want it viewed too, but the trouble is he sees it (or should I say SAYS he sees it) as though “why should she get her own way?”.

Fairylea I don't think he sounds very nice to be honest. ??I really didn't like the part where he booted you out of the bedroom with your prem dc onto an air bed so he could sleep and if you didn't like it basically tough I was SO angry about that I nearly left him over it.

Newyearchanger I am living with clutter I am not allowed to throw away.?I move things in the morning, he moves them back in the evening. That’s the game played here too, which is why I, refusing to play silly games, tried to always talk about it reasonably instead.

DIYapprentice The person who has to spend the most time in a space and who is the one who maintains it, gets to choose it. I do believe in being fair and can’t expect him to come home to a house that grates on him, but I do agree that if it is my work environment then I should have some say it it too. Even if it wasn’t my work environment I’d look for fairness in decision making.

happygirl87 we look to see if one person's way is more logical (e.g. drawing curtains keeps heat in and reduces energy bills, not just aesthetic) and if neither of us is we decide who cares more That logic I have tried to apply, but it comes back to the same problem – he says he shouldn’t have to bend to my every wish. I think the bottom line is that if it isn’t important to him he thinks it shouldn’t be important to me – another EA symptom I realize now!

wiltingfast ?Is it just the house and holidays that create issues op or does this go further? I believe it is over other things too, because, having read the EA article that Offred kindly posted the other day, I realise that when I first moved in with him, he threw loads of my stuff away because it wasn’t important to him. I was in the middle of an MS relapse at the time and didn’t really know what was happening until afterwards, by which time it was too late. Of course, his take on it was that he was helping, but since then when Iv’e been well, he’s tried to do the same and it was only when I threatened to start throwing his things out that he stopped.

FiscalCliffRocksThisTown ?And you you think YOU may be controlling, just for wanting them somewhere else? I did, but since speaking on this thread and reading around the subject, I see it completely differently. Its quite liberating actually.

ZorbaTheHoarder I think the fact that your family takes this view makes it harder for you to see the wood for the trees. I was quite disappointed they were like this, it made me doubt myself for sure. But after reading the article yesterday I realise that it is common for someone who is trying to stick up for themselves to come across as the baddie, even to professionals.??Thanks for confirming this is not normal! You asked why I even ASK him where things should go, its because I know it will get moved back and I will have a hard time over it, and that I will be accused of being controlling. However things are going to be different now because I realise that I am not being controlling at all.

Offred Even if he is behaving like this because he is anxious it isn't acceptable for it to manifest in this way. It is his problem and he cannot impose control on others in order to deal with his anxieties I am beginning to see that now. Up until starting this thread I honestly thought my role is to remain supportive, even to my own detriment, which I realize now is a form of EA.

I am doing so much better thank you! I read so much on the topic of EA and wrote it all out, logging down inch by inch where I feel I am being emotionally abused. It was so liberating! There is something powerful about writing it down, everything seems to click into place and I was making huge sense of where I am at, and what I can do about it. I can’t thank you enough.

Yesterday, between the hours of 12:30 and 4pm, he emotionally abused me 4 times. FOUR TIMES! My eyes were so open to it, and each time it happened I wrote it down and identified in which way it was emotionally abusing. By the 4th incident where I was standing by the door talking to him, and he cut me short, snapping at me “go and put the kettle on then”, I calmly but firmly told him in a level tone to stop being so bossy and if he wants a drink that urgently he can go and make one himself!” He was livid, but made it himself. He then asked for a kiss, but I said I was sorry but I didn’t really feel like kissing him if I was honest. He then said he was sorry for “possibly” being grumpy this afternoon. But I didn’t accept it because I said “possibly” leaves too much room for doubt, which sparked off another argument from him about how I should accept it gratefully! In the end he said he had apologised “tongue in cheek” as the start of an olive branch, but that I should have seen it for what it is, a peace offering. I didn’t accept that blame either, saying that any apology given tongue in cheek doesn’t count to me, and for that matter neither does thinking you can give heartfelt apologies if the behavior continues regardless.

He behaved himself the rest of the day.

OP posts:
Offred · 20/02/2014 15:46

I'm glad this thread has been helpful contemplates! You've come a long way in a short time! I'm glad you are now seeing it for what I think it is and that he is responding well to you not tolerating it.

I wonder, and I know you mentioned his past drinking problem which can be self-medication for anxiety, if this is coming about because he has anxiety. In which case he very definitely will need some treatment, as simply shutting down his maladaptive coping mechanisms; attempts to control you (and control his anxiety) will not help him build positive coping mechanisms. He will instead have no outlet for his feelings.

I would also say that I would be very careful about trying to fix him, as this is not something you can do, it is something he has to do for himself if it is even possible.

Also, I think you should give very serious thought to whether you want to continue in a relationship with him. I'm sure it would be very difficult to go but you may need to in order to protect yourself and the dc from him and there are plenty of ways you could get support with leaving if you decide to.

Offred · 20/02/2014 15:48

I do think people who abuse their partners often have what might be considered 'good excuses' but this is how people get trapped in dangerous (to mental and emotional health as well as physical) relationships because they feel sympathy as well as love and want to help their partner more than they feel they need to help themselves.

Offred · 20/02/2014 15:49

And of course it is never a good excuse really, nothing is, just feels like that when you're in it and often to people around you too.

hellsbellsmelons · 20/02/2014 16:01

Sounds like you were being very measured and assertive with your responses to his last lot of abuse.
So glad your eyes are opening up to what is going on.
Keep challenging him and keep making your plans to do what you want to do and what's best for you and your DC.
Keep notes on everything that is abusive, times and dates.
You sound so much happier already having the realisation that you have.

Contemplates · 20/02/2014 16:07

Offred - I think pure right about anxiety. I had circled that, along with low self confidence, in the EA article introduction where it explains why people emotionally abuse each other.

His Dad is also his role model, which is strange because when I first met him he warned me to pull him up if he was ever like his Dad, as he'd grown up watching his Dad treat his Mum in a chauvinistic way. Then he started copying him and when I pulled him up on it, he seem to have changed his view and was proud of being like his Dad!

His Dad is terribly anxious and you can see he grabs hold of everyone around him in a desperate hope to control his world and feel safer in it, but fails miserably. All to do with anxiety.

But, like his drinking, I know I can't do anything to change him and that if it happens it had to come from him. But I can definitely change how I behave around him and for the moment I will see how that pans out. I watch my dear little 3 year old chatting to his Dad and see how much he misses him when he's at work, and I can't bear the thought of making them part company. I would have had to try everything else first I think. But one day at a time and for the moment I am pleased with my newfound knowledge and the backbone it has given me.

OP posts:
Contemplates · 20/02/2014 16:09

Hellabells - yes it is such a huge relief. I knew I was so against the idea of controlling people as I hate it when people viciously try to control me too, and couldn't see how I was being controlling but didn't under and what was going on instead. It makes perfect sense now Smile

OP posts:
2rebecca · 20/02/2014 16:20

He needs to be able to stop seeing him not getting his own way all the time as him being controlled by you and start seeing it as him making compromises to make the woman he loves happy.
I have 2 bikes "living" in the spare bedroom. Not a situation I'd choose if living alone but my husband really values these 2 bikes and having them snug and cosy makes him happy so I'm happy for them to live there unless we have visitors.
It shouldn't all be about power battles.

wyrdyBird · 20/02/2014 17:30

It IS a relief when you realise it's not you, it's them: and that others have been where you are, and wracked their brains trying to put things right in the same way you have.

Some people do have a powerful need to live in a predictable, controllable environment. It can link to anxiety, and it needn't go hand in hand with unkindness. BUT, when someone is prioritising their wishes and needs over yours, ordering you about like a servant, and bristling at being asked to even consider your needs .. That's emotional abuse. A whole other ball game.

It's a rocky road ahead, contemplates, but as you say - one day at a time!

wiltingfast · 20/02/2014 18:11

I'm so glad this thread has been useful to you contemplates, I really admire they way you've read all the comments so clear eyed and immediately put the best of them to good use!

Good luck to you and your little boy.

Offred · 20/02/2014 19:07

Yes, I think you're amazingly clear thinking. I hope everything works out!