Dont love or fancy DH. He is kind and gentle. We have 4 kids. Should I stay?

[Kitttty]

No rows except when the frustration gets to me, or when he lets me down on tough life issues. He is very laid back, messy, unambitious - the opposite to me. After 30 years together (we met at school), 20 married, with a 7, 12, 13 and 15 year old - I just don't fancy him and I dint think I love him. I had a holiday in my own this time last year. I did not miss him one bit. We get on fine as friends we have many similar interests - but I would prefer to go out with my girlfriends. They make me laugh, entertain me and help me emotionally - he is emotionally inarticulate. Should I just gte through this until the kids are older for their sakes? I don't want anyone else.

I've seen many threads on here where adults Mumsnetters say they wish their parents had split up; that they would have far preferred it.

Yes I have too Margaret.

But it is quite stunning how few posters will argue it the other way round.

Staying together for the kids, as I said upthread, is ridiculed and dismissed on here. You get accused of martyrdom and told 'it's not the 1950s anymore' - especially from the bullish, intimidating and omnipresent posters on this board...

No wonder few posters dare put this other view across and there are no threads called 'I wish my parents hadn't split up'...

I was happier when my parents finally separated. My brothers and I felt angry, guilty and sad for years while they stayed together for the kids. Their choice to do so damaged us. The relationship wasn't even abusive or full of arguments, just very unhappy.

"I don't think I have ever seen one parent on Mumsnet that doesn't say their kids are happier post divorce. Convenient isn't it?"

Then you haven't been reading many posts. Plenty say how their kids struggle to begin with and many ask for advice on how to help their DCs make the transition. Yet more feature exes using DCs as pawns in a power struggle. It's all there if you care to look.

I'm sorry your parents mismanaged their break-up (and continue to manage it) in a way that affected you so badly but yours is by far from a universal experience. You were also a teenager when it happened and that's a point in life where everything is very emotionally black/white, good/bad and it's quite easy to get angry with the perceived unfairness of parents or the world in general without something like a divorce in the picture. Younger children are generally more accepting of their world as presented by parents and find it easier to adapt.

So not 'convenient' that there are more success stories than failures. More representative of the truth.

If you stay for the sake of the children what are you going to do when they leave? Spend the rest of your life in a situation you don't want? I find that children are even more upset if they go off to university and suddenly life as they knew it disappears, the family home goes and their parents relationship is shown to have been a sham.

Unless he was absolutely awful & my life was a complete misery I'd stay for the children's sake. Try & focus on hobbies etc & make a ( sort of ) seperate life for yourself, find happiness & fulfilment in your children/work/friends/books /whatever, but stay with your dh, honestly your children will be much happier. & you know what, if you stop expecting married life to be all happy & rosy like the adverts you might just enjoy it better.

I didn't get the impression OP was expecting life like the adverts.

Those of you saying the OP should stay, please do her the courtesy of reading the link she provided to her earlier thread. There is more to this than things just being a bit dull.

OP, you should go. As life goes on there will be more times when you will need him and he will most likely let you down time and time again. Yes, I think you should leave.

I can't believe some of these replies, have you all just stepped out of a time machine? We can all find examples of children who have suffered hugely from divorce and those who have been much happier, the upshot is that no one goes into marriage thinking that they'll end up divorcing. Children are human beings and if you've done your job well they'll care deeply about Mum and Dad and won't want either of them to be unhappy. To stay in a dead marriage for the sake of anyone else is a massive sacrifice and one that could go on for years, no adult would want the pressure of knowing someone has lived like this to save their feelings and children do turn into adults.

I think they OP should get some help and advice on how to help her youngest deal with Mum and Dad splitting up and then leave.

I'm surprised at all the responses telling her to 'put up and shut up'

People who say that must never have been in a desperately unhappy situation or they have but don't have enough self esteem to realise they deserve happiness.

My parents got divorced when I was 5 and my sister was 6. We still had a wonderful childhood, we have great relationships with our parents and 25 years later our parents still have a good relationship with each other.

My sister recently left her partner of 10 years, they have two children together, the oldest is 7 and the youngest is 4. Their home life was pretty bleak as my sister was so unhappy but felt she had to stay for the 'sake of the children'. The atmosphere in the house was always so tense and so forced - it was obvious to everyone, including the children. It was clear there was no love between my sister and their dad. The eldest child became very withdrawn at home and his behaviour really started to worsen - it was upsetting and everyone knew it was the dysfunctional environment that was doing it. I think it was seeing the change in her children that made my sister realise she had to leave. She left him 8 months ago and she is now like a different woman - she is happy and smiling again, she has met someone else and the difference in the children is unbelievable really. They are happier, they are more relaxed and her sons behaviour has improved no end. Leaving her ex was the best decision she made for both herself and the children.

Children aren't stupid, especially ones of the OP's ages - they know what's real and what isn't. Why teach them that staying in an unhealthy and unhappy relationship is what they should expect from life?

OP, whilst everyone else is having their say about the rights and wrongs of divorce when you have children, I read your link to your old thread and remember it well.

Its not just a case of "is the grass greener?" obviously. You must be full of resentment and exhausted, that is going to kill even a saint's emotions towards their partner . So, you took him back after kicking him out recently because of how devastated one of your dc was as well?

I am not saying ltb immediately, but people have for a lot less. Will he do the Relate thing so you can express just how close you are to finishing the marriage for good?

Cogito - yes my parents mismanaged their break up, it wasn't really managed at all in fact.

But it's not just that you know.

When parents separate so many things change for kids and nothing is within their control.

Often a child moves home, maybe school, they might have new step parents (possibly a succession of them but I don't want to get all Daily Mail about it...) who come along with new rules and a different way of living, their parents might be warring over the divorce, one or both parents might be struggling to cope emotionally or financially..there are so many variables.

So to those who wished their parents had split - you really don't know if it would have been better or worse.

motherofallhangovers - you are right, I am speaking more in general terms and perhaps i should have started a separate thread. Though would have been accused of starting a TAAT!

When you get married & have children it's no longer 'all about you' - maybe the op's dh is bored s**tless with married life too! but unless the situation is truly horrendous then I'd stay, especially if he's a good father, & she doesn't say he isn't? - all she's saying is he's laid back & her freinds make her laugh more. grounds for divorce if ever I heard them.

One might say that once you have children you have a duty to model healthy relationships...

navada she is not just bored, have you read her next post?

No, only read her opening post. sorry.

& the thread title where she describes him as 'kind & gentle'

motherofallhangovers

Thank you for the direction to that link, it paints an entirely different picture.

Though I don't quite understand why after that thread with all its detail and hence more helpful advice this one was required and why it was stripped down so much in this OP that it certainly appeared that the reason for considering leaving was that the marriage was dull.

It's clearly much more than that and based on what's within the other thread I no longer think that staying is necessarily the best course.

From what you have written on this thread OP I would say you both need to work your feelings through for the sake of the children.

From what you have written on the thread to which you have posted a link I would say that you are probably at the end of working it through and there needs to be fundamental change in all your lives. I'm not sure how leaving him though will help your son who has problems and I think you need to think carefully about how best to do that, possibly with some family therapy/counselling before any final decisions are made.

If you kept having children with him over such an extended period, presumably you felt love for him then. So what has changed? Can you find a way back to the love that made you want to keep having children with this man. I can't imagine I could have 4 children by someone I did't give a hoot about, so there must be something there worth reviving.

My parents are divorced and it was terrible and I screwed up my exams. To some extent that never stops. My dad died last year, we won't inherit our family home because it isn't our family home - it is his wife's home. She got to arrange everything for my darling dad's funeral. It is tough. My mum made a poor second marriage & I struggle with an alcoholic stepfather. Life would have been better for me & my sis emotionally & financially if they had stayed together, without a doubt. But obviously they were entitled to prioritise their own happiness & me and my sis had to pretend we were OK about that because they are the only parents we have, so we have no choice.

Divorce is shit for the kids, it should very much be a last resort.

I have only just read the link and I thought you should go after the OP, the link definitely makes it clear there is no future ,if he won't change.
I am a little surprised that the majority MN decision seems to be that if a man is abusive you must leave, but if you just made a mistake (however young you were at the time) you 'made your bed and so must lie on it' for ever!

OP here: I have found it difficult for many years. He is placid - hence no rows - just anger and frustration initiated from my end. I think I started to deeply detach 18 months ago - see this thread started 18 months ago - which I then revived with the most recent issue in Nov 2013. We separated before Christmas but my youngest was so distraught I let him back.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1599899-Is-being-an-avoider-a-marriage-deal-breaker

I have never fancied him although I did grow to love him - but I know that I don't love him now. I don't know what working at it would be like. Can you engineer love or a feeling that is not there?

How does it work if I choose to sit it out until the children leave home - couple of comments up thread have said it is worse to do this...does this mean I am trapped for life?
Sorry I realise my thread title is not helpful. During a good phase, our relationship is calm but shallow (I feel detached and dissatisfied but calm most of the time) as he is very mild mannered, intelligent and a devoted (but ineffectual) father. We get on fine when life is rosy but when life is tough his modus operandi (?) is head in the sand, avoider.

I get left to research and make all of the hard complex decisions which leaves me feeling both over loaded and solely responsible which is very pressurizing -- he is still like a teenager when it comes to money, financial decisions, parenting, discipline, emotional/educational decisions around the family. He chooses not to get informed so I am unable to sense check anything with him or get any support or direction or feel that anything is a joint decision. He shows no interest in what I am trying to achieve.

On the emotional/health side when I had severe pnd after my 3rd child in 3 years he just chose to spend all of his time out of the home -- he was out 4 nights a week at either football, tennis, committee meetings etc. When he was home (Fri and Sat nights) he drank very heavily, fell asleep and was "not available" as he was just so distant and introverted with major hangovers.

I was left to manage all 3 babies alone night after night which caused me to be really angry. We went to relate as I resented this behaviour but they "framed" it as his way of coping so I forgave him. However we have since had 3 further major crises - another child and another pnd, devastating sudden death of my mother and a most recently a major financial crisis which has endured for 18 months and requires house and schools move to resolve. The last two have tipped me back into depression. Again on all of these crisises he has not "been there" in any capacity. I have had to grieve alone (he was quite flippant about my grief) and have spent the last 18 months sorting overdrafts, loans, remortgages, school appeals, bailing out his company etc with zero interest or support from him. Additionally 2 of our 4 children are very challenging. My teenage son is aggressive and hits me whilst my husband stands by and watches, my daughter is sen also with severe bahavioral issues and her school and emotional health are another demand of my energy and time. I am the major breadwinner, work full time and exhausted. Time and time again he doesn’t step up. I feel disrespected and neglected but I feel guilty that I express this as massive frustration and anger when he is so mild mannered. My children say to me “why are you so mean to Dad”.

Ah ok that is quite different to your original post where he sounded kind and you found life a bit dull. In this instance well then yes you have to make a change.

ithaka - sorry you had a dreadful experience and I agree with everything you say.

I think you are right as well that your parents and many others prioritise their happiness over their children's.

It really is not often said on here - people are either afraid to hurt and offend others who have made the decision to divorce or are afraid of being ridiculed and shot down by the Kings and Queens of the Relationship board.

I am prioritising my children's happiness over my own (yes, yes 'martyr' blah blah - whatever, it's the TRUTH). I am not at all sure I'd still be married if we were child free.

My husband is a good bloke thank God but often I feel nothing for him - I feel bored, frustrated, angry with him over a build up of small, everyday things. Sometimes I feel no love for him for as long as a year at a time! But I chose to have kids with him and he has many great qualities. We work at it (terrible cliche but again true), we try and reconnect in different ways, we hang on and I am always so so glad we did when we've been through a bad slump.

I think you could do with some professional counselling, perhaps just you to start with. I feel very sorry for you because he has created his niche as 'kind, easy going, fun, daddy' and anything else will be 'your fault'- especially splitting up. This is why I think you need some outside help.