Please help.

[Loveyouthree]

I'm no saint, but I've put up with a lot from DP the past 4 years. In fact I'm now having counselling - not because of things he's done; I had issues before that - but all I talk about is him, and how I need to sort myself out for him.

I have hideously low self esteem and acute anxiety, I'm a shadow of my teenage self (not that long ago!). He was seriously immature when we met, but I made excuses for him over and over. He has changed loads now - the things he used to do are in the past. They still affect me deeply though, and he knows this, hence the counselling. Then this weekend we fell out, I went out in the car for an hour to get some space, and when I got back he went out. And didn't come home until the next day. With no contact.

I just can't forgive this, he did it purely to hurt me. The other times he's done shit like that he was stupid and thoughtless and got carried away with friends, but this time he clearly did it to punish me. I spent the night crying and self harming.

Oh and he's violent sometimes. That is my fault though, I can be very annoying and don't shut up and recently have started it first, i.e. I grabbed his back the other day. He has strangled me, thrown me across the room when heavily pregnant, slapped me in the face, grabbed my head and pushed me down, cut the bottom of my ear with my own earring by doing that, I think he punched me once but it was pitch black and he said it was a slap and his hand slipped. Fucking hurt though and I bled. Forced me into sex a lot but I think that's kind of ok because I never want it anymore iyswim?

He's lied and taken drugs behind my back a few items. Even when I was heavily pregnant. Drugs as in class a if anyone cares.

The crazy bit? I can live with the violence, I can cope with that. My own mother was a violent bitch so I've no hope really. It's rejection I can't take. So even though I need to leave him, I just don't know how I'll do it.

I mAnaged to leave my previous abusive boyfriend, but we lived in separate towns, had separate houses, didnt have children and I shamefully met someone else who distracted me from it all. Now I have none of those things on my side, we're all but married (wedding booked for this year!).

I'm meant to be ringing all the right people today eg womens aid, shelter. But, knowing me, it'll come to nothing. He'll come back from work on Friday night and I'll be too much of a wimp to do anything. And anyway I don't think womens aid will help because he's not actually abusive. He's not controlling or jealous in the slightest. He'd never put me down or try to stop me going somewhere (not that he has do, I rarely do!). But he doesn't fit in that category.

But I can't forgive him for the other night. Thanks for reading :(

OP, did you know that two of the biggest red flags to official agencies are violence in pregnancy and throttling? They indicate to everyone with knowledge about abuse and violence, etc., that a man capable of those things is the most dangerous type of abuser, and that he is the least likely to ever be able to change.

Just one of those would terrify anyone for your safety, and your OH has done both, as well as much more.

I don't think the kids are having a horrible, abusive life. I really don't. Even if DP was affecting them, he works away loads. I'm worried about children's services because you just hear horror stories. If they were involved and if they told me he had to leave, he would leave. End of. (Not that they would, they never frigging helped me when my own mum was directly abusing me!).

What about next time he doesn't keep in touch in a night out. Are you going to self harm again? I didn't self harm because he went out. It was because he did something that dragged up the past. He rarely goes out now, and I don't want him to text while he's out, it was just because he walked out the door and didn't any where he was going.

What about next time he's lazy....hungover from previous night....ignoring you or your dc....you've already admitted you can't be ignored....what if another row errupts and this time he beats you to a pulp? again, I need to lower my expectations and let him have that time to sleep after a night out rather than moan ad whinge and bitch until he gets out of bed. Everyone needs a night out sometimes. I just have to let him like he would let me. He'd never beat me to a pulp. His own father would kill him probably!

What if your dc watch and learn and history repeats itself for them?
Could you as a mother really ever forgive yourself? I wouldn't forgive myself. But at this age they do not understand, all they'd see is daddy has gone.

I had another heart to heart with him last night on the phone. A long time ago We were talking about fantasies etc and I said I loved rape role play. He said that all the times I've said no and tried to push him off etc he didn't know if it was real or if I was going back to this fantasy.

I do get more affected by the affair threads than the violence threads because finding out your husband has cheated is a massive shock. If your partner has been violent then it's not a shock if he does it again, if that makes sense?

We can go round and round with you trying to justify your choices. In the meantime there is a risk to you and a risk to your children. You are choosing him and your need for him over the safety of your children.

With respect OP, your perception of abuse is clearly fucked.

"all the times I've said no and tried to push him off etc he didn't know if it was real or if I was going back to this fantasy" - he'd rather get his rocks off than make sure he wasn't raping his wife

And OP this bit worries me, Not that they would, they never frigging helped me when my own mum was directly abusing me!

Because it suggests that your reason for not letting Social Services protect your children is because they let you down and there was nobody else to protect you. Your children do have somebody who could choose to protect them, if she wasn't putting her own needs first.

loveyouthree please seek help. he has you brainwashed. when i read of a mother strangled, a father in jail & children in care i will never know if is you.

Sooner or later, OP, social services will be involved. The children (who see and suffer far more than you think) will say something to a teacher, a guide leader, a classmate. It will be reported, and social services will visit, and see that you insist on staying with a man who is a serious threat to you all. That is what will end up with social services threatening to remove your children from you.

On the other hand, if you go to them, reach out for help, they will help you get this appalling man out of all your lives before he kills one of you. They will see that you are trying to do the best for your children.

Your daughter shouldn't have to grow up to be abused, and your sons to be abusers. But that is what you are risking.

Jesus. This is probably the most fucked-up thread I've ever read on MN.

Sorry OP, but I think your situation is a newspaper headline waiting to happen. I know it's hard, I know you don't want to believe us, and I know leaving is a process. But please, at least go through with women's aid, if nothing else. You are in serious denial about what could happen to you and your kids and you need help.

I wish you luck.

But the children are not in danger and I am not in danger if he stops now!!

And he will stop, because I won't grab him first or whatever.

It won't be me in the news, please don't think that :(

You don't make him abusive OP. No amount of moderating your own behaviour will protect your dc.

Loveyouthree, you are taking responsibility for his behaviour, which is not sustainable. You can't guarantee that as long as you don't do anything to upset him/wind him up/ cause problems, that he won't react in a way that is harmful/upsetting/inappropriate/abusive. The only thing you can truly take responsibility for, is your own behaviour.
Please, go back to women's aid. I know it must be horrible being hectored on this thread when in your own mind you are trying to keep your family together but PLEASE believe us when we say how and why we are seriously, seriously concerned about the short and long term physical and emotional safety of your children.
Ask them about the freedom programme. It might just save you and your children's lives, or prevent lifetimes of unhappiness. That is what you can do.

You need to lower your expectations?? You are expecting not to be strangled and abused- on a good day and if you behave well - and see anything remotely normal as amazing. You cannot lower your expectations any further, they have nowhere lower to go.

OP, it is not you who makes him violent. It's him, he chooses to be like that. It is not your fault and you cannot stop and avoid it by behaving better. He will always, always find something you supposedly did to upset and provoke him. If you do nothing at all, that will be wrong too.

Why do you believe so strongly that he's a changed man now and will stop?

Bloody hell, I'd want to murder him if he cheated on me! - yes, most of us would want to, but wouldn't. I suggest that you wouldn't [murder him]. I also suggest that actually - he would. He's said so. He'd do the time.

Did you know that strangulation is actually really dangerous because it doesn't actually take very much before the neck snaps? It is a very fragile structure, and it is very, very, very easy to break, or cause damage sufficient to kill outright, or maim permanently (Paralyse). This is why throttling, or attempting to, is viewed very seriously by police, SS, WA etc, because it is v v v hard to 'half-kill' someone when you have hands round their throat - and very easy to KILL.

OP - we are frustrated by your minimising and dependancy on this monster. Oxford is harsh, but is trying to make you see what we do. deri is a professional working in this field, and is trying to make you see.

Think of it as - if you had no arms, how would you stop your child running into the road? By talking, talking, shouting, getting someone else to help; ultimately tho, there is not much you can do if he/she decides to run. That's what it's like for us - we are trying to make you see how damaging your childrens childhood IS, is now! And the only way to help them is to get away from the violence and abuse.

It is NOT horrendous being alone - lots of us (me included) have kids but no partner. Our attention is on them; our attention comes from them. I don't need a man, at all. My life is lovely, quiet, safe, just fantastic! Yours can be too - you can continue with counselling alone, you can continue with your life, alone, you can continue with your hobbies, work, anything you like, alone! Who needs a man???

I actually read your other thread which you started concurrently with this one. You go into much detail about violently self harming the tops of your arms. Because he has gone out and was ignoring you .

I suppose you will retort that your children would be to young to understand ....if they see you harming or ...the marks you leave.

So wrong

Can't really see how you can lower your expectations to be honest but yes....don't try and get him out of bed after a night of excessive alcohol ....class goodness knows what 'class' drugs you describe. He will never be that 'family man' loving going out with his family ....always be a 'bit meh' about plans with dc as you previous describe. So make sure you lower your standards to the dregs there also.

Oh and believe me....they do know and feel this awful life you are creating for them. Sad thing is it will become normal.

But it doesn't happen very often so that's ok....

You are justifying
everything negative in your life
....'I was abused'
.....'I CAN'T be ignored....
.....'he's not that bad'
....'he's my world'

Shame your children aren't your world.

Frightening.... and ill get flamed for this but I think part of you enjoys a bit of this drama etc because at least you have nobody ignoring you....
Especially him.

I'm not scared of being alone. I miss being alone sometimes (have been a single parent before, did what I wanted when I wanted etc). What I'm scared of is HIM being alone, because then he's free to have a happy life with someone else, or have wild parties, whatever. The kids don't need to see the fall out of that. I'd be crying constantly.

I'll be honest and say I didn't know strangling was that serious. Obviously it can be, but I didn't think it was when he did it. That has worried me now.

OP, if you needed other people to tell you that strangling is dangerous, then you need to beg every agency available for help, ASAP. Only someone with an intensely damaged and dangerous (to themselves) sense of normalcy and boundaries and safety wouldn't know it was dangerous.

And please keep bearing in mind that it's not only dangerous, it's considered to be just about the number one indicator that a man will kill his partner.

That you would rather be abused and let your children grow up in that environment, rather than have him be a free and single man again, is absolutely crazy - and disgusting. That really is shockingly selfish and bad parenting.

You really need a LOT of help.

Yes I admit I do need help, I've tried to get it for years, I even paid for counselling until my money ran out.

The kids will be fine, he will behave now. And if he doesn't then that's it.

can't believe you've taken him back, you are an idiot.

Counselling won't work if you're lying to them. And you need therapy, bot counselling.

so the only reason you are staying with him is because you don't want him sleeping with someone else and having wild parties? So that is more important than the safety of you and your children. Can you not see how very wrong that is.

I think you need to remake that WA appointment and start being honest with them. If your kids go to school and tell a teacher daddy strangled mummy you can guarantee they will report it to SS.

It sounds to me as if you're missing the single life, wishing you could be free to party and you don't want him to have it if you can't have it. Who cares what he does when he's on his own? He will inevitably find someone else to abuse/bully/smack around when he feels like it - who exactly is that a happy life for anyway?

I know that you were badly abused and neglected as a child, but you really must break that cycle and put your children at the top of your list of priorities.

Right now you could be building a safe, happy home for your children away from his violence.

Sweetie, your children do see it, and it is affecting them. I know you think it doesn't. My dad too spent lots of time away, and that was the happiest parts of our life with our mum, who was a different person when he was gone. But the sinking in the stomach feeling of him coming back again, especially if he had leave which meant even more drinking, that was the worst feeling in the world.

I remember one Christmas we were opening presents, and on the PS1 games they had security tags that were really sticky. I remember him making a comment about how she could use it to close her cunt up because she was a whore. They never knew I heard.

I remember aged four being so upset in school, because I had watched my dad pin my mum up against a wall by her throat. But I was too scared to say anything, so I was stuck with the weight of the world on my shoulders. I remember wanting to run away.

I remember my dad beating the crap out of my brother for being mouthy and knocking food out his hand. My mum jumped in and got thrown off into a wall, I tried to stop it and hit the washing machine. This was after sixteen years of marriage.

In the beginning it was just mum, but it eventually got to the point where it was us too. I remember being chased around the house aged ten by him with the belt for daring to mouth off about something I disagreed with.

When my mum went into hospital for cancer treatment, I ran away from home for fear of being alone with my dad.

He was sexually abusing me too. Nobody knew about that. But he was raping mum, beating her, getting physical with us, so it's not really a big jump to sexually abusing me. All of it started out as just pinning her against the wall in an argument. As we got older, we were targets too. You might think he is lovely, everyone thought my dad was a standup guy. Except us at home, who were all terrified of him.

Jesus Christ Fan - I'm so sorry

If your mum wasn't prepared or able to leave him Fan, I wonder if she'd have acknowledged that you would have been better off being adopted or fostered?

Fan....that made me cry....
And as you say that all began with a 'push against the wall'