Dont love or fancy DH. He is kind and gentle. We have 4 kids. Should I stay?

[Kitttty]

No rows except when the frustration gets to me, or when he lets me down on tough life issues. He is very laid back, messy, unambitious - the opposite to me. After 30 years together (we met at school), 20 married, with a 7, 12, 13 and 15 year old - I just don't fancy him and I dint think I love him. I had a holiday in my own this time last year. I did not miss him one bit. We get on fine as friends we have many similar interests - but I would prefer to go out with my girlfriends. They make me laugh, entertain me and help me emotionally - he is emotionally inarticulate. Should I just gte through this until the kids are older for their sakes? I don't want anyone else.

It is very hard when your partner leaves you to be the 'adult' one in a relationship and in your case it sounds like you have to do all the adult stuff and earn the money. I must admit I have some similar issues but my DH will step up when made to/has got better over time and (importantly) has always paid his own way. I was at the part in your previous post where you also had to bail out his company. My DF also has certain 'vaguely disassociate while family stuff goes on around him' characteristics, but again, has always earned plenty and managed the finances and house maintenance, so at least that was taken care of. I can't see why your DH would want to change though - he has a sweet deal doesn't he? Sounds like he's one of those types who somehow manages to get sympathy from others too. Poor you!

Posted before I saw your latest post OP.

I'm really sorry, you sound at the end of your tether and have much to contend with - and I feel for you so much.

I agree you should maybe seek counselling for yourself and work through this .

You sound exhausted, quite understandably. I would normally tend toward the "stay for the sake of the kids" camp but if you can afford to, I think you should go.

There is much more to this than boredom and unhappiness.

A few years ago I could have written your post. I've been with dp for 30 years. We have one dd. We used to get along fine until she was born: similar interests, similar outlooks etc. Not a bed of roses, but what relationship is?

He's a great dad-when it suits-but otherwise the relationship is rocky, with a good deal of resentment (on my part mainly), compounded by frustration at what I see as his lack of engagement in our relationship. I've had counselling; he's in denial.

I can't afford to leave, so I've worked hard at making my life better, thus taking the pressure off trying to make a dead-in-the-water relationship work. We sleep separately (his choice) but the situation is tolerable, at least.

I completely empathise with your frustration. You do everything, including earning the bulk if the money. This must be so hard. Your H should at least be supporting you in making important decisions.

Personally, I don't see him changing. Why should he? He's getting an easy life, thanks to you.Counselling hasn't worked either. If this man can't see why you are angry and frustrated, then perhaps you shouldn't waste any more time on him. He's failing to step up, and you are the one beating yourself up.

Find a way of helping your dcs through it, and go.

Agree with those who say you should not stay just for the children. Your situation sounds a bit like the one I grew up in - father physically present but completely uninterested; home was his personal hotel. Me and my brother desperately wished they would divorce; we felt dreadful knowing we were the reason they would not.

It must be hard that your youngest was upset when he left, but they were not fully aware of the reality. Anyway my convoluted point here is: I think it's been like this long enough for you to trust your feelings.

Well that explains your posts ILove

OP my XH left four years ago when my DC were 10 and 13 . We spoke about how we could have soldiered on until they left home but thankfully he had the courage to decide to move out.

We both did everything possible to make it ok for our DC and yes I am sure if they could tick a box that has their Mum and Dad holding hands and smiling into each other's eyes they would . Yes they would be happier with us still together in that form but they know it wasn't like that. I doubt any unhappy parents are able to live in a way that says they are content if they are not. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about how DC living in an unhappy home are affected particularly with all the other variables in this world. I expect some fare ok and others not just like in divorce.

I do think being a parent doesn't mean you are no longer entitled to expect happiness and that everything is sacrificed on the altar of your DCs happiness. Of course nobody should end a marriage on a whim but when one person becomes deeply unhappy with no chance of love returning and their own mental well being starts deteriorating then I think it's time to call it a day

I can't climb in my own DCs minds and I know in the last four years there have been sadness at times but unfortunately that's life - imperfect . We have done all the usual things to ease the transition and fortunately had the money that their material lives are unaffected . They go to the same school, have the same friends see their Dad who lives 5 minutes away all the time. XH and I are still very much their parents but not under the same roof. They are both thriving at school and seem to be happy well balanced kids even though I am sure they have their private thoughts on our divorce.

Finally I would add my parents divorced when I was very young and that had a big effect on me mainly because of the way they both were. XH has parents married 45 years who are very devoted to one another. Frankly XH is an unhappy angry individual who doesn't enjoy happiness whereas I am pretty ok really . I draw my own conclusions from that.

Clearly there is more going on then the original post suggests. But without wishing to sound sanctimonious (really), I will not understand people who will marry a man they do not fancy and have to wait for the love to "grow", and then go on to have child after child with him. Again, something seen time and time again on this board, I will be teaching my daughters to choose carefully.

Vivien - The differences in the two threads is:

1. When we are rubbing along in an OK phase like now -ie this thread - no rows etc - but I know it is a sham and can hide my feelings for the sake of the children - and on my post I in fact asked for advice on how I could achieve hanging on for the sake of the children....

2. The other earlier thread was when I was in crisis - dealing with tough times - in the same repeated pattern each time and yes I did ask for advice - and I TOOK IT (to separate) and thanked all the MNers who got me through this crisis.

Where I am now is that I let him back as my youngest was the most visibly distraught. I now feel I empty - I think the v best I can do is commit to hang on until they are older - I cannot see how I can revive any love. I am not a bolter - my problem on reflection is more about being over loyal, over forgiving, over giving.

Ithaka - I assumed that my gentle, kind, intelligent husband would be a wonderful father and we planned a big busy family with 4 children. He partly is - but is "weak" (his words/excuse could also read lazy) - so discipline is a massive issue which he cant deal with. I had 3 children under 3 - all was fine until the 3rd was born - when I developed pnd and he ran away physically and emotionally - I was devastated about how he abandoned me and I took us to Relate - I forgave him as Relate framed it as his way of coping with my emotional state/pnd. When I thought we were back on track - we had our 4th child (note the 5 year age gap). But life then took a much tougher unexpected path - two of the older children have significant behavior and sen issues, got pnd for the 2nd time, my darling mother died a horrific death and we ended up in major financial crisis. I have dealt with each of these issues alone - and he has frequently undermined what I have put in place - so triples my work load...eg if I put in a behaviour boundary or consequence - he will undo it - eg give them back their mobile phones that I have confiscated....because he needs to be liked.

To the teeth - I thought I had chosen very carefully - I really wanted the stable big happy family and I assumed that my gentle, kind, intelligent husband would be a wonderful father and husband and we planned a big busy family with 4 children....

I think that I looked first for kindness and good father potential (even at 15) and put this alongside my loyalty and over forgiving nature, above my own emotional needs (which I wasn't actually aware of or maybe suppressed). But the proof of the pudding etc. I backed the wrong horse - he isn't the parent or husband I assumed he would be. He hasn't been able to support the family in tough times - or even the day to day discipline/parenting stuff.

My apologies Kitty, saying about why a second thread? was unnecessary and wrong. Hard times for you.

Thanks Vivien - I really appreciate your understanding. I think where I am now is that I have tried really hard to "accept the way he is" -- ie have no expectations that he will engage or contribute to the hard stuff - I have tried to banish the "frustration" by lowering my expectations....I thought that during the quiet times I could just mosey along. But the resentment is just under the surface in the non crisis times despite the rictus-smile.

fedup - you are me!...that is exactly my situation. I do feel it is dead in the water. I have initiated every attempt to fix - he is in denial. I need to build my own separate life under this roof. I can afford to separate but as my original Q - I am trying to stick it out for the sake of the kids.

Bloody hell i read your post last page about your major issues - what a lazy prick - sorry there is being 'laid back' and just plain lazy or head in sand. I am not surprised you feel neglected and disrespected.

He sounds like a freeloader, leech sucking. You are not in a marriage (equal team players) you are in parent/child roles.

I can almost feel your need to run, scream and breath away from this to get from underneath the resentment.

No I dont think you need to stick it out for the sake of the kids because:

a. you can parent your 4 real children better when you dont have to parent the kidult

b. You will gain self respect, your DC will see not to accept this template for their future relationships.

c. I think tbh this is going to continue to have a negative effect on you and this does affect your ability to parent effectively

FWIW I was on my own for little during a trial separation - I found it a very liberating experience.

After looking at some threads on the difficulties faced by blended families and threads on the difficulties faced by single parents I know that personally I would not leave in the circumstance faced by the OP until the children were living away from home. I truly love my husband now but for a long, long time there was absolutely no spark between us and we were barely coasting along. I was totally unwilling to live with the status quo nor was he so we talked and talked and had deeply painful conversations and eventually made things work. Marriage does have to be worked at during some phases and I am really glad DH and I bothered because it brought us back to where we needed to be. I do believe in staying for the kids during their formative years never in abuse or violence situations but once that phase is over I would not see the sense in living in a joyless marriage.

Sorry I realise I missed half of the thread and things have moved along OP apologies.

Going by this thread and your previous one you posted I do think it's time to call it a day. I don't agree with always staying together unless DV/EA abuse. My mum and Dad split when I was 10/11. My mum was clearly not in love with my Dad anymore, she never showed him affection, they argued all the time, she was always out with her friends and didn't want to be near my Dad. Even when she was at her best "pretending" the tension in the house was always there. I was much happier when she left. Not saying all kids would pick up on things like that but I certainly did and sometimes it is for the best.

I don't think there's any coming back for this marriage. You can stick it out if you want, but what would you advise your children to do in your situation? I wouldn't want my daughter to 'stick it out for the kids'. I'd want her to have the chance to be happy.
I was in a marriage where I wasn't happy, but didn't feel like I had the right to leave as he wasn't 'that bad' (dismissive, lazy, completely unhelpful as a parent), I didn't fancy him and loved him but wasn't 'in love' with him.
Eventually my situation changed so that I felt justified in leaving. We have remained friendly and our daughter sees us both lots and is visibly more relaxed and happier with us both in separate houses. We didn't argue lots but the atmosphere was not what I would have wanted for her to grow up in.
I understand people saying you should stay, but I am much much happier, and a better parent, when I am not stressed about my relationship. I have also had the chance to create a new relationship with someone I truly fancy and adore and love to pieces. I can't believe how close I came to denying myself that opportunity.
All the best.

I think with holding affection is a form of abuse not that I think this OP's DH is, he's just well absent isnt he.

Its not good to be faced with rejection on an emotional level week after week.

On what level does the DH think it is ok to enable the eldetst son to hit her and show her such disregard?

There is such a thing a neglect through omission (be it physical or psychological) and I think he neglects his obvious paretnal duties. The OP gets it all.

I haven't posted what I said lightly up thread - we did seperate and worked bloody hard to get it back together (one young DC at time) so I know you can cme bac from the brink. But this DH is absent - he is a kidult anyway.

When I read your title, OP, 'he's kind and gentle', my response was... hmm, I bet he's not. Or not to you, anyway. Nobody sounds as desolate as you do when they're with someone who is essentially kind.

And he's not kind at all, is he? He doesn't participate in any adult decisions, and is quite happy to let you shoulder the full burden, with all the stress that involves. He has no conscience about that at all, it seems.

When you were unwell, with three children - HIS children - he ran away to socialise or get drunk. Still no conscience, apparently. No guilt feelings at all, about leaving you like that?

He hasn't supported you through the latest serious crises....and is even flippant about your grief. What kind of man is this? It seems he has no empathy either. He even lets your son physically abuse you. Just watches!

If he's succeeded in convincing people that he's kind and gentle, when he's actually passive, quite cruel and severely lacking in conscience, he must be quite a manipulator too.

Don't wait this one out, OP, you need your strength and sanity. You've done enough.

At 25 I left a man who was kind, easy going & a good parent. He was 'dull' and I didn't fancy him. At 40 I can see that kindness & an easy going nature should never be underestimated. Lust & passion eventually wear off even in the most passionate relationships.

If I could go back & tell my 25yr ols self anything it would be that butterflies in the stomach & fancying the arse off someone is no replacement for reliability & kindness in a person.

If you read it properly the reliability and kindness simply isn't there- or not when she really needs it!

You haven't done yourself justice in your first post on this thread OP
It sounded as if you were married to a kind and considerate man and just wanted out because there was no romance or sexual excitement.No wonder you got a lot of flack.
He isn't kind though,is he? He is weak and lazy. You have lowered your expectations and feel resentful. When you loose your temper you look like the one in the wrong.
If you are going to stay I think you need to raise your expectations and tell him what you need in a cool and calm way. Perhaps relate could help here. If he doesn't raise his game and start to take grown-up responsibilities I think it is over.
I know he can't change everything overnight and he will never be dynamic but you need to set some achievable expectations and hold him accountable.

drudge....your post has just made the penny drop - you are correct - he is not kind to me - he might make me a cup of tea and he has never shouted at me in 30 years but when I need proper support he is not there....I am mistaking his mild mannered temperament for kindness....and I do feel the guilt deeply and look like the guilty one to my children when I get exhausted, cross, frustrated, frazzled and overloaded.

When we were separated we went for coffee after I had escorted my son to the police station to be charged for assaulting me. The hardest action I have had to take in my life. We barely spoke just sat there reading the papers and he comes out with his classic line "see we do get on really great - we are not arguing now - just having a lovely time"....I was not speaking as I was in deep shock after leaving the police station. I had just reported my son after 2+ years of assault....the final straw/assault involved my husband pulling my son off me after he had punched me to the floor - putting him in the car and taking him to football. I had assumed he had taken my son out of the situation and would come back to pick me up off the utility room floor. But he didn't he chose to stay (as he loves to do) watching the football game and cheering on the abuser. By the time he was due back I had left to seek comfort at my sisters -- he did not contact me all day. when I returned later and approached my son to demand an explanation, apology and put in place a consequence - my son denied everything saying he didn't touch me - at this point I called in my husband to confirm what had happened and my husband said he had not seen anything.

You are married. You promised to stay with him for ever. That means forever - not just as long as it is convenient for you .Do your marriage vows mean nothing to you?

I'm sorry Klingyston but have you not read the thread, just the title? I hope that's the case.