Dont love or fancy DH. He is kind and gentle. We have 4 kids. Should I stay?

[Kitttty]

No rows except when the frustration gets to me, or when he lets me down on tough life issues. He is very laid back, messy, unambitious - the opposite to me. After 30 years together (we met at school), 20 married, with a 7, 12, 13 and 15 year old - I just don't fancy him and I dint think I love him. I had a holiday in my own this time last year. I did not miss him one bit. We get on fine as friends we have many similar interests - but I would prefer to go out with my girlfriends. They make me laugh, entertain me and help me emotionally - he is emotionally inarticulate. Should I just gte through this until the kids are older for their sakes? I don't want anyone else.

Another one who agrees with Vivian and Ewan McGregor's wife.

The children are key in this. Life is about way, way more than sexual satisfaction. Putting that sole aspect of life ahead of the stability and happiness of your children is unthinkable to me.

Marriage is about far more than sexual desire too. But that doesn't mean you should put up with the status quo. And I don't underestimate how tough it is to be married to someone you don't desire. There's no reason why you should sleep with him if he is so unattractive and makes no effort to be otherwise. What would happen if you let him know how off-putting his lethargy is? Can you imagine finding him attractive again if he changed - became more dynamic?

The thing is, you feel - very reasonably - a massive dissatisfaction with this one, important area of your life. And it's not one you can find an easy solution to, because you don't want to be unfaithful (by the sounds of it.) But don't underestimate how draining and difficult life would be if you moved. Guilt drains, the anger and hurt drains, the judgement drains, the unhappiness you have willingly brought on your children drains. Having no one around to do all those things you take for granted is draining. You'll be poorer, more exhausted, live in a smaller house, have less control over when you see your children and what input they have day to day.

If you truly consider all these things and know you'd still rather be free, then tell him how deeply the marriage is in trouble and take it from there. Lots of people do split up and find an amicable solution. I think a lot of them kid themselves that it was for the better for the children too. But, everyone survives.

It's not something I understand, if I'm honest. I don't get the desire to trash a stable marriage just because it's dull. But people do it. You wouldn't be the first and maybe some will come onto this thread to explain the pros to you because most of us here seem to be against it and I guess you are hoping for a more balanced range of opinions. (And sorry but the opinions of an unmarried person without kids doesn't count for much here.)

Another one who agrees with Vivian and Ewan McGregor's wife.

The children are key in this. Life is about way, way more than sexual satisfaction. Putting that sole aspect of life ahead of the stability and happiness of your children is unthinkable to me.

Marriage is about far more than sexual desire too. But that doesn't mean you should put up with the status quo. And I don't underestimate how tough it is to be married to someone you don't desire. There's no reason why you should sleep with him if he is so unattractive and makes no effort to be otherwise. What would happen if you let him know how off-putting his lethargy is? Can you imagine finding him attractive again if he changed - became more dynamic?

The thing is, you feel - very reasonably - a massive dissatisfaction with this one, important area of your life. And it's not one you can find an easy solution to, because you don't want to be unfaithful (by the sounds of it.) But don't underestimate how draining and difficult life would be if you moved. Guilt drains, the anger and hurt drains, the judgement drains, the unhappiness you have willingly brought on your children drains. Having no one around to do all those things you take for granted is draining. You'll be poorer, more exhausted, live in a smaller house, have less control over when you see your children and what input they have day to day.

If you truly consider all these things and know you'd still rather be free, then tell him how deeply the marriage is in trouble and take it from there. Lots of people do split up and find an amicable solution. I think a lot of them kid themselves that it was for the better for the children too. But, everyone survives.

It's not something I understand, if I'm honest. I don't get the desire to trash a stable marriage just because it's dull. But people do it. You wouldn't be the first and maybe some will come onto this thread to explain the pros to you because most of us here seem to be against it and I guess you are hoping for a more balanced range of opinions. (And sorry but the opinions of an unmarried person without kids doesn't count for much here.)

Bloody hell.... Talk about mass guilt-tripping into making someone staying married regardless! I'm still not clear what the let-down on tough life issues refers to but I don't think the OP is going to come back in the face of these accusations of selfishness.

OP... if it's bad enough that you're even thinking 'should I stay?' then there's something wrong that goes beyond a little dullness or boredom.

I'd just like to remind everyone there have been many threads on here asking whether posters wish their parents had stayed together for the kids. The majority say no. Recent thread here.

It's not a representative sample. It's only the kids who grew up to have families of their own and grow into functional MNners.

Let's not start pretending divorce doesn't negatively affect children.

Thank you Ria some of this made me feel like crap and it's rare that happens

Ria yes, however the majority of those children were growing up in homes where there was abuse and or constant arguments, not where their mum didn't fancy their dad any more.
Divorce does affect children you need to be very sure staying together would affect them more.

I'm sure the vast majority of children would prefer their parents to be happy and together. But when the options are happy or together I think a lot would choose happy. I don't know whether the OP and her dh are very unhappy, or if they could be happy again, but I disagree that the nuclear family is required for a good childhood.

I think those saying "stay" are saying it in terms of "is it really that bad? And what do you really think it would be better without him?".

For what it's worth I do think people give up on marriage more easily these days. It's more sociably acceptable to get divorced. I say this as a 33 year old with divorced parents. I can see that my parents were not right for each other and whilst I thought they had a pretty amicable split and I was relatively unscathed emotionally (I was 7yo at the time) I think it's affecting me more now as an adult.

I'm not saying the OP should stay for the kids. Nor am I saying ages giving in too easily but if we are talking about what someone "should or shouldn't" do then I'm with the previous poster who said its vitally important to only have children with someone you can do your very very best to stick it out with...

As for what OP should do. Well in all hinesty, and without knowing the full facts, it sounds like she's reached a stale part of her life and is looking for someone to blame for it. I'm not surprised that with 4 children you're not at it all the time and well you've probably both got a bit complacent but it doesn't yet sound like you've tried REALLY hard to get out of this rut, just that you can't be bothered and think there is more excitement out there.

Two things spring to mind - "the grass is greener" and Bridget Jones's mum.

Jesus, the sanctimony on this thread

All you 'one life for everyone' folks, you do realise that it's entirely possible for kids to have divorced parents and then go on to have 50-60 years of happiness nevertheless?

My parents are divorced. It's really not a problem. I'm glad they split up because they married young and are completely different people and it would have been a nightmare growing up with their clashing.

I know a lot of people with divorced parents actually. Most of us have gone on to have, well, normal lives.

The idea that our mothers should have sacrificed decades of their own happiness just so that we could be, what, slightly more normal and happier? is crazy.

I don't think it's a decision to take lightly. I think the OP should probably get some counseling and really talk things over with a neutral person and decide what she wants to do.

But of course women are allowed to leave unhappy marriages. I think there is a responsibility to do it in a way that creates the least trauma and upheaval for the children, but there are lots of ways to do that.

"Let's not start pretending divorce doesn't negatively affect children."

It's not whether a couple stay together or split up that negatively affects children, it's the environment the children grow up in. Couples that stay together for the kids but are chronically miserable or unpleasant to each other are just as unhealthy a role model as those that part company and behave acrimoniously thereafter. Couples that behave amicably/civilly, whether under the same roof or apart, are going to have a better chance of happy, stable kids.

Do all the people saying 'stay' have really blah marriages?

Because I'm very happily married and the idea that someone should waste the only life they had in a meh marriage and miss out on the possibility (even if slight) of having what dh and I have breaks my heart.

In part, it was seeing our marriage that made my sister realise that what she had wasn't 'the real thing'. And to whoever asked, yes she did try to work on it and it usually got better for a little and then they both fell back into the same old patterns and it got worse again.

I agree.

It's dysfunctionality that affects children, whether parents are married or not.

My parents are divorced, DH's parents have been married for 40 years. I'd say we're about equally screwed up by our upbringings.

Children also learn their relationship behaviour from their parents. If they see parents who 'settle' into a fairly unhappy life, they are more likely to end up in the same kind of situation themselves.

We should at least try to model good relationships for them, even if they don't quite work out.

A marriage breaking down is hard for the kids.

That's a given.

By the time the 'stay or go' decision has to be made, the marriage is usually over.

So it's a choice between live the truth, or live a lie, after that.

I can't see how the latter could have been better for my children.

Completely agree with Cog

I have found it difficult for many years. He is placid - hence no rows - just frustration from my end. I think I started to deeply detach 18 months ago - issues on this thread started 18 months ago - which I revived with the most recent issue in Nov 2013. We separated before Christmas but my youngest was so distraught I let him back.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1599899-Is-being-an-avoider-a-marriage-deal-breaker

I have never fancied him although I did grow to love him - but I know that I don't love him now. I don't know what working at it would be like. Can you engineer love or a feeling that is not there?

How does it work if I choose to sit it out? I think I have detached because I know that whatever issue comes our way I will have to deal with it alone.

I really dislike cucumber. You could sit me in a room with a gun at my head and demand that I worked at enjoying cucumber... and I might eat a few slices and make some yum-yum noises out of sheer self-preservation, but I'd be hating every minute. No you can't engineer love out of nothing.

Nether can you work at repairing a relationship single-handed. It has to be a collaborative effort with everyone having the same objective i.e. creating a happy, loving atmosphere. There is nothing lonelier than being with someone you don't like. Being on your own, ironically, is less lonely.

Don't you dare call it sanctimony, bohemian.

On what grounds do you have the audacity to say that?

I feel with all my heart and soul that it is wrong to separate if you have children (as long as it is not a desperately unhappy union or there is EA or DV or both etc) if it is a matter of things being 'stale'. How dare anyone put their own 'happiness' in front of their dc's happiness? How dare you call that sanctimonious!

What parent is so foolish as to imagine their own happiness has no impact on their children's?

I read the other thread.

He completely neglects your relationship, shows you no care and expects you to run the house/family. It is clearly more than "just don't fancy him". He's watched you run yourself into the ground quite passively. No wonder you are miserable, I'm surprised you aren't bitter.

I'd leave. And make sure he steps up in the parenting in the process.

(we met at school)

This says it all.

You never got (took) the chance to experience life on your own, so now you are ready for that by the sounds of it.

There is no rule that says you have to stay together forever (that was the 50's, and before). Thank God we are out of that now.

I personally don't believe in "staying for the kids". Resentment in a toxic marriage is very damaging for them. More so than being happily single bringing up your child in a harmonious household.

I know. Been there done it.

"How dare anyone put their own 'happiness' in front of their dc's happiness?"

How dare anyone demand automatic martyrdom in others just because they have children... It has to be a balance with the pros and cons weighed up. The OP sounds as though they are doing exactly that and of course their happiness, peace of mind and self-respect are important.

I am amazed at the number of people saying just carry on, put up with dull. I think you need to think seriously about it, because of the children, but you do need to make changes. I would sit down and have a talk, tell him how you feel- ask how he feels. See if he is willing to make changes. He might surprise you and you can move forward, differently. You could try Relate.
If he had no desire for change, doesn't understand the need and just wants to go forward as you are then you need to consider your options.
You have children for a very short time, your eldest may well be going in less than 3 years- your poor youngest could end up alone with the pair of you in a dysfunctional marriage for 5 years. It is rather hidden with 4 children in the house, it will be more exposed with only one teenager.
Mine have all gone now and it is just the two of us, our time for fun and doing the things we want to do, unbearable if we were in your situation because we could have another 30 years or so!
If you have similar interests you could work on that- it depends on if he wants to.

Well it seems those who choose to leave 'dull' marriages will always choose to package speaking out against that as 'sanctimonious martyrdom'.

That makes me angry.

It hurts to hear your choices may have damaged your children. I don't think I have ever seen one parent on Mumsnet that doesn't say their kids are happier post divorce. Convenient isn't it?

Of course every individual situation is difficult and I do agree it's how the split is handled that is key to the childrens' long term adjustment and well being.

I can't say that if my parents had've stayed together it would have been better for my sisters and me, but I can say that all three of us were angry, felt guilty, really really sad - and still carry this 30 years on. And I'm not even talking about a particularly acrimonious divorce.

I also know RL marriages where I think the woman (just happens to be that way round) should leave - because they are in borderline abusive and terribly dysfunctional and unhappy relationships. Will their dc be happier if they split? I don't know but in these scenarios I can't see any way round this.