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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

In a really bad place wth DH and DS

131 replies

saffronwblue · 06/02/2014 09:21

Married 16 years, DS is 15. Their relationship is just deteriorating as DH is continually bullying, nitpicking and belittling DS. He does not see how hurt DS is by the way he speaks to him and how damaged their relationship is. I spend all my time facilitating between them, trying to keep the peace and feeling dreadful. I don't want to go on like this. DH refuses to see that any of this is his problem. He thinks DS should just be more compliant and obedient and does not see that he has thrown away DS's respect by being so full of bluster and meanness.
If he was a stepfather I would separate. But he is DS's own father and I don't want to break up the family if we don't have to. I don't know what sort of message DS would get from that. We also have a 12 year old DD ( who has ASD) and is very sensitive to atmosphere. Would they both be happier if we split up? Would I? Or is this normal teenage adjustment and DH and I will end up happy ever after again?
I am so sad, angry and confused. We just had a scene at dinner where DS was chatting happily about his day. DH just started roaring at him about his table manners. Everyone ended the meal in stunned and angry silence.

OP posts:
dramajustfollowsme · 07/02/2014 09:20

How are things today Saffron?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 07/02/2014 10:08

Well it's a start saffron, for a man who was crossly denying there was anything wrong at all.

We don't know how he conducts himself at work but you mentioned he recently got the whole team offside, that to me says he's got a problem there too; but home life is your immediate priority.

I am sure you are reassuring your DCs that they can rely on you and things haven't been right but you and DH are addressing this. That's your job as parents.

Puttheshelvesup · 07/02/2014 11:25

OP, you are really not overreacting. My DM also discussed the situation with us and asked if we wanted her to leave the bully. In doing so she relinquished any responsibility of care to us made us responsible for protecting ourselves, not something that any child should be burdoned with. We just wanted to be loved and we all said we didn't want her to leave him, because children just want to make their parents happy. She should have removed us from harm and she didn't.

If you do discuss it with your dc please be very careful about the language you use. Good luck, I hope it gets sorted.x

ScarletWomanoftheVillage · 07/02/2014 13:06

Hi Saffron, sorry to read about this situation Sad

DH just started roaring at him about his table manners. Everyone ended the meal in stunned and angry silence.

Roaring at the table is hardly good table manners is it? Does your H not see that? Angry

To let his own feelings of temper dominate and ruin a family meal is extremely disrespectful to everyone round that table who is trying to enjoy a civilised meal, not only to DS. I would explain that, and say to H that if he is unable to grasp this simple fact, then perhaps he'd be better off not having dinner with you all anymore…

lazarusb · 07/02/2014 16:41

I hope you're encouraged by what happened at the GP and that he is beginning to realise that he needs help. Keep on eye on your children though and be ready to step in if something similar happens again.

Original poster
saffronwblue · 07/02/2014 20:50

Thanks all. Will post later when I find wifi. Am ok.

OP posts:
Original poster
saffronwblue · 09/02/2014 10:00

oK am back from a nice weekend away with the family (never found the wifi). DH and I had a big talk which gave me a lot to think about. He says he is not depressed but angry. He feels that the DC do nothing around the house, have bad manners and are allowed to get away with behaviour that he would never have been allowed to. It is this anger that comes bursting out at meal times. I told him that I understand that he is frustrated, but angry outbursts never win people over and it is never OK to speak to DC like that. I do think I have allowed them to get away with a lot because I try to compensate for his grumpiness. I said that if he dials down the anger then I can start to be tougher over manners etc.

DH comes from a family where angry outbursts are legendary. His uncle kicked over a tv once because his teenage children were not listening to him. His cousin threw a Wii out of the window because his teenage DC were arguing over it. The whole family laughs merrily over these incidents.
I grew up as the sort of child who cringed and cried if people shouted.
I said to DH in the clearest possible terms that our marriage would not survive if he does not try some other strategies and show the DC more love. I said that I do not want our marriage to end, always thought we would grow old together but am not prepared to have my DC in a situation that is damaging to them. He said he understands how strongly I feel.
I heard him say to the DC " I am trying to turn over a new leaf" so we will see what happens next.
I am not excusing him but he has in the last three years lost his father, tried to support his mother with dementia and had to compel her into a locked facility and has been in a very dispiriting work situation. So some counselling about anger may help. On the other hand he may always think that blowing up over little things is basically OK in which case we are doomed.

OP posts:
IshouldhavemarriedEwanMcGregor · 09/02/2014 10:38

Saffron - I think you have done and are doing the right thing by not leaving (not yet anyway) and trying to resolve this by making him see sense. It's very hard to have these conversations and to really get through to someone and you have done that. He might change, he might not - my guess is that he will change enough for your marriage and family to be workable. I hope so.

lazarusb · 09/02/2014 11:22

Well done. You've been very clear with him and outlined clear boundaries. Parenting is a co-operative process and it can be difficult when you have different views and upbringings. I hope he does realise what he stands to lose and starts working on it for the benefit of your children and you.

Do you think they have bad manners and don't do enough around the house? Maybe that's something that could be worked on too.

Good luck!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 09/02/2014 12:31

Glad you have said what you aren't prepared to tolerate. This is where what he says and what he does should match up.

springykyrie · 09/02/2014 23:33

I can relate to extreme anger being de rigeur in families... then one of the group ends up in their own family and, alone, displays frighteningly angry satellite outbursts, not quite recognising how harmful it is, not quite registering the hurt, shock and dismay of those subjected to it.

Well done for spelling it out clearly - can't have been easy. I do so hope this is a conclusive turning point for you all.

Original poster
saffronwblue · 11/02/2014 22:42

Another bad night last night. DH being hypercritical of DD's homework/handwriting until she was in tears. DS then swearing and being really rude to him and DH furious with me for not backing him up. We had a long tense talk last night. He just does not see that the problem is him. He thinks the DC are rude and I am undermining him. He does not understand why I am the 'arbiter of what is an acceptable tone' and thinks I am being too controlling of him.
I really don't want to split up but I think his behaviour is really damaging to us all. Felt so sad and couldn't sleep and I called in sick today.
I do think that he is really suffering from the awful years we have had with MiL and Alzheimers. I also think he just does not have skills for dealing with teenagers.
He has texted me that he loves me and wants to work things out.

OP posts:
lookingfoxy · 11/02/2014 22:56

My dad was like this with violence thrown in, he's dead now, but I've never really forgiven my mother for not protecting us or leaving him. I ended up leaving home at 15 and went through a lot, homelessness, violence etc etc. I wanted to be a solicitor but circumstances never allowed it. Im 38 now and just getting to a place where im ok. Please don't underestimate the impact this has on your dc.

Cailleach · 11/02/2014 23:03

I think your DH may have ASD.

"He just does have a piece missing when it comes to people" yep, no kidding.

You have a child with ASD...where do you think she got that genetic condition from?

Yours,

Someone with ASD.

AnyFucker · 11/02/2014 23:04

That "new leaf" didn't last long Sad

scallopsrgreat · 11/02/2014 23:15

Its funny isn't it how a 'united front' involves you supporting him but he is allowed to criticize and undermine your parenting at any opportunity. Because that is what he's doing. He doesn't think the children have enough discipline so he is applying that discipline without reference to you basically. This isn't a 'united front' (a dodgy concept especially when exploited by abusers). This is him calling the shots and you being expected to back him up.

Reducing your child to tears over handwriting is cruel. This is not good parenting. Shouting and swearing at your child is not good parenting and neither of those is likely to instill discipline. Just fear and resentment.

How much happier do you think you, and especially your children would be without this man looming over you?

dramajustfollowsme · 11/02/2014 23:21

Saffron, I'm so sorry.

Mellowandfruitful · 11/02/2014 23:24

Oh dear, sorry it has taken another difficult turn. Could counselling for you be an option?

Mellowandfruitful · 11/02/2014 23:26

You as a couple, I meant there, not just you. Has it been mentioned in the discussions so far? I don't know a lot about family counselling but I have seen it spoken of very positively on here too.

innisglas · 11/02/2014 23:29

IMHO, displays of temper at the table are the worst table manners. It affects everyone's digestion, apart from anything else.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 11/02/2014 23:35

Not just picking on DS, then. But having antagonised him earlier DS is now more likely to bite back. Are these displays of fault finding and temper only when you are present?

I am sorry saffron but it's not his way or the highway for everyone else in the home. Two DCs under 15, you can't have their father losing his temper and bully them. So far you've been there when H throws his weight around, what will happen one day when you're absent?

The family's facing a crisis and he still argues about how you're interacting with the DCs and the underlying theme is you are at fault. However you each view parenting, if it's time to review and adapt then whipping up a bad atmosphere between the four of you is not the way to go about it.

When someone is in attack mode they don't listen to the voice of reason. If there is any place he can go for a spell then I'd suggest he steps out so you can regroup. But definitely arrange some kind of family therapy.

scarletforya · 11/02/2014 23:40

I thought the same as Cailleach

Your husband could have ASD himself. Doesn't excuse his behavior but it's important to find out.

Original poster
saffronwblue · 11/02/2014 23:40

He is going away tomorrow for a couple of nights at a conference.

OP posts:
Cerisier · 11/02/2014 23:46

Parenting teens is very different to parenting younger children IME. You lay down rules when they are little but with teens it is more about listening and advising. It is also when you pave the way for the adult relationship you will have with the DC in a few years time.

I would urge your DH to think about the future and what his DC are going to remember about their home life. Shouting matches and miserable silences will be a horrible memory.

Sometimes my DD15's table manners leave much to be desired. She knows what she should do (and manages it at the GPs' house) so my job is done. We all have a pleasant meal by me not sitting opposite her and not watching what she is up to.

Rainiesmile175 · 12/02/2014 01:08

I really feel for you.
I thought that someone had been reading my mind when I read your post. I have been 'butting in' (with regard to standing up for my son) for a while now as I refuse to let my H act the way he does and am seriously considering leaving because of his anger issues. It gives me strength to know that i am not alone with this issue. I am fed up with this mans problems. He does not want counselling as it's not his fault!!!!! He never used to be this way.....this is not rational behaviour.
Let me know how you get on. Xx