In a really bad place wth DH and DS

[saffronwblue]

Married 16 years, DS is 15. Their relationship is just deteriorating as DH is continually bullying, nitpicking and belittling DS. He does not see how hurt DS is by the way he speaks to him and how damaged their relationship is. I spend all my time facilitating between them, trying to keep the peace and feeling dreadful. I don't want to go on like this. DH refuses to see that any of this is his problem. He thinks DS should just be more compliant and obedient and does not see that he has thrown away DS's respect by being so full of bluster and meanness.
If he was a stepfather I would separate. But he is DS's own father and I don't want to break up the family if we don't have to. I don't know what sort of message DS would get from that. We also have a 12 year old DD ( who has ASD) and is very sensitive to atmosphere. Would they both be happier if we split up? Would I? Or is this normal teenage adjustment and DH and I will end up happy ever after again?
I am so sad, angry and confused. We just had a scene at dinner where DS was chatting happily about his day. DH just started roaring at him about his table manners. Everyone ended the meal in stunned and angry silence.

Thanks Rainie. I have been searching on MN and have found a couple of old threads with similar situations. It is just awful, isn't it? We have been together 17 years and have had so many happy and loving times as a family and as a couple. it is just all suddenly unravelling.

I feel for you, OP.

Ive read this thread from the beginning. Your husband is a cruel man. He is distressing the children particularly DS. Eroding your DS self-esteem in this way is going to cause him harm, and your DH absolutely refuses to take any responsibility as he doesn't care. I don't care what he's been through or what he is angry about or whats on his mind; lots of us go through some real trauma and heartache, we don't have the right to round on our children because of that. Ive found this thread upsetting I cant bear to think of your DS being treated like this, and his dad just fucking around with your family lives, hellbent on continuing his obnoxious behaviour. Im ever loath to say LTB but he needs to be out on his ear, nothing else will teach him a lesson. Even though he'd probably roar that DS is being put before him. He KNOWS what he is doing. I bet he doesnt shout at people generally in his working or social life. What about your DS, who has the right to a happy, safe, secure family and home environment? He will resent his dad as years go by, and quite possibly resent you, for not getting him out of a distressing situation. I know it would be hard to leave him. Id hate to have to make that choice, especially if marriage was ok before. But no relationship is worth your childrens' happiness and I have a mind if you don't put them 1st you'll have years of regret to come. Somehow you sound a strong and focused woman, who is trying to sort out an unreasonable situation in a good and logical way. Well done to you. You and your children deserve better than to have a bullying man blighting your lives. The tension must be terrible. Put yourself and your children 1st..youll feel better for it in the end.

Saffron I go out to work while my husband is a SAHP. DH tells me that our 14 year old son is afraid of me, as I always seem to be grumpy. I don't mean it, and I don't feel that grumpy but that is how it comes across. I have just started to make more of an effort and also talked to DS saying I wanted us to get on, and so far it is working. I do feel DH is soft on DS, and maybe I take it out on DS, when it isn't his fault.

Your DH may have difficulty like me in recognising that teenage kids are difficult but ultimately we have to realise that we are the adults, and to appreciate the periods when they are sunny and not take personally the periods when they are not...

I have also been very busy at work until recently which has given me a shorter fuse than normal, and I did feel left out by their closeness, while I was working hard and feeling a bit lonely.

So maybe all that,and perhaps more, is in play with your DH. Have (another) quiet word with him.

I do hope the medical care works, and that you have a good weekend away.

Well his "turning over a new leaf" did not last long did it?. Sorry but I did not think it would and infact his nastiness towards the children has now further escalated.

I read he is away for two days now at a conference; use these two days wisely and seek legal advice for your own self. The children absolutely must not be further subjected to his berating and verbal abuse of them. It is already damaging them and will damage them both further if this is at all allowed to continue.

This will also affect you as well in that your own relationship with them could well be damaged beyond repair. They will not thank you for staying with someone like this if you choose to do so and will wonder of you why you put your H before them. You will not be visited by either of them as adults, they will go out of their way as well to avoid any interaction with you whatsoever. Do not think that would not happen to you.

Re this comment:-
"DH comes from a family where angry outbursts are legendary. His uncle kicked over a tv once because his teenage children were not listening to him. His cousin threw a Wii out of the window because his teenage DC were arguing over it. The whole family laughs merrily over these incidents".

Such men do not change; his wider family background is also dysfunctional. Its no real surprise that he is really the same as the rest of his family and I bet that none of them ever wanted to have any counselling sessions either. Your H still does not feel that he is at heart doing anything wrong and is actually blaming your good self instead. Counselling and family therapy are all very well and good but I would put a crisp fiver on it that he would never attend any sessions.

What an awful situation perhaps he's defensive because he knows its wrong I think that's a positive sign if he does but only he can change it

Is he suffering from jealousy because your son is coming into his own as a young man

Is he threatened by this emotionally ?

Family therapy may help sounds like your DH had a terrible up bringing and it's rearing its ugly head now

It was very similar for me. My ex was always very strict and controlling around the kids and sometimes physically rough, but once they became older (probably about 10 onwards) it got much worse. Constant bellowing, criticising, making new rules, it was just miserable. I tried and tried to help to fix it. One morning at 6am I heard a huge commotion from the kitchen. My 15 year old had tried to leave the house without having breakfast. It had descended into a physical squabble which ended with my ex holding my son against the wall by his throat. We separated not long after that.

The kids were damaged, took me a couple of years to realise how much. I so wish I had left sooner. They are doing okay now, but might have done better if I had been a better mum and got them away from him faster.

Those two days away will give you breathing space.

I haven't asked before, saffron, he's not drinking is he?

What's he like driving these days, does he have a short fuse on public roads too?

Pressure at work can be hideous but home is normally a sanctuary. It might be tied up with feeling out of control or under-valued at work. Perhaps trying to control the uncontrollable at work sees him resort to being super critical at home.

To me, bellowing at the dinner table is seriously bad manners: it's the kind of behaviour that ensures that you never get invited back.

I once attended a job interview dinner with another candidate who stuck his knife in his mouth but was very pleasant. He got the job. I don't suppose he would have if he'd been throwing his weight about.

Your dh needs to think seriously about what kind of behaviour he is modelling to his sons.

Lots of food for thought here thanks everyone and no, thank goodness alcohol is not much in our lives.

Hi saffron and others. I am in the same situation with 2dcs oldest 12. Dh and I's relationship has been unravelling for a number of years but he has now turned his attention to the dcs, my oldest dc especially and roars, belittles etc and then blames me for not discipling them and for not supporting him. I could have written many of the posts on here myself, esp table manners etc!

I have posted before and had good advice and I really want to leave now but its not easy and with the exception of one friend, everyone will be amazed as we appear to have a perfect life from the outside!

xx

Sorry to hear things are continuing to so badly. There are two things that strike me here - He is also being very unpleasant to you too, he really wants to be Lord and Master and family life can't work like that.

The other thing is that last week he seemed to be more open to the issues and trying to begin tackling them - this week you're back to square one where he thinks he's the one having a hard time. Was he just trying to placate you? The 'I love you' text today seems to be another attempt at that. He behaves badly, make the right noises then back he goes.

I think the change in atmosphere in your home while he isn't there will tell you a lot. Enjoy spending some time with your dcs. I feel for you all.

Just caught up with this thread as it resonates with my own childhood a lot. I could almost cry when I hear about poor kids stuck with fathers like this, slowly but surely eroding their self-esteem while mum stands by and essentially does nothing to protect them. I hesitate to say this but you really are both as bad - him for doing it, you for standing by and allowing it to happen. Tragic.

mine too, grand

If you've been in the marriage for this length of time and things have been ok in the past it is extremely difficult to just walk out and let go. I really do understand this, always trying to establish what's going on because something has obviously happened BUT it still doesn't mean it should continue and I usually argue with DH after I object and tell him he's unreasonable. I know I don't feel for him the way I used to and I look at him with confusion and disgust. He has basically left me to 'deal with' any behaviour issues the kids have and I'm happy with this but it's made him sulk and complain like a child himself because I 'do it wrong' His childhood was similar to the one your DH mentioned Saffron and they probably do need help. However they are adults and should be able to discover these things for themselves?!? ......you would think??? I can't ever just keep my mouth shut when he does go off on one but it's not a nice atmosphere to be in. That's why I'm going to tell him I've had enough of him and want him to leave( I'm not) If that doesn't push him to "sort it" then I've lost nothing and gained our sanity.
I really wish you all the love and strength I have, you are not a bad person and if you weren't worried about your kids you wouldn't have posted. It's horrible and everyone here is there with you in spirit. Think of that when you need strength. Ask him to stop. Tell him what will happen if he doesn't. "The most courageous act is still to think for yourself - aloud" - Coco Chanel. Much love. Xxxx

Grr just wrote and lost a long post. It is all a bit calmer here. H made an effort last night and it was nice. DS spent time with him getting a lesson on shaving and they seemed at ease together. Listening to them chatting companionably I thought why can't it always be like this?
H had to call DD's psychologist today about an appointment time ( DD sees her to deal with anxiety etc.) He told her that he is having difficulties and asked if there was someone she could recommend for him to see. He has now headed off to his conference.
I had a great long talk with a RL friend who went through something similar - although it was step-parenting. She stayed with her partner and is still not sure if it was the right thing to do. I felt much better for talking to her - nothing beats an old friend who has been around for every stage of your life.
He's back on Sunday night. I am going to keep thinking. I have been on so many threads where no-one can understand why the Op still stays. Can't believe I am becoming that person.
Rainie I can feel how similar our situations are. Love the Chanel quote.

Grand and Any I am not ignoring your input and I am deeply grateful to you both for sharing your own stories.

Ending a relationship isn't easy, even when there is abuse and everyone else can see it would be better to get out. At the end of the day, it is hard when you have to make the choice.

I spent several years too long with my ex. I took the abuse over and over but as soon as it impacted directly on ds I knew we had to get out. It was as hard as hell (in a practical sense) but the relief I felt as I left that day was incredible. I'm still proud I walked out, although I lost a lot financially. But I'm still annoyed I didn't find the strength to do it sooner.

Good luck, saffron. You are the one in a position to weigh up what is best for your family

I note your dd is seeing a psychologist for anxiety. What is the root of that ?

That is promising saffron if H consults a professional about his angry outbursts.

with the exception of one friend, everyone will be amazed as we appear to have a perfect life from the outside!

As gremlindolphin says everything can look calm on the surface. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

"H had to call DD's psychologist today about an appointment time ( DD sees her to deal with anxiety etc.) He told her that he is having difficulties and asked if there was someone she could recommend for him to see. He has now headed off to his conference".

Saffron

And you actually heard him say this to this person?. Hmm, I am wondering if anything will actually come of it.

Another thought for you:-
Has he apologised to your son for his bellowing at him at the dinner table?. If not I would ask yourself why that is.

I sincerely hope that your H's nice behaviour towards his son last nice was not actually part of the abuse cycle ie your H being in the "nice" phase till the next time. Abuse is a continuous nice and nasty cycle.

At least you will all be able to eat and be a family in peace for the next couple of days; I have a feeling it will not last once he returns.

here's an idea - set up your phone to video your family meal. keep doing it until an incident happens and then play it back to him later when you can get him alone. perhaps looking from the outside he will be able to see more clearly what effect he's having.

Ye but eddie he knows what effect he is having. He is having the effect of frightening everyone so they pipe down and start dancing to his tune. That's what bullies do. IME, people like these don't change, hence my negativity.
Is he a big bloke OP?

You will all become sensitive to atmosphere aka treading on eggshells.

Hiya. Only you know what it's like in your house. No-one should judge you for doing what you think is right. You'll know when you've had enough, or when things become acceptable again. Xxx every OP has that choice. Xxx

I agee wirh Caileach.
I think your DH has ASD too. Blowing up over tiny things and being overly critical of others every little mistake are common traits of AS.
I stronly advise you to read around the subject. If your DD has ASD, I think that this increased the liklihood thatvthis is what is causing your DH' s behaviour.

I'm someone married to a man with AS and had a child with it too.