Red flag or not?

[TheStitchWitch]

Me and dh have been married for almost 9 years, socially he plays golf a couple of times a month and very occasionally goes out for drinks in town with his mates. Me and my friends go clothes shopping and sometimes out for lunch. In the past I've been invited out drinking in town but having been out of the loop since having the dc feel that my confidence has gone.

On monday a good friend of mine invited me out this Friday for a few drinks around town and I thought why not. She ended the message saying it won't be a late one and you'll get the chance to wear that nice dress you bought. The dress is bright orange and short and I planned on wearing twith leggings and high heeled black shoes.

I read the message to dh and straight away he said your not going out in that The dress was from Ann summers and because of this he thinks it's not suitable to go out in.

I can hand on heart say that our marriage other than this is good, we're very much in love very attentive. But I now feel that it's only been this way because I've been the compliant little wife that didn't want to go out on the town and was quite happy with shopping and meals out with the girls.

He says he loves me and is worried that I'll leave him for someone else, Ive assured him that I have no intention of being with anyone else.

Is he just insecure or is this the beginning of something worse?

I think that's all good sense, apart from he wasn't "enquiring" he was "stating".

Thanks to everyone that took the time to read and comment
I'm looking forward to my night out, just need it to stop raining now otherwise I'll be a windswept, wet through mess as soon as I walk out the door

Your husband might have done a rain dance to make sure you don't look too nice. :)

XH was a terrible one for making a fuss about my really very conservative clothing. For example I used to wear a long top over leggings to work just after it was fashionable (I've never quite kept up with trends) and he was sure it was my shagging outfit. I had a polo shirt with the classic three button placket which, if I undid all the buttons and leaned forward, might just display a little collar bone; he got upset if I had even one button undone because it would "give men ideas". He objected to me going out with "the girls" (middle-aged work colleagues) because there may be some men among them that I had neglected to mention, although if I invited him along too he wouldn't countenance it, and the one time I (figuratively) twisted his arm and practically frog-marched him out with me he spent the time flirting with one of my friends (who was a little worried about it but decided he was a harmless idiot). Oh, and then he drank too much and decided to go for a walk to a nearby army barracks and flirt with a soldier on guard duty

He was, needless to say, a controlling arse. Hence the X.

No I don't think it's a red flag at all. I do think your angry reaction is OTT but given you previous experience understandable.

While I agree that he can't ORDER you to not wear something in particular, his reaction does show you that he's concerned about what you're wearing and I personally wouldn't wear that dress without him around if he feels that strongly about it. If it were something I had to wear, or that I was determined to wear then I would, but not without telling him about it and explaining why.

My husband knows that I wouldn't cheat on him but it's not about that, it's about protecting me and how he feels that if I'm wearing something a little more revealing with him around I'll be safer than if he weren't (he's a military veteran who was cheated on whilst deployed so he has his own demons).

Before anyone tries to tell me I'm being controlled, it's just a compromise I make to make him feel a bit better and doesn't negatively affect my life at all. He doesn't tell me what to wear, but I consider him and his opinion and would say "This is what I'm thinking of wearing, what do you think?"

I love it when my wife goes out with her gf's having a good time and looking hot, because it's me she comes home to !

that's what counts

What the actual fuck?! So now my post - asking why Lazyjaney's post was deleted - has itself been deleted. Why? What guidelines did we allegedly break? Or are inconvenient truths just not welcome here? Some input from MNHQ would be welcome here, or you could just delete this post as well, I suppose...

Well, at least Lazyjaney's post has been undeleted now. But not mine. How very strange...

Dress from anne summers, suddenly agreeing to go on a night out when you usually dont. He is getting nervous. He clearly still sees you as a fanciable female who other guys will be flocking around. He is maybe worried that you are "changing" a little. Its basic insecurity and if it was the other way around you would be probably feeling a bit odd about it too. He can't control how you dress. Its up to you. Nothing wrong with a guy being kept on his toes a little and shaken out of the assumption that you have no life but homelife. Enjoy your night out x

I noticed today and pinged MN who have restored it.

Still, all's well that ends well.... I can't imagine how it got deleted .

I am just at some of the attitudes on this thread.

Whenever I've gone clubbing I tend to wear not very much within the realms of what I consider decent. I've done this as a single person and as part of couple, sometimes with my partner with me. I have never actually gone clubbing with the intention of pulling as I mostly go to dance and you can't really talk to people because of the volume of noise anyway. The idea that you can equate what someone is wearing with the idea of them being sexually available is laughable.

Clothing can be about identity, self-expression, fashion, personal validation - all sorts of reasons, yes including sexual availability. But even if a woman is wearing clothing with the intent purpose of advertising herself and 'pulling' and lots of people openly find her attractive, that does not give any right-minded individual the right to do anything to her since the woman in question reserves the right to choose and refuse. It is her choice. Therefore if the OP doesn't want to be unfaithful, she won't be, no matter how many people find her overwhelmingly sexy.

Of course, there are people out there who will argue that dressing in a certain way is as good as issuing an invitation, but TBH they are exactly the sort of people who will find other ways to justify misogynistic thinking or to say that a woman was "up for sex" or "asking for it."

Did you know that the most common item of female clothing described in rape cases is jeans? Not mini-skirts or hotpants.

FYI, OP, neil's perspective is not that of "a man" but of "a misogynist". He said that, were his partner to go out dressed exactly like any celeb, any night of the week, as seen all over the papers every day, he would assume she wanted to attract men for sex and might get raped.

Absurd expectations there: everyone sees this kind of outfit as desirable garb for attractive, successful women ... but not, evidently, for Neil's partner. Why so? Is she not attractive, desirable, or successful? Must she pretend to be ugly, frumpy and insignificant? For what benefit?

He also assumes that rapes are caused by clothes, rather than rapists. There is so much wrong with the assumption - and data to prove it wrong - I shan't even go into it here.

Neil further asserts that if, on hearing him order her to change her outfit (or stay indoors), his partner told him to fuck off with his patriarchal commands, he would dump her. This means he considers their relationship conditional on her obedience to his fashion dictates. I don't see that as a relationship worth keeping, tbh.

I'm glad you've sorted out your tiff, OP, but am extremely keen for other readers to grasp that Neil's attitude isn't "normal male", it's "sexist control freak" - and irrational, of course.

xposted again, Dahlen :)

Erm......I don't think I did say all that!
Where did I say anything about rape or women 'asking for it'?
Why is someone allowed to post a lie about me and it's left to stand?

Oh, and I'm not patriarchal, sexist or a control freak and a misogynist either.
I treat people with respect and expect, or would like it back.

Oh dear, Neil, are you still here?

You said:
Let's say my Wife/Partner/GF said she was going out with her mates to get rat-arsed and came down the stairs wearing a dress that only just covered everything and big heels ... I'd be concerned. The primary concern would be for her safety and well-being ... If her answer was: "I don't give a fuck what you think, I'm an adult ... it's none of your business." I'd make sure it was none of my business anymore because I'd be gone by the time she staggered home.

You said you would try to control your partner's choice of clothes. I do not see this as respectful or caring; I see it as controlling and insulting.

Your concern for her safety and well-being, linked as it is to her (theoretical) choice of outfit, implies fears of rape and assumptions that rapes are caused by clothes. Or did you just mean you'd worry about her being cold in the short dress?

And you clearly said you would end the relationship if she told you to fuck off with your sartorial directions.

I'd be concerned for her safety and well being. What's wrong with worrying about somebody you care about. nothing to do with asking for it. If she was falling around pissed up, she's vulnerable to idiots and dangerous people. Having said that, your assumptions about what kind of person I am puts me in that bracket doesn't it?

To answer your first point, nah, don't think I'll bother anymore.

So are you saying she's not allowed to get pissed, whatever she wears?
Or not allowed to get pissed while wearing a short dress and heels?
Is she allowed to dress like a sleb if she doesn't drink?
Why are you 'disallowing' any of the above?

neiljames77, Why is someone allowed to post a lie about me and it's left to stand?

They're not. Report it - it's a (very) personal attack.

GarlicReverses, dressed exactly like any celeb, any night of the week, as seen all over the papers every day...

You know that the celebs you see in the papers dressed like Roman slave girls are dressed like that precisely so they can get their picture in the papers, right?

Dahlen, The idea that you can equate what someone is wearing with the idea of them being sexually available is laughable. Clothing can be about ... all sorts of reasons, yes including sexual availability.

Nice contradiction there. And the point is that many husbands are uncomfortable with their wives dressing like they're on the pull, even if they're not actually on the pull. A non-abusive wife would respect her husband enough to take his feelings into account (not necessarily do what he wants, but seriously consider whether he was being reasonable to feel like that, and act accordingly).

Lazyjaney, I noticed today and pinged MN who have restored it.

Glad to hear it, but I think I'll let mine stay deleted (it was just repeating what you said) as a warning to other dissenters

Let's argue this through. I am not being passive aggressive here BTW.

Neil, why does a woman's choice of clothing give you "concern" for "her safety and wellbeing"?

I don't get that. I really don't. It's already well established that a woman's choice of clothing has no relationship whatsoever to her risk of being attacked. As I mentioned earlier the most common item of clothing worn by a woman who has been raped or sexually assaulted is a pair of jeans.

So why are you concerned for her wellbeing?

If the concern is that looking attractive is more likely to mean inappropriate chatting/canoodling with someone, the logical conclusion to that train of thought is a complete lack of trust. Either you trust your partner or you don't, but her choice of clothing is not going to change that if you think about it.

So no, I really don't get it. I can understand insecurity issues. And yes, in a loving relationship I think there is room to voice them and ask for and get reassurance. But in order to get that you have to own those insecurities for what they are and not make them about the other person who is entirely innocent of the perceived threat.

Stale - thanks for pointing out the contradiction. I thought it was fairly obvious that I was pointing out that there are many reasons why women - indeed people generally - choose to wear certain types of clothing - and "being on the pull" is only one of them; Therefore the idea that thinking skimpy clothing can mean only being on the pull is laughable. But obviously I didn't make that clear enough to you so I am making it clear now.

In all my years, it's never occurred to me to voice an opinion on any other single adult's clothing choices. (Unless it's a work regulation/uniform thing.) I would feel like I was treating my partner as a child if I did that. Even if I privately felt he looked ridiculous I would assume that as an adult with however many years he has of clothing himself independently, he has made an adult, informed choice about what he is wearing and that my role is to like it or not like it as I see fit but to keep my opinions to myself unless asked.

Does he think he is the big hero who can protect you when you are out half naked with him but not if you are out without him?

wear the dress and tell him to stop being a prat.

"Therefore the idea that thinking skimpy clothing can mean only being on the pull is laughable. But obviously I didn't make that clear enough to you so I am making it clear now"

Humbug. Women dont wear skimpy Ann Summers numbers to attract their friends, nor go to evening lectures on Proust.

And youre still all dodging the main point I made, which is that if this thread had reversed sexes you'd all be kicking off about the huge red flag of a partner suddenly changing their behaviour, dressing to pull, going out on a Friday night with unattached mates and refusing point blank to tone anything down.

Total hypocrisy on here.

This is why I cannot be bothered with relationships. If someone questioned one of my personal choices my first works would be "whats it got to do with you???!!!

Wear what you want basically but be prepared for fall out if the boyfriend or husband doenst like it. You know if he likes it or not. You then make the choice between your acting on your freedom of choice or acting on his wishes or somewhere in the middle. Its a balancing act I guess, a compromise, both of you compromise all the way through a relationship and I just couldnt be bothered with that anymore. Im me…I wouldnt wear something skimpy but through my own choice and not because there is anything wrong with skimpy, Im just not as small as I used to be, there is a whole lot of body to dress nowadays so my skimpy would be knee length tent to someone else

All I do know is that its not fair to change the rules on someone after years of a relationship and expect them to just love it, same goes with him though. If you have dressed like miss respectable for 15 years then suddenly you are going out dressed like you haven't finished dressing its automatic human nature to question. I guess it will show how strong your relationship is.

Regarding the comment someone made that they would be worried that their partner would attract sexual attention of the wrong sort. Well, women get raped wearing jeans and baggy jumpers, the get raped when wearing below the knee office suits, they get raped wearing shell suits. Its not about what we wear, its about misogynistic tossers assuming they have a right to help themselves to our bodies..its about power, its about control. Its not about a mini dress!!

Lazyjaney - I completely disagree. I will quite often wear clothing many people would consider "pulling gear" in all-women settings. I don't consider it pulling gear, hence why I don't feel it's inappropriate.

Please don't judge everyone by your own standards.