Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

fff that's because your sister doesn't understand. don't feel bad - I had no respect for my FW and had built a concrete bunker around myself. Its called self preservation. (hello by the way, I'm a lurker and occasional poster)

Last night my fw decided it wasn't fair that he had to do all this stuff that social services are telling him to do and he's pissed off that people are telling him what to do...
What he doesn't realise is that if it wasn't for these people (his family) he wouldn't be seeing his kids at all. The same for ss too. It's all'oh woe is me' at the moment for him.

I'm starting to see the same things coming out that I saw last weekend when I called the police.

He seems flares up at me, then is full of remorse and, he needs me and can't do this without me.

I've told him not to contact me unless it's about the kids.

Got ss coming round tonight to talk about access to the kids for him him they are off to see him. I'm trying not to think of what he'll tell them as thy aren't stupid and will hopefully see him for what he is. Fortunately they seem to be switched on.

I just read back your sentences FFF

which seem to say, that you are not understanding why you are always expecting to be let down/lied to/have your guard up against... someone who lies to you, exaggerates the situation and has no respect for you?

and that because you feel this way in response to his behaviour, you feel bad about that?

I hope that you know that you don't need to and that its a completely normal reaction? Its the situation thats abnormal... actually...

Really hoping that CS see him for what he is Blue good luck with the meeting

fff, is your sister suggesting that you can change him? The number of times I returned to that little lie, and resolved to find the exact words which would get through to him, be the most patient I'd ever been, be perfect, this time.

It's so sad, the knots we tie ourselves in! And they look happily on, like they're watching a pet performing...

Like other posters have said, she doesn't understand. Well-meaning, but unhelpful.

Thank you ladies.

It really does help knowing that others understand. Even though I don't wish for any of you to have a shitty marriage.

All the counsellor wants to do is to delve into our childhoods. I don't see how this can be helpful. At some point we all have to take responsibility for our own actions. We are in our 40s now.

I do treat and speak to him differently than I do anyone else though. I am a very loving and caring person. And go out of my way for everyone else but I don't for him. It's just got me questioning why? Maybe I have made him feel insecure.

Should a relationship be this hard work?

No, it shouldn't, fff

I did wonder, after we separated, if I should have asked more about his childhood. Because the question was always why? Why behave like that? But I think actually, i was more important to understand mine, because what happened when I grew up shaped me and why I tolerated abuse. I spent a while unravelling that. There was actually a forty year continuum of various types of abuse.

But I would not have felt comfortable sharing that with someone who saw and exploited my vulnerabilities, firstly. And secondly, I am struggling how to explain this, leaving was about asserting a self who was NOT shaped by childhood, but somehow an adult saying enough.

Which is to say, you can analyse and try to understand till kingdom come, but that itself won't change anything. If you are not seeing a change in his behaviour, the couples counselling is not working; and if it is telling him where your vulnerabilities lie, it is positively dangerous, imo.

I think it's a mixed bag, really. I have spoken to my counsellor about my childhood to some extent, because I feel that the relationship I had with my parents set me up for the relationships I have had as an adult. From abuse to abuse IYSWIM. Even working in law enforcement, I didn't see it immediately and I didn't think the low level stuff was "abuse" just upsetting. Obviously I know better now and I see things much more clearly, even though it's still difficult to break the patterns.

STBXH is being awful. I find myself wondering how he can treat someone he professed to love so dreadfully. I also can't help but wonder why some of his behaviour doesn't trigger HUGE red flags to his OW. But of course, it's most likely a combination of her being used to this type of relationship and either not seeing or ignoring the red flags. Whilst I am not impressed with her part in this, I can't help but feel sorry for her. I suspect when he does turn, she'll feel just as blindsided as I did. It's her children I really feel sorry for.

But I do find it difficult to turn it off - to shut out all the nasty dreadful things he is saying. I guess mainly because they are simply not true.

I want to put money aside for the solicitor, however, I am not ready to start the divorce yet. I think I may speak to the solicitor and "retain" him, however, just start paying a monthly amount to an account with him just to be ready to file the divorce at any time that I am ready.

Thanks daffodil.
That sentence really did hit home .... I'm not comfortable sharing my vulnerabilities with someone who would exploit them and use them against me.
That is it

Thank you.

I don't think even knowing about his childhood will help much. I spoke to MIL about STBXH's childhood. His dad was strict but wasn't a shouter, not abusive, not hit. He had a normal happy childhood, from all accounts. So no skeletons that are tormenting him. No trauma wrenching his psyche. What does that leave? That he's just abusive.

He DOES constantly make himself out to be the victim. It's always HIS things that get broken, HIS things that get lost, always HIM that bad things happen to, if anything bad does happen it's always the worst possible and his illness is always the worst and he replays any kind of trauma and feeds off it for ages. It's his excuse for being horrible.

Apart from court fees I paid nothing for divorce till it was over came to ~1K. The financial settlement came afterwards in my case, as DC grown and pensions negligible, I could progress to absolute. I had been trying to negotiate, but FW wouldn't supply financial details when sol asked him for them!

I paid ~3K for the settlement, plus some more court fees as I had to start legal proceedings before FW would fill in a Form E. £100 for a mediation session, just over £100 for Marital House valuation (different from an ordinary valuation). Oh, and the conveyancing fee for putting the house in my sole name. I only paid the solicitor after the house had been transferred. (This was in 2011).

So it might be worth checking when they would want paying.

*2012 - started divorce in Sept 2011, nisi Jan 12, absolute Feb 12, then settlement, all sorted by Aug 2012.

Neither of us has any financial windfalls or imbalances, really. So the solicitor said that as long as we were both in agreement, we could just agree basically that we're both broke. I suspect he will agree to that - as he won't want to tell me where he's at financially regardless. And as far as pensions, he has two, but they're not huge and one was from before I even met him, the other is for about 7-8 years worth of working in low wage job. I have one, but it's only for about 3 years worth of working. So I'm happy for both of us to keep our own pensions and not worry about that too. No house to argue over.

I think he would agree to almost anything just to get it done so he can get married to his OW. I'm reaching a point where I think it might be to my benefit just to get it done and over with. I'm considering it. I was going to wait another year, but if I can get the money together over the next few months, I may just do that. We'll see how it goes.

The solicitor told me it would most likely be about £1k. I think STBXH will be angry when I mention the abuse as the reason (as he thinks he has done nothing wrong), but if he wants it to go through, he won't quibble.

Alice, do you not need to agree arrangements for the children? I know he is not being responsible atm, and there are PA concerns, but do the court not expect some kind of arrangement there? I am in a different jurisdiction, so it is a genuine question.

yes. it is the one sticking point. he will not be agreeable on anything regarding the children, IMO. There's a slight chance that he'll just say "whatever" to everything just to get the divorce done and dusted so he can get married again. I honestly don't know anymore.

You don't have to agree anything properly re: children to get the divorce through (in england?) - just have to fill in a 'statement of arrangements' to reassure the judge they're OK. Eg in my case it just says she lives with me, and has lots of contact with him.

Hello all. No contact from stbxh since monday, so no visit on wednesday. DD1 (3) who's been dry for the last twelve months or so has had two wet beds in as many nights. I haven't made a fuss, just changed her and popped her in with me for cuddles. Not sure if it's related to the upset on sunday or just one of those things.
I'm not sure if stbxh was serious about not seeing them again or just attempting more manipulation. I feel like a conversation should happen sooner rather than later, which I suppose I'll have to instigate, to ascertain what his final stance is.

STBXH said he wasn't coming anywhere near me while he's in the area. Not heard anything from him since, although my understanding from others is that he's blaming me for "not letting him see his kids because I'm jealous of his girlfriend." Utter rot. It was his decision and I'm not hunting him down and pushing him to see the DCs. I don't think they benefit from the contact anyway at this point - he just gets aggressive and abusive every time he's with them. I think it does more damage than good.

an oh so familiar chime that one Alice - despite that I actually was relieved that another person would be around to perhaps ensure that things didn't get out of hand again (another fooolish belief!)

If he's said he's not seeing them again Curt - you'll have to believe him? only he can 'unsay' that, or change his mind? He's just trying to punish you and pull you in iwould say?

Hopefully only another week and then STBXH will be out of town again. I worry that he'll show up and kick off, which will only upset the DCs. He's always been one to cancel his contact visits at a moment's notice when he's not happy with something I've said or what he perceives as "my attitude" which is what he did for this 2 week stint while he was in town. Hopefully he'll stick to that and just go back without harassing us further. The DCs have finally calmed down somewhat, they're still trying to get their heads around some of the stuff he's done (the moving), and I haven't even figured out yet the best way to tell them carefully about STBXH's new "family" as I'm sure it will upset them quite a bit.

I don't understand why he is being so incredibly vile. He's got what he wants really - a complete absence of responsibility - why can't he just be happy with that and go away?

Alice, he eventually will go away. The other thing he wants, I think, in addition to a complete absence of responsibility, is attention (something of a contradiction). He wants you to react. Don't give him that; anything from you can come from your solicitor.

And really, from here on in, any contact I would say, should be agreed in advance legally through mediation. This coming and going on a whim, and holding you and DC hostage to his moods, should stop. So, if he does get in touch, the answer should be, please contact my solicitor.

You need space, not to be fire-fighting this all the time.

Stbxh is telling anyone who'll listen that I've made it impossible for him to see our DC. Lies. There's only one person stopping him from seeing them, and it's him.

A friend of mine pointed out today that he's probably ramping up the vile behaviour because I'm not just rolling over every time he demands something now. I was being a bit of a doormat because he was coming into my home a couple times weekly to see the DCs, so I felt I had to keep him calm and avoid any confrontations, so I ended up giving in on things I didn't want to. Now he's not coming into my home, I'm more willing to plant my feet and say no. So he's reacting to that.

yep. I've also heard and experienced the thrashing about once you set your boundaries Alice I think tis true.

Can I ask you all something?

How do you speak to your partners?

I ask this because the counsellor has addressed the way we speak to each other. And I have thought about it. We speak to each other in an aggressive, dismissive way. Not even very nice to each other. I don't speak to ANYONE else like this. It's not my nature at all. I am ashamed

Do you show your love to your partner?

I am a VERY loving person to everyone else except him. I tell sons every day that I love them and they do me. I put loads of effort into my friends and show them how much they mean to me. But not him.

I am feeling that I am to blame for my husbands insecurity and I am feeling bad

Well, there are two of you in the situation, fff.

There are two ways to respond to an abusive relationship, you can accept the abuse and be submissive, or you react. It is not even that conscious, it is survival. I became shouty, I was stressed, it was not the person I wanted to be. I could not be the person I wanted to be. That was one of the reasons I left.

If you are not the person you want to be in a relationship, you can change your behaviour or you can leave. If changing your behaviour means accepting abuse, or losing yourself to be what the other person wants, rather than who you are, you can leave.