In a really bad place wth DH and DS

[saffronwblue]

Married 16 years, DS is 15. Their relationship is just deteriorating as DH is continually bullying, nitpicking and belittling DS. He does not see how hurt DS is by the way he speaks to him and how damaged their relationship is. I spend all my time facilitating between them, trying to keep the peace and feeling dreadful. I don't want to go on like this. DH refuses to see that any of this is his problem. He thinks DS should just be more compliant and obedient and does not see that he has thrown away DS's respect by being so full of bluster and meanness.
If he was a stepfather I would separate. But he is DS's own father and I don't want to break up the family if we don't have to. I don't know what sort of message DS would get from that. We also have a 12 year old DD ( who has ASD) and is very sensitive to atmosphere. Would they both be happier if we split up? Would I? Or is this normal teenage adjustment and DH and I will end up happy ever after again?
I am so sad, angry and confused. We just had a scene at dinner where DS was chatting happily about his day. DH just started roaring at him about his table manners. Everyone ended the meal in stunned and angry silence.

[AnyFucker]

My father was like this with me all my life

Not with my sibling to the same extent

My mother made a token effort every couple of years to protect me from the emotional abuse but it soon reverted to the status quo

I don't have a functional relationship with my father 30 years on, and only a very tenuous and surface one with my mother. There is not much warmth and I avoid her as much as I can. She is still with him, still putting him before the emotional well being of her children like she did all those years ago

They both had a choice in the way they behaved and my mother still doesn't understand why she doesn't have the relationship she thought she should have with her daughter. You might want to think about that, OP.

[saffronwblue]

Lots to digest here, thank you. Am heading off to work shortly in my time zone. I had a quick word to DH last night. He thinks that I do not support him in his parenting and do not present a united front to the children. I say that I can't support him when he uses such a destructive tone.
He recently acted in a management position at work and got the whole team offside...He just does have a piece missing when it comes to people. He can be kind, funny and insightful in many ways, amazingly.
We are going away this weekend with DC. I will try to talk calmly to him and say I am not prepared to put up with this in my family.
I really believe in a family evening meal. I also believe that when a teenage son is talking, then that is a great opportunity to listen and communicate, not shut them down. I feel furious and frustrated that DH can't see this.

[TheCatThatSmiled]

Its one things showing a united front to the children. Its totally another thing sitting silently by while he bullies his son.

I'd tell him that you will not stay quite, that next time it happens you will challenge him. In front of the children. Loudly.

[TheCatThatSmiled]

sorry, not having a go at you, I should have said - Him expecting you to sit silently by ...

[Puttheshelvesup]

I really don't buy the parents 'showing a united front' thing. Surely a child will learn so much more about relationships and self respect if they see someone who is being unreasonable being respectfully pulled up on their bad behaviour. This 'us against you, child' is potentially very damaging.

OP, it is not your job to facilitate your Dh's relationship with your ds. If he refuses to see that he is being a bully, then there is nothing more you can do other than present him with an ultimatum; sort out your shit,dh, or leave.

[ageofgrandillusion]

Personally i'd LTB because if you dont your son is going to grow up wondering why you kept him exposed to this spiteful fucker for so long.

[Twinklestein]

It's a tough situation but you have to choose between your husband and your children. Do you stay loyal to your husband at your son's expense? Or do you protect your son - and your daughter too as she will be damaged from witnessing the bullying and conflict?

For me it's a no brainer. I would be really concerned that if you don't get your son away from his father quickly that he will end up with mental health problems, and that he may turn into a bully himself.

I think it's highly unlikely that your husband would ever address his behaviour, but the only thing that's likely to is to ask for a divorce.

[AnyFucker]

Personally i'd LTB because if you dont your son is going to grow up wondering why you kept him exposed to this spiteful fucker for so long.

This is what I think of my mother

[Puttheshelvesup]

Me too AF, and our relationship is very poor to this day.

[Mellowandfruitful]

I think thecatthatsmiled's suggestion of telling him that if it happens again you will be pulling him up on it at the table is a good one. I think it would mean a lot to your DS to see that you are not going to keep letting this slide. And he needs to see how seriously you are taking this - at the moment he seems to think that both you and your DS will fall into line if he bludgeons on in this way for long enough.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Is DH trying to assert authority at home that doesn't come easily to him at work?

[ageofgrandillusion]

My dad and DB went through something like this when my DB was 14

The point is that one is an adult, the other is a child. There are no excuses for behaving like a cock towards your own child. It's pathetic.

[Puttheshelvesup]

Kingrollo The only way the family will work through it is if the the dh acknowledges that his behaviour is abusive, and agrees to get help. I doubt that will happen without an ultimatum, and if the dh decides not to cooperate then he splitting up of the family will be his responsibility alone. The language you use places the onus of keeping the family together on the OP, which is unfair. This is not her fault, her dh is being a dick.

[Morebiscuitsplease]

My father was quite abusive to me. He didn't and still doesn't like me expressing my opinions. He would lose his rag, threw things at me and was pretty vile. Once my mother had a job and some financial independence she called it a day. She has always said his behaviour to me was one of the reasons. I do have some sort of relationship with my father but he can still be unpredictable and I keep him at arms length. Fortunately I live at distance!! Reading your thread has bought back some very uncomfortable memories, children need protection, adults don't. People don't change, my dad has mellowed but .... The relationship is not the best. I am so glad my children have the father they do...kind, caring, supportive..... I thank god every day for that. For my younger sister it is a different story.....

[haveyourselfashandy]

The very least you can do for your son is pull this man up each and everytime he belittles him.
My df has always being a bully,my mum has a comfortable life so has never wanted to rock the boat and I don't respect her for it.He started bullying me when I was 10ish and I got out of that house as soon as I could.They are extremely disappointed in how my life has turned out,I am extremely proud that I survive the shit he still throws at me occasionally ha.
Definitely record him if you can,if not pull him up everytime he does it and he MAY be shocked into behaving himself.Good luck.

[saffronwblue]

I don't know what to do. Can't tell if I'm overreacting or not. He is seeing the gp today about something else and I asked him just to mention the words anger and depression to the gp. He spent time with ds last night after dinner - they went together shopping and came back looking quite companionable although ds still rolling his eyes.
Will get through the day at work and try to schedule a big talk across the weekend.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Get him to get his BP checked while he's there.

[saffronwblue]

Thanks for pm donk

[saffronwblue]

Update - Dh has been put on BP medication. The dr has also initiated a mental health assessment which in our system means he may get some free counseling. We have not talked just texted but I am feeling a bit more positive that he could try to change. Maybe I'm deluded. I will have an honest talk with dd and ds and ask them for their thoughts on what is best. I am very struck by those of you who feel your parent should have ended the situation.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Saffron,

What (as is not beyond the realms of possibility here) if he refuses counselling?. The BP medication is but a short term measure and in no way addresses the underlying problems here. He as well does not act like this to others in the outside world does he?. If he shouted at his boss the way he shouts at his son he would be out on his ear.

Your DH was shown a very poor example by both parents as a child (women like your narc MIL always but always need a willing enabler to help them and your late FIL played that role) and he has simply gone onto emulate same as an adult. Its still no excuse or justification for his narcissistic behaviour and abuse towards your son.

Its not down to your children to decide on what is best for them; you should also be the main part of that decision process and they should follow your lead. After all, you have a choice re this man, your children do not.