Please help.

[Loveyouthree]

I'm no saint, but I've put up with a lot from DP the past 4 years. In fact I'm now having counselling - not because of things he's done; I had issues before that - but all I talk about is him, and how I need to sort myself out for him.

I have hideously low self esteem and acute anxiety, I'm a shadow of my teenage self (not that long ago!). He was seriously immature when we met, but I made excuses for him over and over. He has changed loads now - the things he used to do are in the past. They still affect me deeply though, and he knows this, hence the counselling. Then this weekend we fell out, I went out in the car for an hour to get some space, and when I got back he went out. And didn't come home until the next day. With no contact.

I just can't forgive this, he did it purely to hurt me. The other times he's done shit like that he was stupid and thoughtless and got carried away with friends, but this time he clearly did it to punish me. I spent the night crying and self harming.

Oh and he's violent sometimes. That is my fault though, I can be very annoying and don't shut up and recently have started it first, i.e. I grabbed his back the other day. He has strangled me, thrown me across the room when heavily pregnant, slapped me in the face, grabbed my head and pushed me down, cut the bottom of my ear with my own earring by doing that, I think he punched me once but it was pitch black and he said it was a slap and his hand slipped. Fucking hurt though and I bled. Forced me into sex a lot but I think that's kind of ok because I never want it anymore iyswim?

He's lied and taken drugs behind my back a few items. Even when I was heavily pregnant. Drugs as in class a if anyone cares.

The crazy bit? I can live with the violence, I can cope with that. My own mother was a violent bitch so I've no hope really. It's rejection I can't take. So even though I need to leave him, I just don't know how I'll do it.

I mAnaged to leave my previous abusive boyfriend, but we lived in separate towns, had separate houses, didnt have children and I shamefully met someone else who distracted me from it all. Now I have none of those things on my side, we're all but married (wedding booked for this year!).

I'm meant to be ringing all the right people today eg womens aid, shelter. But, knowing me, it'll come to nothing. He'll come back from work on Friday night and I'll be too much of a wimp to do anything. And anyway I don't think womens aid will help because he's not actually abusive. He's not controlling or jealous in the slightest. He'd never put me down or try to stop me going somewhere (not that he has do, I rarely do!). But he doesn't fit in that category.

But I can't forgive him for the other night. Thanks for reading :(

he isn't going to change though is he - you have given him permission to carry on with his abuse towards you - are you so desperate for love that you will risk your life and the safety of your children for a few crumbs of affection he may show you in the non-abusive times - is that all you think you are worth?

2 of us have mentioned the freedom programme - I gave you a link to it above - have you looked, will you consider doing it? We can all see how you are minimising and trying to rationalise what he does. We are all terrified he is going to hurt or even kill you. Not one person has condoned his behaviour on this thread - all except for you. Why do you think that is?

He doesn't really leave marks on me, honestly I'd have no evidence for the police

Women's Aid will take you and keep you safe btw.

you don't need marks on you - why are you so convinced you need marks - has he told you that lie too??

We have gone months and months with no incident. He's changed loads in the past year.

But no I know I don't think I'm worth much. Looked at the freedom programme, can't believe it's free (ironic) so will definitely do that when I'm not so busy with these three creatures!! Thank you.

I think I'm the only one doing that because I'm the only one who knows him...

months without incident means nothing - please do look at the freedom programme - just take it slowly is my advice. In person is poss better but I found the online one invaluable.

And you are worth way more than you will ever believe - we all think that, I just hope you can recognize it one day too.

No he's never said anything like that, not that I remember... I have a pretty good memory! He's NOT what you all think. He wants me to build myself up... He hates me having no confidence! This could be a typical conversation:

DP: mmm (seeing me walk in after a shower or whatever)
Me: don't be silly
DP: what? You look amazing.
Me: I would if I had plastic surgery. I need breast augmentation at least :(
DP: your boobs are perfect

Me: counselling went well today
DP: that's good babe
Me: hopefully I'll be sorted soon and feel stronger and be able to do more without getting all anxious!!
DP: I hope you do sweetheart, I'm so glad you went to the doctors

Etc etc

he doesn't say that when he has his hands round your throat though or is raping you - a few nice comments does not excuse what he has done.

It's funny that ZERO books or courses on building self-esteem involve rape, violence when pregnant, being throttled in front of one's children, etc., isn't it? Because nothing makes a woman more confident than those! Still, so long as he finds her tits sexy, all the abuse is just stuff and nonsense.

It's a good job that you keeping your children in a house with a violent abuser isn't going to damage them. Y'know, like being in a home with violent abusive parents didn't damage you at all.

I am being sarcastic because your sense of boundaries, normalcy, decency, and what actually fucking matters, are so skewed that it's breathtaking. If you're so damaged and deluded that you refuse yo break with this monster, then that's sad, but it's your choice, but your Dc don't have a choice about it. Just remember that abuse of a mother automatically abuses her children.

And you are wrong about grandparents' rights and fathers' access. Whoever told you that stuff was lying. You could look it up easily enough online. But I suspect you'd rather make excuses and deny it's true, even though mot people on here know it is, than do anything.

If "he's not what you all think, how come there are scores of people on here begging you to get help because they've read your post, your plea for help and can see see that the fact he's raped, strangled and hit you in the past suggests that he certainly can and is likely to do the same thing again?

We are all able to see that you are desperate for his love, affection and attention, but that for you that means putting up with very real abuse, horrific violence and the distinct possibility that sooner or later your children will become the target.

OP you have such low expectations. A man who loved you, who wanted you to have confidence would not rape you or throttle you.

What about the conversation when he said "I would actually murder you if you did anything like that, and do the time for it. Seriously."?

Bloody hell, I'd want to murder him if he cheated on me!

Yes if you google grandparents rights you will see the steps they can take to get access. No, they're not always granted it but like I said I was warned in this case they would.

I know I have low expectations, it's crap :( but I'm working on it.

I googled and this came up

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/946342-Advice-Please-re-CAFCASS-and-access/AllOnOnePage

??? This is what I have been told too!

I googled Grandparents rights, and the first page at the top states that Grandparents have no right in British law to automatic access to their grandchildren.

I am worried for you that infidelity, wrong though it most certainly is, would be worse than rape, violence when pregnant, or being throttled.

Or worse than what you are choosing to let damaged your children by staying.

I'll keep pointing out that his abuse forces you to collude in hurting them until it makes some impression.

You work on those low expectations by being single, and being truthful in intensive therapy. Nothing else will work, end of story. You are doomed to failure if trying to work on it whilst with an abuser of his severity.

I said that - they have to apply for leave first. It's lengthy and it's expensive but my parents are controlling enough and rich enough to do it.

I'd rather be half killed by a partner than cheated on. I couldn't cope with infidelity. I cry at people's threads on here when their husband strays. It's disgusting.

If he doesn't improve I will be single.

What do you think about the Freedom Programme that others have linked to? That you can do from the comfort of your own home? With very little effort?

I think that I will definitely do it... Would love to be more assertive and insightful etc. thank you

My love, read what you've just put - that you would rather be half killedby a partner than cheated on. You surely know that this is simply not a normal way to think. It is incredibly dangerous to have your priorities and self esteem so skewed - and you don't have your life to be ruined or taken away, your children depend on you for everything. To be so consumed with this dangerous, melodramatic bullshit is to utterly fail them,cheat them, ruin their lives in advance. Are you not sick of degrading and debasing yourself in this way?

Are you saying that you read threads on here and think that being cheated on is more disgusting than abuse?! Do you realise how insulting that is? Do you cry when you read about women being raped? Strangled? Having violence levelled against them when they are heavily pregnant? How about crying when you read about women who choose to stay with abusers, thus damaging their children and ruining their lives for them?

I'm so sorry for what happened to you on childhood that made your mindset about love so twisted and dark, but you cannot let yourself be treated this way because you have abandonment issues.

It is SELFISH of you to let your issues and obsessions matter more to you than your children, even though thosethings were caused by the damage done to you as a child, which is tragic. But this is making you a bad mother. Letting your children grow up in that environment is a disgrace.

One of the cruellest things about domestic abuse is that abuse of a mother is automatically abuse of the children, and, by staying, the mother is forced to particpate in damaging her own children.

One last thing: earlier, you said that you cancelled seeing WA because you were scared they would contact SS and you'd have your children taken off you. This means either one of two things:

1. You lied about your reason for cancelling WA, and just used the children factor as an excuse that sounds plausible.

OR

2. You know that what goes on in your relationship is so abusive and damaging to your children that officials would judge it necessary to take your children from you, because you are incapable or unwilling to protect them by leaving him.

Which one is it? Because if it is 2, you need to take a long hard look at yourself. If it is 2, you know that you are sacrificing your children to your own problems and needs. And you are having counselling but not telling the truth. Even with help, you choose to sacrifice them. Did you learn how to do that from your own mother?

What about next time he doesn't keep in touch in a night out. Are you going to self harm again?

What about next time he's lazy....hungover from previous night....ignoring you or your dc....you've already admitted you can't be ignored....what if another row errupts and this time he beats you to a pulp?

What if your dc watch and learn and history repeats itself for them?
Could you as a mother really ever forgive yourself?

I don't mean to sound rude, but I believe you have some very dangerous traits within your family environment. Get the help you need and break this cycle....

'I'd rather be half killed by a partner than cheated on.'
Jesus Christ.
OP, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am a social worker in children's services, although relatively new to the job. I have a mix of child in need and child protection cases and some (less often) cases that go into proceedings.
I am genuinely upset and frightened for your children, and for you. The situation you describe, notwithstanding the good parts of the relationship that you describe, is worse than many cases I currently work with. I am not trying to scare or intimidate you, but you need to understand the gravity of what is going on and how your responsibilities in this situation are different compared to if you were an adult with no kids making an informed decision to work at a relationship like this. (We would all still be worried and upset for you, by the way).
You mentioned that you don't have much faith in family law, and from your horrible experiences, I can appreciate that. I am glad that you're posting here and that you are sharing these things that you are too scared to tell others (women's aid, police etc) but I beg of you to reconsider and to seek support in real life. If not for you, then for your kids, who you obviously love. LOVING THEM IS NOT ENOUGH if you don't also protect them from harm, and hurt, and trauma, and humiliation, and abuse, and pain. The secrecy that you are cultivating is EXTREMELY dangerous.
Please reflect on this OP, please. Social care or children's services will help and support you AS LONG AS YOU SHOW YOU ARE TAKING YOUR CHILDREN'S WELFARE SERIOUSLY, PLACING THEIR NEEDS ABOVE YOUR NEED TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP, AND ARE SHOWING THAT YOU CAN JUDGE AND DEAL WITH RISKS.
I am sorry to be so harsh but reading this thread has really got to me. Keep reading around the subject, keep reading the links other posters are pasting for you, and keep the dialogue going with us. We are wishing you well but we cannot pretend that the choice you are making right now is a good one for your kids.

At the moment though DeriArms Loveyouthree is making poor judgements and not dealing with the risks, maybe Loveyouthree realises this deep down and this is maybe what is preventing her from getting support. For example if she goes to get help now after all this time maybe she is scared that children's social care will take a dim view and see her as a big risk as she has not protected them on previous occasions by leaving this relationship. I don't know - there is a lot going on. I just hope that he has changed as she wishes for the kids sake because they can't make those choices for themselves.

Wasuup, he will not change. No normal, decent man does ANY of the things this man has done. If he was capable of change, ie, not abusing her, he would never have abused her in the first place. If he wanted to not abuse her, he wouldn't have abused her in the first place. The biggest predictor for future violence in a relationship is past violence.

Social services would take a dim view and see her as a risk, because she is. She is facilitating them being mentally and emotionally abused by placing more importance on her fixation with him, and with not being abandoned, than she. Is her own children. No matter how much she loves them, she is allowing them to be damaged by him, and setting them a terrible example by minimising, denying, the secrecy, by prefering to be half killed than abandoned, and so much more. Together, her and her OH are essentially putting their children through a brainwashing system to ensure they'll end up as future abusers and victims themselves. SS take a dim view of women who won't leave their abusers and keep their children in that environment not just because of how damaging it is for them to witness, but because of all the other, less obvious factors that damage them, such as learning to normalise, and witnessing their mother fixating on a man who hurts her (which is a horrific mindfuck for a child), and so much more.

As sympathetic as I am, she is failing her children very, very badly.