"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

BomBomBom welcome. Your situation sounds very difficult. I never allow my parents to look after my DCs. I'm a lone parent so I end up forking out for childcare but I realised that they haven't changed and treated my kids just like me. It wasn't good for my kids to experience that. It sounds like your Dad is better with your DD than you but this whole situation sounds tricky. What would you like to do if you could? What's the hardest thing about it all?

Goodtobetter hope you got through your busy day with your horrible cold and are about to put your feet up.

Milly I found it easier to avoid family than face difficult questions about my reasons to go nc with my Dad. Great advice from Attilla. Hope the phone call goes ok with your brother. You sound like a lovely sister. It's your decision ultimately not his. He needs to be a brother and friend and not try to mediate/ coerce you into contact. Otherwise he will alienate you and loose your friendship. He's not ready to see, as others have said. You're right, he needs to take a step back. Good luck.

Happy birthday Norrsken! Horrid that they send your DCs Happy Easter cards but you don't exist. You were so wise not to show them. Even if you want nc knowing they don't care is so painful.

Back at work here today.

Hissy your comments last night about the cleaning up exercise made me laugh. I'm rubbish at languages. I'm like Del Boy 'Mangetout Rodney! Mangetout!'

I wondered where Bona Nit came from; its from Catalonia. Home of Barcelona!.

My Italian written language is passable but I will never be fluent. My Dad taught me some basic Spanish words when I was much younger.

Goedenacht as they say in Holland!.

Ooh Talking catalan! How interesting! I remember seeing one of the spanish languages that looked very similar to portuguese, was that it?#ignorant

My portuguese is Brazilian. The accent has meandered a bit, due to having gaúcho friends but is now back to it's original São Paulo

Dutch fascinates me too. I need to learn a new language. It's about time. Tempted to get a gcse/a level in portuguese actually, just cos.. will ask at language school where ds goes.

Dontstep - thanks for those kind words. Phoned my brother but he was out. He's snowed under with work at moment so i text him to ask when best ti e for a catch up, and he said Friday. Had psyched myself up, but at least i will speak to him in a couple of days. Not long to wait I suppose, might even give me time to work out what it is I actually want to say!

Bombom - i don't have any kids but if I did i wouldn't want them exposed to my parent's craziness. Of course you know them better than us, but you have the advantage of being able to protect your children, in the way that nobody was able to do for you as a child. You have the bonus of already knowing what your mum is like, so you can spot things sooner

The Spanish that sound Portuguese would have been Gallego from Galicia in the North of Spain on the Portuguese/Atlantic side. Beautiful place.
Talking of buenso días, there are 2 villages in Andalusia, one called Buenas noches and the other malas mañanas

Oh no! After all the psyching up today but as you say, you have time to think about what to say. I'd find myself constantly imagining the interaction on what to say between now and Friday.

me too :)

milly don't over think it, there's no rush.

Good, i'm off to oporto in august, might hire a car and potter about, if I don't fall in love with surfing or end up in Accidentes e Emergências

Yes don't over think like I would

Trying to get into bed but there's a 5 yr old DS starfish in it after a bad dream

I went once when I lived in Portugal (Lisbon). Loved it, went on the train and loved the tiles in the station and then did a trip down the river. Also loved Coimbra, which we (went with DM funnily enough) visited on the same trip.

Thanks guys, i will try not to overthink things between now and Friday, but very unlikely. As you have all probably already noticed, i tend to obsess and overthink everything!

wondered if I could ask some advice pls (namechanger, have been on here before)

I've previously gone nc with my father but am currently low contact. His narcissism isn't as bad as it used to be but I'm still wary & I think it's worse with other people than me right now

Anyway I'm finding it hard to go low contact at the moment because i know he is very lonely. doesn't have any friends. He has driven everyone away. no career or hobbies. family that does speak to him doesn't like him. He's old and ill, spends Xmas's and New Years alone, and birthday, Father's Day etc....

In short I feel desperately sad for him & guilty for him being alone. But mainly sad. I know he drinks & probably drinks alone & is lonely I know he must be desperately unhappy.

how do I balance this sadness & sympathy for himwith wanting to protect myself? Any advice is very gratefully received

Don'tStep at least at 5yrs old, you can still lift said starfish.

I don't have a hope of moving my lummox of an 8yr old when he's spark out.

Mind you, if, after i've stood there, shouting calling his name, practically shaken him awake, he's surprisingly compliant, so if I can rouse him, I can ask him to move and he will. Otherwise. I've got no chance and have to put up with him snoring, farting, fidgeting or flailing.

Namechange, it is sad, but you didn't do this, and it comes as no surprise to him, surely, that you've had enough.

This is negotiation now, you've stated your position, now you wait.

Up to him if to engage. If he is sad and lonely, perhaps he'll come to his senses.

I've been lurking for a while. Thanks for the discussion on shifting from NC to low contact.

I recently had a visit with a cousin who (sadly, but thankfully) was experienced with Emotional abuse. I decided to tell her about my nc status with narcissistic Middle Sister. I almost told her the last time I saw her four years ago...(it's been 7 yrs tapering off LC to nc for 1.4 yr) but felt shameful about talking about it "behind her back". Cousin was very understanding and supportive which made me feel an authentic connection with her (and I have great difficulty in connecting with people). I thought it might trigger me into a toxic spiral needing a detox recovery period, but it did not! I had felt that it was like a dirty secret or something to hide...but not my secret/my behavior that needs a curtain drawn around it, iyswim.

It seemed like a mile stone for me. Well, it is one.

So I thought I was, perhaps, ready to try to go low contact (as oldest sister is) as I feel truly emotionally detached.
BUT
I know she will never change
I know she will want to pick up where it left off-same family roles (of her direction of course)
I know she will be as dismissive as she always is and has
been
I know she will dig at me with shame and guilt: even though I know she does not qualify to shame me and only I can make myself feel guilty...

But why would I volunteer to fall face first into the manure slop again?

I thought I would call her on Easter, but we travelled to inlaws (all day), not that a cell phone would be defeated by this and just did not get around to it. The gut feeling to just don't prevailed.

I think the thoughts to do it came from the sadness mentioned about her loneliness (well, I am guessing about that aren't I?) her sadness, my pity on her...making it all about her again.

What would be in it for me? Sounds selfish, but a well justified question since the stakes for my mental health/self esteem are so high. I do not think there is anything there for me. I have trouble connecting with people largely due to her so why would I want to be associated with someone who I had to work damn hard to keep such a network of protective boundaries to avoid hoping to create a meaningful connection? A meaningful authentic connection is not possible.

It is like a mural of a painted on door...keep trying to open it! There is no door there!

Sorry for my journalistic stream of conscious...at ils, coping well, if I say so myself.

For crying out loud, mil has sent my dd a birthday card! Not only did it fall apart in her hands (handmade) but she also addressed it from her and grandad x. How dare she add that mans name to any card sent here!

Why if she cared not at least send a decent card or atleast glue it with real fucking glue and maybe at least send a fiver or something

Just another way for her to upset my children! The disappointment on her face showed

Your mil is trying to hoover you all back in again; this is a typical move of such toxic people to try and bring you back into line. This was never done as a caring thing at all, more a control thing instead.

Unfortunately another job amongst many now is to intercept all mail addressed to your children because it may well be from them.

Hoovering is manipulation to gain control over your choice to distance yourself, and typically takes the following forms:

•Ignoring your requests to break off the relationship and attempting to continue on as if nothing has changed.
.
•Asking you when you’re going to “get over it” and return to your past actions.
.
•Sending you a fake apology to give you hope that things have changed.
.
•Trying to trick you into contact by saying someone needs you, is sick, or in trouble.
.
•Triangulating with others, communicating things to you through them.
.
•Saying they’re worried about you, concerned about whether you’re okay, need to know where you are, etc.

•Sending unwanted cards, messages and gifts, sometimes gifts for your children, as they know you are likely to feel guilty about keeping a gift from your kids. Don’t allow this – exposing your children to manipulation is far worse!
.
•Returning old items you left behind.
.
•Baiting you with drama games.
.
•Contacting you about “important” things they “forgot” and suddenly have to tell you.

Molly, I thought I would lose Oldest Sister to the narc Middle Sister as the drama triangle was fully used to keep the dynamics thriving. I was in counselling at the time and I just resolved that if that was part of the cost of fighting for my mental health then so be it. It hurt like hell, but I had to reestablish that I was number one on my list (my life). But then It turned out that I was wrong, and Oldest Sister knew what was going on and understood everything...even that my perspective/experience was different to hers. She completely validated me and was my enlightened witness as I think your sister is for you.

Your brother may not choose to fully deal with it as others have suggested. The "agree to disagree" has its place and it may be good here. Sometimes it annoys me greatly but it is an acknowledgment to respecting the other person's point of view as you want your perspective to be respected. I hope he will respect your boundaries re. Your parents.

norrsken I know exactly what you mean about it's a relief to be ignored, but it hurts like hell at the same time. Conflicting feelings or what. It really rubs the raw spots doesn't it, the wounds that you live around but never really heal.

My lovely, interested, caring dad (how thick can i lay the sarcasm on?) has sent me an email. Im in and out of hospital with failed inductions and a meltdown atm. Now they want me to stay in, even if means being here til week 42 ... I'm going to try to avoid opening that mail until well after this baby is finally born (if it ever is, it seems endless atm). All he wants to hear is that everything is nice and easy. Well it's not, and I can't pretend it is just so he can say 'oh good, that's nice'. Biggest fair weather friend ever, he is.

And ofc if I don't answer it he'll ring up saying 'why havent you replied'. Is it wrong of me to hate him for not bothering to answer when I mailed him that we'd nearly lost this baby? Why, of all the neglectful things over the years, has this been the final straw?

Andtheband - thank you for your insight and I hope that my brother can 'agree to disagree'. We shall see. I also like your question 'what's in it for me?'. That is what I have been thinking the last couple of days, especially as you said with the stakes being so high. I just can't see that I would gain anything by speaking to my parents/ visiting etc, and i don't even believe it would placate things with db, cos dad will still be hosting his pity party regardless, always wanting more.

In some ways, I am glad i will not be speaking to db until tomorrow as over the last couple of days my views have changed somewhat. I have been obsessively thinking things over for a week, yet today have only given it fleeting thoughts.

I think in my saddness/ fear of losing my brother in the future, combined with the wedding, allowed me to have a wobble re going LC. Deep down, i always knew it would cause a load of stress and problems, and i'm not sure I'm able/ willing to deal with it now, or ever really.

I feel better about deciding to actually talk about things with db rather than skirt round the issue. Even if it causes a row, i would rather know what i was dealing with, instead of second guessing. I know deep down that I don't really want to see my parents, unless happens to be at a big family do etc. the occasional phonecall would be ok, but what's in it for me? I don't actually take any joy from chatting to them, so don't see the point in making the effort (at least for now, anyway). I do however, feel ok with sending them the odd christmas card, and birthday card to dad, but not mum. So, i suppose I am willing to bend a TINY bit, and I'm pretty sure i will give them my new address, as they have no interest in really contacting me anyway, and i doubt that will change. So i guess what I'm saying is that I'm happy doing the absolute bare minimum, and that will have to suffice. Sadly, my brother will have to accept that, or take his problem elsewhere.

Thank you, once again to everybody on here, for helping me think things through. Sometimes u just need to mull things over with people that have similar experiences. My DH is very understanding and supportive, but he can't really get it like you guys, cos he has never been in that situation.

Milly it sounds like you've made peace with things and your next steps. Hope the call goes ok tomorrow.

Namechange it does sound desperately sad about your Dad but as Hissy said it's not your fault.

Andthebandplayedon even though you're still grappling with the guilt and obligation, you sound like you've got to a good place by being able to talk to your cousin and you can unpick your feelings and rationlise them and the right thing for you to do. Remain nc!

Meerka it's not wrong for you to feel hate for him right now. I'm so sorry to hear they want to keep you in until week 42, is that so they can monitor you? Can you say no? Will you reply to your Dad to avoid the phone call?

millymolly it sounds like you've reached a good balance for you, I hope it can give you some peace of mind, it sounds like it has?

they're keeping me in as it's been a heavy pregnancy and they tried twice to induce at 38 weeks (39+2 now) and failed both times, and I'm afraid I kind of melted down when they discharged me and said that we might have to wait til 42 weeks .. .Im still very nauseous from HG each day + right now I am getting horribly vivid nightmares from the bad teenage years with my father + stepmother and consequent difficulty at school ... v little sleep. So while normally I can handle the v low contact and his indifference quite well plus trouble with a half sister, atm it's all whirling round in my head at night and .. and ... and ... ye. meltdown. So now they want to keep me in til the baby is born but they don't really do elective caesarians in the NL, so it's wait, wait, wait.

I actually can't reply to my father by email because the hospital wi-fi is not secure so for some reason that I don't quite understand my husband set email so I can receive but not send on the laptop, though I can get onto Mumsnet ok. Tbh I doubt I could be rational or reasonable with my father atm anyway. I will have to rely on my husband to field any calls. My father sounds so nice and reasonable when you speak to him, even charming. Its not until you know him for a while you realise there is something missing and really quite nasty.