Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

can I just say, that going through counselling with an abuser will be subjecting you to further abuse, as counselling has no chance of stopping the abuse.

I wonder why you are worrying so much about yourself, when the issue is him? This is typically the result of trying to work through an abusive relationship with an abuser.

He gets to feel better, and you get to fell worse, and he succeeds in making his behaviour your fault. This is very dangerous for your wellbeing FFF

Is it ok to accept that you can't stand him anymore? Have lost all respect for him, and have possibly no feelings left for him other than those he is able to stir in you to feel bad when he tells you his problems are all your fault?

Your last sentence is what I'd expect to hear from any woman in couples counselling with an abuser.

I'm really sorry you are suffering this FFF

fff let me describe a typical disagreement between me and Ex.

me: attempt to raise issue in a reasonable manner

him: says something dismissive, off the point, blaming, or stonewalling.

me: repeats attempt in a louder voice, showing more emotion in voice and body

him: responds as above

me: has another go, in a Very Loud Voice, which I can't help (this still gets me into trouble even now, and I have tried!)

him: tells me not to shout at him, uses this as an excuse not to even listen to the words I am saying.

It's a feedback loop, and a nasty one, because I am the one seeming to ramp things up. But I'm not!

(Apologies for the present tense - think of it as the Historical Present, as I had to go back into the moment to think about it)

Yes, my comment about there being two of you in the relationship was not meant that it was your fault, but that your response is part of an abusive dynamic; that you are reacting to how he treats you, iyswim.

But he will never, ever acknowledge that and you will keep questioning yourself; and for as long as you do that, you are stuck.

It is NOT you.

shimmering, add into the mix him telling you to calm down, to stop being so aggressive (when your tone is still normal) and that is it.

Awful day. I woke up this morning and I'd been dreaming about my stbxh elderly relatives in scotland, not a clue why but I had a sudden rush of memories from when we visited them. DD1 was only 3 weeks old and we were ridiculously happy, we were so chuffed with ourselves and this amazing, perfect little person we'd created. We travelled up to edinburgh to show her off and I remember just beaming for the entire time. We were a family. Stbxh told me that weekend that he'd never been so happy, never imagined how much he'd love DD1 and that he loved me all the more for giving her to him. We were truly the happiest we'd ever been.
It's all the more heartbreaking that just 3 weeks after that, after saying those things, he 'met someone' who made him rethink everything and question his happiness (she was 18). And the bubble well and truly burst.
Anyway, laid there with this thought in my head, waiting for DS to wake the girls like he always does (you could set your clock by him, 7.20am every day!) I missed him. I missed him so much my chest ached and I ended up in tears. Why did it all have to turn to shit?
So, memories like this have been coming and going all day..good ones, like the twins being born and how thrilled we were..our wedding day..those smilies! Smiles that I look back on now and I know mine was real and sincere, but I find myself wondering how his could possibly have been, when just a few weeks later he was treating me with such hatred and contempt, flying into a rage over nothing and dragging my wedding ring from my finger that he'd placed there so tenderly .
There's been a lot of tears today. Don't seem to be able to stop now I've started. I never expected a day like today. Someone please tell me it's normal and it will pass.

fff I'm sorry, but I'm puzzled. It sounds very much like you're being told that you need to be kinder, more loving, more considerate to someone who is being abusive to you?? In other words, "if you were a nicer person, he wouldn't be abusive" ??!?!?!

I hope I'm misunderstanding this, because this is what it is sounding like.

Totally normal, Curt. You are grieving for the man you thought existed. He seemed to be yours, but now you know that that illusion is gone forever. So it's grief. Be gentle with yourself. It will pass.

Thanks charlotte.. I'd been doing so well, thrown myself into everything, concentrated on my DC. I thought I'd done my mourning. I thought I'd cried so much there was nothing left. But today was just..gaah..just a complete flood of memories and emotion. You're exactly right..what I thought was mine, was never really mine at all. What a saddening thought.
Bath and early night tonight and tomorrow is a new day. If I need to cry then I'm just going to let it come. I'm taking my DC to my mums for the usual mother's day cards and flowers and my brother is taking us all out for sunday lunch.

I had a good mother's day here. DCs were silly and excited. We just really had a normal day, although I made a special pancake breakfast for us to "celebrate" mother's day. I had a text from STBXH but today was for relaxing and being with the DCs, so I filed it away mentally to look at it tomorrow after a brief glance to make sure it wasn't urgent regarding MIL.

Curt sorry you had a tearful day. That must have been really hard for you.

I hope today was better. Hugs to you.

I have also had a nice Mother's Day Alice. I have two sons who are just fantastic. 24 and 19. A beautiful bunch of flowers and two gorgeous cards with lovely words.
H has been rather good today.... Probably because we had sex.... Wondering how long that will last. Huge sigh ....

STBXH is asking for me to bring DCs to see him and MIL at MIL's house. I am not going over there when the OW is there (and she currently is), as they are not ready to meet her at all. He's run full tilt into this relationship, and that's entirely up to him, but the DCs are not going to know about her until I feel it's actually going to be a longer term relationship. I'm not convinced, and I don't want to put the DCs through that kind of upset.

I also don't want him in my house anymore. So I'm at a loss as to the best way to do this. I guess it'll have to be a public place, perhaps McD's or something like that where he can see them for a short time, but has to behave as there'll be people around.

And I'm not going to bring them to MIL's house as we visit with her separately now. She knows this and is fine with it, because often STBXH kicks off during visits, and it cuts short (and makes unpleasant) the visit for MIL which isn't fair on her. We will visit her after he's left town again. I suspect he's saying it's to visit MIL to garner a bit of sympathy as she's been ill. But she knows I'll bring them over another time.

He is still acting very odd. Burning bridges and accusing various family members of this and that, and so on. People keep feeding back info to me from his FB - people that are on his friend's list apparently but think he's OTT. So he's obviously not convinced everyone that I'm horrible. He was apparently talking about having a nervous breakdown - not exactly something I want around the DCs - he's erratic enough without that.

Alice, any contact should be agreed in advance legally through mediation. It is not a case of he says jump, and you jump, that needs to stop. So, the answer should be thank you for considering the children, but please contact my solicitor, so that we can put a regular contact schedule in place. Then it can be properly discussed in mediation.

It is not in anyone's interests, least of all the children when they sound quite settled, for you to get stressed about the best way to organise this without him flipping out or you seeing OW.

Several weeks ago, you decided that any contact should be in a contact centre. You had valid reasons for this, which were nothing to do with OW. These reasons still stand.

Of course, it may be the easiest path to have an hour in McDonalds and hope he goes away again, but I would be clear that this is a one-off and any future contact has to be properly discussed and a schedule set up.

And my personal view would be to stand your grounds about a proper contact schedule to be agreed in mediation. Why would you put yourself and DC in the position of having to have happy families meal at McD's?

daffodildays You're right, of course. Unfortunately, because of his move, the contact centre is no longer an option, as they only do 8 weeks in a row, Saturdays at a certain pre-set time. He certainly will not agree to that as there's no way he'll travel back here once a week to see the DCs.

I think the best course will be an hour in McDonalds and then afterwards, draft a letter (running it by solicitor) and say that any future contact must be properly arranged with a regular schedule set up for contact visits. If he is not willing to set up a regular schedule of visits, then I see no point in any communication until he is ready to set up regular supervised contact. They are children, not property to just pick up and drop whenever the mood suits. It's not fair on them for him to just disappear for over a month at a time and then pop in and expect to see them and then disappear again. It disrupts our schedules and puts undue pressure on me as well.

At the moment, one child is ill, so I am not going to respond yet, as I don't know when I can arrange it anyway. It's a bit lower on my priority list, behind doctor appointments and such.

He certainly will not agree to that as there's no way he'll travel back here once a week to see the DCs.

That is his issue, though. He moved.

It is, I agree. However, the contact centre requires both parents to agree on using them.

Oh why does he do it? Now he's told DD (9) that he's moving a 4 hour drive away, and that she'll live with him for 4 months of the year. Oh and of course she mustn't discuss it with me. Cue yet more secrets upsetting a young head yet again. She doesn't want to, but doesn't realise it's not an option anyway - how does school work?!

He's just so self-centred. He wants to move away, and has no concept of what's good for her. He also has no concept of how much all this screws her up.

And I can't easily address it with him, as she'll be so scared of his reaction that yet again she won't want to see or speak to him.

What on earth is he trying to achieve.

grrrrr.

She's 9, and he thinks she'll live with him 4 months a year. Does he know what the school schedule is? Not feasible anyway, but what a prat to upset her like that.

I wonder if the best thing isn't to teach her the "smile and nod" reaction. Seriously. Tell her that Daddy has a tendency to come up with odd things that may or may not really actually happen - and that her best reaction is to just "smile and nod" basically, and then she can come talk to you about it and you can point out that it's most likely not going to happen (and why if need be).

I think at 9 yo, she's reaching that point where she will have to be told that sometimes it's best for her not to react to his nonsense (whether or not you put it precisely that way is up to you obviously). Ideally, it would be best if he would just grow up, but as that's not likely to happen, you then have to work on her reactions and how she feels about this stuff and do what damage control you can.

But how frustrating for you, I know.

alice I've finally had a chance to catch up with her - she's perked up a lot now I've explained that it's just not going to happen. I wish she could just smile and nod, but of course he asks her to agree with him, and then she worries about what's going to happen next.

I've managed to convince DD that it's a good idea for me to speak to Daddy about this, I can't keep just letting her take this crap. I know what it feels like and I can't let her go through it too. This is just the tip of the iceberg really.

So of course she's now with me as she's too scared to go to Daddy's. And he can't see that he's done anything wrong, and of course it's the whole world against him.

I used to think he was a 'unique character' now I know he's a perfect fit into the FW mould!

STBXH is angry because I didn't answer his messages in a timely manner. He can literally up sticks and move across the country, ignore the DCs for well over a month completely, but he expects me to jump when he texts (and bring the DCs to him for a contact visit). Unbelievable.

Well we were into the second week of stbxh's NC. But I just came down from the bath to find ten missed calls and a couple of pissed off texts. The first telling me to pick up my phone, the second saying it must be good sex if I'm not answering the phone and I obviously don't want him to organise a visit with DC. I replied as politely as possible that I was in the bath to which he replied 'with who?' Idiot man. I wanted to reply that he's put me off men for life but instead I've asked when he'll be gracing us with his presence.
I had a real wobble on saturday but I was fine by yesterday and had a brill mother's day. I can't say I'm looking forward to seeing stbxh, my DC have had no reason to be upset since he's stayed away. Best remind him I won't tolerate him flouncing off and hurting them ever again.

alice curt yet another classic FW trait! How very dare you not respond in line with his required timescales.

FW says that DD is lying, and he never told her to keep things quiet. Of course she's even more scared of seeing him now, and doesn't want to talk to him on the phone. I feel like I am doing all the chasing, trying to fix their relationship, due to his actions, yet again.

In order to be whiter than white, I need to send him a clear email explaining what's wrong and what he needs to do, as I'm effectively not making her available for contact. Don't really know where to start. Sounds so petty that we have a disagreement on whether or not he told her to keep secrets, but it's so fundamental to everything, and she's scared. I also don't know what to tell him he needs to do. Ermmm stop being a FW?!

noregrets typical him really, when we were together he constantly ignored my calls and texts or switched off his phone, but if I didn't pick up on the first call he wanted to know why, what was I doing that was more important. I remember when the twins were about 2 weeks old and I was struggling to recover from csection. He was working away and accused me of 'having someone over' because I didn't answer his call immediately. Err..yes, ok, I'm half dead through lack of sleep, cracked nipples from two hungry babies, losing blood like there's no tomorrow, in pain, and DD1 is still only a baby herself. I also look and feel like death. Totally aside from the fact that I'm faithful to you and it would never even enter my head to look elsewhere. Idiot man.
Urrgh. Anyway, rant over.
So yes, typical FW behaviour. If he even got a hint of me accusing him of anything I was all the names under the sun, and it still seems to apply now! The double standars are starkly evident even now we're separated.
So sorry to hear your DD is scared, noregrets, he shouldn't be surprised she doesn't want to speak to him, and he's essentially calling her a liar, isn't he, saying he never told her she couldn't mention it. I hope your email sets him straight.

Yes, double standards are unreal with STBXH. He can do whatever he wants, but I'm expected to do exactly what... he wants. Regardless of the cost, the time involved, the inconvenience, or whether or not it makes any sense whatsoever.

Drawing up particulars today for my "rules of engagement" from here on in. I will be writing it up and going over it with counsellor, as I want to set in place certain rules of behaviour that I plan to follow, and those that I expect STBXH to comply with - as in "if he behaves this particular way, ignore and detach, do not respond (or respond in a very specific manner in order to make it clear that the behaviour is not acceptable)." I find myself struggling sometimes to know how to respond - I think it's best if I have specific responses ready to go, that I can fall back on, rather than turn myself inside out trying to put together something sensible.

I'm tired of him playing stupid games - I want out of it. The only way to get that is to detach and respond in a calm detached way. I'm hoping this will help me get to that point.

alice that's what I'm attempting, stock answers and responses. He was very clever at pulling me into his mind games during our relationship and I refuse to let him do it now we're separated, I'm sick of mine and DC's lives still revolving around his whims.
The main thing I need to work on is how I react and respond, but at the same time I don't want him thinking he can get away with anything because I'll just take it.

First things first. I will do things in my own time frame. In other words, I answer texts and emails when I'm prepared to do so. I won't be rushed or harassed. If he sends repeated texts because I'm not answering quickly enough, I will have to be clear that any further harassment will be reported to the police. Any requests that are none of his business will be ignored (again, unless it becomes harassment at which point it will be reported).

Secondly I have a right to my own life and plans. This means I am not required to drop and/or alter my plans simply because he tries to throw a wrench into things. And my life and plans are my own business - he has no right to information about it.

Thirdly Regular contact visits will be scheduled in advance in writing either by letter, email, or text. No more popping into town and demanding I change my life around and taxi people around to suit him. It's not fair on me or the DCs. I'm still mulling over the time frame of how far in advance.

Fourthly I will use standard responses as needed, rather than allowing myself to be upset over unreasonable demands or requests. Phrases such as:

• I'm not willing to discuss that with you.
• Please put that in writing, either letter, email, or text, and I will get back to you. (in the event of a phone call demand)
• No. (it really IS a complete sentence)

So far, so good. I have a few more to sort out. I am going to put it all together. Fine tune it, print it, laminate it, and keep it nearby where I can see it (but the DCs can't).