Please help.

[Loveyouthree]

I'm no saint, but I've put up with a lot from DP the past 4 years. In fact I'm now having counselling - not because of things he's done; I had issues before that - but all I talk about is him, and how I need to sort myself out for him.

I have hideously low self esteem and acute anxiety, I'm a shadow of my teenage self (not that long ago!). He was seriously immature when we met, but I made excuses for him over and over. He has changed loads now - the things he used to do are in the past. They still affect me deeply though, and he knows this, hence the counselling. Then this weekend we fell out, I went out in the car for an hour to get some space, and when I got back he went out. And didn't come home until the next day. With no contact.

I just can't forgive this, he did it purely to hurt me. The other times he's done shit like that he was stupid and thoughtless and got carried away with friends, but this time he clearly did it to punish me. I spent the night crying and self harming.

Oh and he's violent sometimes. That is my fault though, I can be very annoying and don't shut up and recently have started it first, i.e. I grabbed his back the other day. He has strangled me, thrown me across the room when heavily pregnant, slapped me in the face, grabbed my head and pushed me down, cut the bottom of my ear with my own earring by doing that, I think he punched me once but it was pitch black and he said it was a slap and his hand slipped. Fucking hurt though and I bled. Forced me into sex a lot but I think that's kind of ok because I never want it anymore iyswim?

He's lied and taken drugs behind my back a few items. Even when I was heavily pregnant. Drugs as in class a if anyone cares.

The crazy bit? I can live with the violence, I can cope with that. My own mother was a violent bitch so I've no hope really. It's rejection I can't take. So even though I need to leave him, I just don't know how I'll do it.

I mAnaged to leave my previous abusive boyfriend, but we lived in separate towns, had separate houses, didnt have children and I shamefully met someone else who distracted me from it all. Now I have none of those things on my side, we're all but married (wedding booked for this year!).

I'm meant to be ringing all the right people today eg womens aid, shelter. But, knowing me, it'll come to nothing. He'll come back from work on Friday night and I'll be too much of a wimp to do anything. And anyway I don't think womens aid will help because he's not actually abusive. He's not controlling or jealous in the slightest. He'd never put me down or try to stop me going somewhere (not that he has do, I rarely do!). But he doesn't fit in that category.

But I can't forgive him for the other night. Thanks for reading :(

Booking you into a nice hotel is not an amazing thing. In most relationships, this would be considered a nice, normal thing to do for your partner. He is so horrible that any normal things he does seem amazing in comparison.

So by your definition, most people are in relationships that are absolutely amazing every day, with no violence, slapping, raping,lying, drugs etc. Why do you think you don't deserve to be in one like that?

He wasn't bothered about keeping you together as a family when he was violent to you when you were pg, was he? Or when he throttled you in front of the kids?

You are only 24, and you have 3 children and are in your second abusive relationship. You should be in long-term, intensive therapy for abuse victims, and possibly getting counselling for your dc too (do not insult anyone by lying to yourself that they are already damaged by growing up with this dynamic between their parents, at least be honest that you are failing them if you won't leave), and swearing off men for a long, long time. It's so vile and unfair that your childhood made you like this, but now you're failing your own kids, and continuing the cycle is wrong.

Agree Oxford

Plus

No point carrying on with counselling unless you are telling the truth....the violence....self harm....

Get some help.

He's never hit you?

He's only strangled you, thrown you to the floor while pregnant, tried to pass off a punch as slap, raped you until you bled. That's ok then.

You say he has no 'script' but you've been together a while and he knows what works. He knows how to pull you back when you want to walk. A man who loved you would want to protect you from violence and pain not cause it. He would want you to leave for your own safety and get treatment for himself.

The punishment is the repeated rape, the physical violence. It's never an expression of love only anger, hate and selfishness. He wants to dominate you, to punish you for every piece of pain inside him and inflict pain on you. He couldn't care less about the negative consequences for you and the children. The only thing that matters to him is his feelings, his need to lash out, rape, control, dominate. He has no idea what love is because he can't feel it. Sadly you don't know either due to your abusive childhood, so you can't recognise love when you see it, or in this case, don't see it.

This is not love but destructive codependent addiction: he's addicted to dominating and torturing you, and you are vulnerable and addicted to the highs, lows and dangers of being with him. If you do not get out, this relationship will destroy both of you and potentially your children too.

I will leave you with the words of Tina Nash who may recall had her eyes gouged out by her partner. She warned other victims of da to seek help:

"He said I was a best mate, so I don’t understand why he would hurt someone that he is supposed to care about. I have done so much for him, and this is how he repaid me. I thought I could change and help him. I thought he was getting better and sorting his life out....

"Get out, before it’s too late. It ain’t going to get better, it will get worse."

Hope your daughter aspires for better when she's older.

And doesn't end up with someone like your darling fiancé

But 'he's your world' so that's ok

Should read your 'darling f i a n c e'

The script that's referred to is a recognised pattern of behaviour by an abuser. No matter whether or not he's been in relationships before, his response to you when you consider splitting up is to say anything and everything possible to get you to change your mind, it doesn't matter what he has to say, what matters is that, one way or another, he'll persuade you. Then the words will be forgotten and he can resume normal (for him) behaviour.

Try to look at his actions rather than his words.

Incidentally, not all parents argue. My parents didn't argue (or at least I didn't witness it) in 51 years of marriage. Their marriage was by no means perfect, but for the 19 years I lived at home, I never once heard either of them raise their voice, shout, hit, slap etc. I never argued with my XH either, in 16 years of marriage. Yes, we disagreed, sulked, whatever, but never shouted, hit, slapped etc. That sort of behaviour is not inevitable, by any stretch.

your OP - He has strangled me, thrown me across the room when heavily pregnant, slapped me in the face, grabbed my head and pushed me down, cut the bottom of my ear with my own earring by doing that, I think he punched me once but it was pitch black and he said it was a slap and his hand slipped. Fucking hurt though and I bled. Forced me into sex a lot but I think that's kind of ok because I never want it anymore iyswim? - so he's never hit you? When we say abuse, we mean strangulation, slaps, punches, pushes and shoves, throwing things, unconsenting sex....

That is abuse. Your OP was more concerned that he had gone out and stayed out all night, without any contact.

You also say 'your mother was a violent bitch' - well, your dcs father is a violent bastard. They will have the same upbringing and childhood as you, if you don't get rid of this monster. You are giving them the same fucked-up ideas of 'love' and relationships as you have.

OP I'm not going to try to browbeat you. It can take several attempts before women in abusive relationships reach the point where they are able to leave. It's miserable being with a violent bully but, when your confidence and self-esteem are shattered, the big wide world seems far scarier than the man subjecting you to ill-treatment. But one day something will happen... and it may be something incredibly trivial.... and you'll feel differently. The world will seem a risk worth taking.

Keep the WA number handy. Keep the police number handy. Stay safe at all costs. When you're ready to leave no-one's going to say 'I told you so'... simply 'good call'.

I'm going to stick around here. Don't disappear. You did so well to stand up to him for this time, I wish you might have been able to go through with it, but I do know how scary it is, and how easy it is to excuse his behaviour, unacceptable as it is.

Can you do me a favour? Not leaving him isn't the best solution, and I admit I am now a bit worried about you. Can you keep yourself safe? Continue your contact with Women's Aid, try to get on the Freedom Program, it's a bit of education that you will benefit from, I promise. Keep going to counselling, and talk to them about this too. Don't sweep it under the carpet because you are back together now, continue to learn about yourself and where your strength to ask him to leave came from. Because I know there is still that niggling little thought inside your head that you might deserve better than this.

If you are going to make it work, you have to be firm about the boundaries he isn't to step over, and follow through with the consequences if he doesn't stick by that, which I think he probably won't. No violence, no sex unless you say yes, no aggressive behaviour towards you, the kids or your possessions, you are in control of your life and can do things like go out or spend money without needing permission. That's not a difficult list to follow, is it? Because you know those sorts of behaviours are wrong? And the consequence should be that you will contact the police for these behaviours sweetie. Domestic violence and abuse isn't okay.

If you've taken him back, don't let it be for the old way to continue. Start a new way where you aren't always at risk, if he can't manage that, then he doesn't want to change and he doesn't love and respect you.

I want you to look at his behaviours and ask yourself each time, is that okay? Would that be okay for my daughter to live with, or for my son to say/do?

And ultimately, I would ask you to just make some preparations. Keep the money aside, keep your important documents safe and hidden away, keep your contact with Women's Aid - they will support you whether you stay or leave, keep talking to us for support, and be vigilant for risk to yourself and your children. I hate to think how angry he might be later on for you doing this. He might use it to make you feel even worse about yourself. Don't tell him about here and Women's Aid, keep your matters like this separate from him, in case you have to flee for safety. I want you to count this as a possibility because I will worry for you otherwise.

All the stuff I said otherwise, about you deserving better and being strong, I stand by that. You are beginning to see it too I hope. Please love yourself more than you do by not accepting abuse honey, I know you want to give him a chance, they make you believe they can change, but if you see that he hasn't changed, remember that we're here to help you and your children get out of that place.

I am really sorry to read this, OP. I am sad for you and I am furious for your children, who have no power in this situation. The other contributors have expressed themselves far better than I could but I just want to share with you that I watched an interview with Christopher Hitchens recently on YouTube, he was talking about something else but he said something really important: 'You have to choose your future regrets'. I hope that your future regret is not that you lived a life in fear, anxiety and dread of the 'wind changing' or 'doing the wrong thing' or it being 'a bad day' and that you raised your children in such an environment. Think about why it is you have the issues you have today, and then whether you (a) want the issues to stay as they are and (b) whether you want your kids to be posting similar things on an Internet forum in twenty years' time.
But you have to find your own way to this. Please keep reading and posting and checking in on here. We are bloody frustrated right now but we are not here to judge. As others have said, it can take time and patience to get to grips with all the issues, process things, build strength and determination, and start to plan a life and a future. Keep in touch with Women's Aid, work with your counsellor (but ONLY if you tell the truth to him/her) and don't hesitate to contact the police or seek medical advice if you or your children need it.
Good luck.

As FanFuckingTastic said - please see WA today. Please go to counselling. Please get any help you can with this - and dont let him tell you you don't need it. (It's not in his interests to have you strong!)

Please stay on here. tell us what you are doing/feeling. Keep talking.

At the very least, read some of the other 'relationship' threads! You are an intelligent woman, you can empathise, and see what 'normal' should be.

Please make this a new start - one in which you are an equal, and not a doormat/skivvy, so no aggression, no violence, no fear, no sex without consent. HE will not want it this way, so it's up to you to be strong.

Just have to answer... He would never ever stop me going to counselling etc. he knows I need it for my childhood, for a start.

I had counselling today, and it went well. For the first time ever I didn't sit there boiling hot/blushing all the way through. My confidence has grown already. DP is clearly terrified I'm going to do this again (if there's a next time, I will go through with it). It's nice calling the shots, I always let life happen to me rather than make my own decisions. I feel more relaxed and less of a control freak already. I've made plans with a friend for Saturday night. I never go out with friends cos I prefer staying in with DP normally but I WILL be more independent. I've suggested to him that he goes out too (obv not at the same time cos of the kids). I want him to go out. I don't want to try to keep him with me all the time.

I've told him 1. No sex until I want it, whether that's in 6 days or 6 months. If he pressures me that's it. I hate having sex when I can't be bothered! He said sex is the last thing on his mind. 2. That he can have my engagement ring back, we are no longer "engaged". If things get up to a brilliant point again then he's more than welcome to propose again. But we will see.

I feel stronger :)

As before someone says it... No, DP does NOT try to keep me home, or stop me seeing friends etc. my own anxiety (that I've always had) stops me, I've always been pretty antisocial, and now with 3 kids I'm knackered. If anything he tries to encourage me to go out - I'm sure he'd love a night just to watch his programmes or even play his Xbox without me yapping his head off all night because I haven't seen anyone all day!

I'm really glad to hear you had your counselling session and that you feel stronger now.

You did really well to assert yourself and put some boundaries in place, as well as calling a halt to the wedding.

Well done OP ((hugs))

Thank you.

I KNOW we might not last forever. But anyone on here who has left a partner, abusive or otherwise, knows that it often has to be done in "stages". That certainly applies to me, anyway. Even when I've been in relationships with lovely men. Because I'M so needy. It's the neediness that I'm trying my damn hardest to break now, because then I will make whatever decision I need to.

I agree about the stages - I think the strength and self-confidence you need builds up gradually, one small act makes you feel more able to take on the next one and the next, til you're really feeling better able to manage.

I hope that's the case for me :)

Only he can change himself, I can't change him. And if he doesn't bother then he can get that flat after all.

Yes, you're moving in the right direction - going out with friends will give you some much-needed space and me-time too.

The only things I'm worried about are

1. I don't keep this up (the social life)

1. None of my friends are free one weekend.

But, I'll try my best, even if I'm just going window shopping alone for a couple of hours.

Ive also said we should do something with the kids, too (he asked what we were doing at the weekend).

He's always been a bit "meh" about taking the kids out so we will see if he can muster some enthusiasm. I'm planning on taking them to a farm type thing, with a view to maybe buy some chickens in the future :)

op - if he puts his hands round your throat again, or rapes you, or anything else will you please call 999. The strangling - that is the worst type of abuse and you tell the police that you will be top priority. Sorry, but women die from what he did to you.

I really hope you do find the strength and confidence to get away from such a dangerous man - you do deserve better. Mumsnet will be here to talk to you when you do want support. Do not ever minimise what he has done - if a stranger in the street came up to one of your children and nearly strangled them would you excuse it do to a bad childhood/tears/excuse that the perpetrator may spout?

I don't think you should let him come home until he can prove he has changed - sadly he won't change, I fear he will get progressively worse. Just because he books you into a fancy hotel or delivers a child that does not give him carte blanche to abuse you.

I have the same thing with the social life.

Try and plan your weekend night out a couple of weeks in advance so you've got something to look forward to, vary it too, cinema/pub/club/shopping trip etc. Build in things with the kids as well (but not instead of your 'me-time').

Look for spa day offers - my friend and I are going in a few weeks for a spa day - there are some good deals around. A day at the beach, picnic somewhere (when the weather's better!). Even just a long walk with a mate to blow the cobwebs away - all these will make you feel more human and capable.

I know, Lily, I am taking in everything you say.

I wouldn't ring the police because I don't like making a fuss, as it were. That's how he ended up delivering the baby in fact, because while he was saying "I think you should probably ring the midwife now" (planned home birth) I put it off because I didn't want to make a drama out of nothing. It's not easy.

Thank you, whattodo. I'm hoping to round up all the friends I've neglected and like you suggested will make dates with them in advance!

How did things go when you spoke to Women's Aid? Were they helpful?

Would you feel able to call them if you needed help in an emergency?