We All Make Mistakes

[MyMistake]

I have done something silly. Had an affair with a married guy (no DC's).

I should have known better. I did know better logically but let my heart take me into it somehow.

I have been on other side of something like this in the past so feel pretty knowledgeable on the subject. But I still did it.

And now I feel rubbish. I am in a position where I will see him about quite frequently and need to get over myself. He is a good person - appreciate that many will dispute this but I do believe this to be the case and this is really the reason that it ended. Need to get rapidly to the point where I can look back on it fondly and be peaceful - but right now I'm nowhere near there.

Posting for a shoulder and hopefully to remind others that however you feel an affair is generally never a good idea.

Report me if I've broken guidelines. If not, I'll comment in which threads I choose to lying, thank you.

You might have sympathy with somebody coming here for a 'hand to hold' because boo hoo her illicit affair is over- I'll be honest and give my opinion as I see fit. Who made me the judge of standards?! Who made you the bloody mumsnet police. Bore off.

Have you seen the Greg Bernhardt books? He's Just Not That Into You etc? They are very useful for this horrible time.

I've been where you have, too. It was horrendous. Their marriage was going to end, anyway (and did, soon after), but I have never felt good about it. It's been done to me, too, and that was also horrendous. Infidelity is very damaging, as we all know. So you're going to have to forgive anyone flaming you: it's close to ALL our hearts. Ultimately, though, HE is the one married; his vows, his wife. You and she both deserve better.

Go for someone who can love you back. That book ^ will talk to you, I promise.

Hi I don't have any issue with people flaming me. I came here to discuss this issue and people will always have varying opinions on a very emotive topic. That said hopefully we can avoid a scrap on thread

Thanks for the book recommendation.

I do agree that I don't need to prove my identity. I think that was discussed and resolved up thread.

Having read all the posts on this thread, I've a feeling the OP is copping flack that might be directed at IsTheGrass's posts and maybe other nameless OW who unlike the OP, don't take any responsibility for their part in a stranger's pain.

I think it's a really interesting thread and agree that the OP's posts are actually helpful because they acknowledge some realities that I do think some Mumsnetters are terrified of. I get that it's probably safer to think affairs only happen in lousy marriages (something I think far too many OW/people who have affairs themselves believe) or that only the very obviously bad guys in crap marriages get involved elsewhere (something I think far too many people in general believe).

I don't think silencing what might be uncomfortable and challenging is ever the right approach, although I do understand if you've been through something like this the words 'silly' and 'fond' might cause some red mist to descend- but best to hide the thread or say your piece and walk away.

Anyway OP, I guess you've acknowledged to yourself you'd have gone ahead with this affair if he hadn't had a touch of the seconds?

Don't you think you are stereotyping a bit?

How?

If I was stereotyping I would say all cheaters are dim. I wasn't saying that.

I was referring to this phrase: He has been open and honest

This is a man who is lying to his wife remember? Honest is not a word that can be used to describe him. The man is a liar. Fact.

Maybe I am trying to make excuses for myself.

You are making excuses. No maybe about it. You are not in the least bit sorry.

Except for yourself.

I think I do have an issue with the flaming, though, because I've been in both positions and remained a decent person throughout. An affair with a married man doesn't make anyone a beast and it's too easy to sling mud: as Leavenheath points out, this issue strikes fear into most women. It's devastating to experience. On top of that, all kinds of nasty, grubby little truths motivate someone in a marriage to cheat, most of which never come out. So given a choice between grappling with that nest of vipers - as well as loving the person who can cause you so much pain - or blaming someone for facilitating it ... well, it's easier to direct anger towards the other woman. Or one like her.

He's a shitbag, by the way. In case you didn't know.

Sorry, but if having an affair with a married man doesn't necessarily mean a woman's a shitbag, having an affair while married doesn't necessarily make someone a shitbag either. This is what the OP's saying and I agree with her, especially as she's making the distinction that both her and the bloke's behaviour were shitty for a while. Wish we could get away from these blanket condemnations.

They were in it together, they are both responsible for their own actions.

Him for cheating on his wife and her for being a willing accomplice in that.

I think it's entirely possible for someone to affair-proof themselves because every affair begins with a series of choices. The trouble is that unless you have given serious thought about all this before you are tempted, most people don't recognise those choices and opportunities to call things off before they take on a life of their own.

So often those caught having an affair are the same ones who people would never have believed it of, known in fact for their moralising about other people's affairs so secure are they in the knowledge that they are a superior human who would never allow themselves to fall into that trap. They're usually the ones who convince themselves that their marriage was lacking in a fundamental something as an excuse for their behaviour (rather than the truth that they were just seduced by the promise of excitement).

Ironically, the person who has experienced genuine remorse for their infidelity and gone on a searingly self-honest exploration of their motives and behaviour and learns to recognise the danger signs is less likely to have an affair IMO than someone who's never given it a second thought because they believe themselves incapable of behaving like that.

The main factors in any affair are opportunity and self delusion. Come up with damage limitation for those two elements and you can affair proof yourself and yes, become a better person IMO. I think the starting point of that is learning to forgive yourself for past actions. Guilt may be a sort of punishment and is part of the rehabilitation process, but ultimately it prevents people from learning from the experience.

And just as a convict can heroically save a child's life, good people can do bad things. Having an affair does not make you a bad or selfish person; it is just a bad or selfish act. It is the overall balance of your behaviour that defines you.

Excellent posts Dahlen and WiseFiver.

Leavenheath: well, in theory I agree with you, because blanket condemnations are always reductive. But I do think it's shoddy as hell to a) be unfaithful b) be dishonest about it. There is such a toxicity in those actions. He is living a dishonest life every day and his wife is also forced to. It's vile.

Dahlen: I agree re affair-proofing oneself.

It is shoddy. Very few on this thread are saying otherwise, but being an OW is shoddy too, because you're allowing yourself to be complicit in another woman's deceit. But the wise people learn from it and as Dahlen says, don't make the mistakes again. Those who refuse to take responsibility do tend to make those mistakes again though, whether they are the ones having affairs or the habitual Ow/Oms of this world.

Thanks for all of those interesting perspectives. I agree that sometimes we need to discuss uncomfortable areas to learn what we need to learn.

MyMistake: having just read more of this thread, I can see that you got into this after a bad relationship (marriage, yes?). I did similar. Actually, he wasn't married, but he definitely wasn't only with me (I just didn't know - yep, he was THAT great). Anyway, I put up with it because my self esteem was rock bottom after an abusive marriage.

Actually, I came on MN for help getting over it and lots of women said, "You need to read 'He's Just Not That Into You'". I really think it might be the right time for you to read it. It is invaluable for getting you over a relationship that you KNOW it crap, but is nonetheless difficult to forget.

Thanks. I think that book was suggested earlier. I will take at it.

Yes I split up with XH a while back and this is the first relationship since then. The marriage was not abusive in any way but we were certainly not happy together. I had a DC issue in parallel with the marriage break up which I had to focus on for quite a while and as a result have not focused at all on dating or another relationship.

Sorry should say look at it.

I don't think I need to get over XH by the way. That is all totally in the past. But I know I need to think carefully about future relationships.

Do "wise" people who have had affairs then...

1. call it a "mistake"

2. think it is ok to look back on their behaviour at that time with "fondness"

Or would you say they have learned not one useful lesson ?

Looking back at your post Dahlen I agree on there being a series of choices at the beginning of the affair. At the time they seemed small and trivial as they were not major decisions at all. But I think if we had both been more understanding and respectful of boundaries at that time this would never have happened.

I do think that with blurry boundaries one can slide into something like this more easily than some might imagine. In my case a lot of communication was online and this was the case with XH too. As this was largely not a physical affair to be honest it was hard to understand the status also at times. This may seem odd but I think that my XH actually had a similar experience so I suspect this is not unusual.

"I have done something silly"...

I think it must be the understatement of the year...

AF to answer your points. I do think I have learned a lot and will continue to do so. Wise? I'm not sure I am wise or will ever be.

I regard it as a large error of judgement and a series of mistakes on my part. If that's wrong I don't understand that. I do not mean to trivialise it by describing it in that way.

I don't look back on my behaviour with fondness but currently I am still feeling very attached to MM and am fond of him. It ended recently. I think I am romanticising no doubt. In the end what I will think of him in years to come I really don't know. To me it doesn't feel that good to hope that I think of him as a bad man in the future. Is that wrong?

My XH had an affair and made a large DC issue far worse to the extent that I feared my DC would die for quite a long time. The DC is ok now. I don't dislike or hate my XH despite this. A genuine question would it be more healthy for me to do so? I regard him as a weak man who made poor choices.

I thought it was a truth universally acknowledged that "decent" (conforming with generally accepted standards of respectable or moral behaviour) people don't purposefully act in a way which will cause massive hurt to their loved ones or lie to them and deceive them and betray them.

You may consider betrayal either as an other woman or deceitful spouse to be congruent with decent living but I think you may be in the minority.