Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Yep. STBXH was going to visit the DCs over the next week or two that he was here, but then he got nasty and said basically forget it.

I'm not having it. I got us away from him because his enotional abuse was killing me, now my beautiful babies are getting hurt in order to hurt me. Not happening. I want his word, in writing, that he won't behave like that again. If he refuses then I'll see him in court.
What he did today caused more damage than good and I'm not putting them through it again. I've documented every missed visit, every time he's turned up in excess of an hour late with no decent excuse, every time he's walked out and the pathetic reasons behind it. They deserve better and I'm not going to just roll over and let him hurt them like this.

Hi ladies.

I haven't been here for a while but still in same boat.
I don't know whether you remember. Charlotte, bounty ??

Together for 23 years. 2 DS 24 and 19.
Husband unfortunately is insecure and jealous and controlling.
I was sahm until last year. Got office job which I love.
He controlled all finances.
We separated last summer for 6 months after he lost his temper and accused me of cheating when I was actually seeing a sick girlfriend in hospital.
Started counselling at that time. He moved back to the home after 6 months into spare room. We are still having counselling.
Yet I am still saying the same things. Last week he came into a pub where I was meeting my friend to check up on me.
I have never and would never cheat.
He sulks and is abusive. But I have invested 23 years and feel sorry for him. I do love him but times I don't like him.
I just don't know what to do.

Hi funnyfish , didn't want to read and run. This must be a really difficult situation. Obviously you've invested many years in your marriage but can I ask has your DH always been like this? It's hard when you're a sahm and financially dependent on your partner. As a sahm myself, it was the finance side of leaving that was the most daunting, not that I was worried about being 'poor', just that I wasn't sure what I was entitled to as my 3 DC are still babies.
Now you're working and have adult children, is leaving something you've been considering or am I way off?

funnyfish Much as you may love him and have invested 23 years, do you really feel sorry enough to invest another 23 years being miserable? Your children are adults. They will understand. Feeling sorry for someone is not a good basis for a relationship.

MIL is in hospital now, poor woman. She's recovering from surgery, and hoping she'll be okay in time for the funeral. I've visited her this morning (outside of visiting hours with permission of MIL and nurses), and will pop in to make sure she doesn't need anything as she gets better. Just a flying visit - 10 minutes or so - as I don't want to wear her out, she's still quite exhausted. But thankfully she is on the mend, so I've told DCs she is in hospital and poorly, but getting better slowly, as they cannot go in hospital to see her.

Hi funnyfishface,

i remember you, though I was posting under a different name (not Charlotte or Bounty).

Are you having individual counselling? I would suggest that as well as couples counselling. Talk also to Women's Aid, if you can. It doesn't need to be a desparate, life or death situation, you are in a position where you are being abused and controlled and your situation is just as worth their time and advice.

It is really great that you have a job that you love, this gives you some financial and social independence, so stick with that at all costs. You do not have to make the decision to leave overnight. FWIW, they don't change; the thing which changes over time once you start talking and getting RL support is you.

I'll see your 23 years, funnyfish, and raise you 27 years married, and several years living together before that. and a terrible on/off relationship before that, my fault

Two DCs grown, a changed financial situation, a horrendous summer 2011, discovering MN the same year, and my road to divorce and freedom began. It's never too late, I have just had the best year of my life so far!

yay! shimmering so lovely to hear what an inspiration...

FFF avoid couples counselling and stick with the specialist advice that is WA. Other generic services can undermine women and result in sticking with an abusive rs (its scarey what lies underneath the charming/good veneer [public face/hoovering] ).

Keep talking it through.

Alice poor MIL .. aw dear, what a lot she is going through, thank goodness she has some kind support from you.

I made the mistake of answering the phone to stbxh earlier. He just ranted at me so I hung up and said please text when you want to visit DC. He text back and said he won't arrange contact with DC via text. He told me if I don't call him or answer his calls I obviously don't want him in their lives and if I don't call him he won't see them again. I said I'm happy for him to see them and I'm not trying to be obstructive, and told him if he wanted to see DC he wouldn't care how it was arranged, he'd just get on and do it.
He's just sent some vile texts in response, one saying we can all eff off as he doesn't give a shit and will be far happier without us.
I just replied would he really rather walk away than arrange visits as I'd requested?
He replied that I'm retarded and DC will turn out the same so eff off because they are no loss to him.
Stunned. Upset at the things he said about my beautiful babies. Not sure if he means it about not seeing them again or if it's more manipulation.
Haven't replied. Really don't know how to respond. Or even if I should.

i can't believe how awful he has shown himself to be Curt really for you all. I'm so sorry

It seems if he can't control you through the DC then he gets no benefit from seeing them.. Effing FW!

Thanks fairy ..He was awful yesterday, just flouncing out having only been in the house five minutes and leaving 3 distraught DC in his wake.
It's not about seeing our DC, if it was then he'd have stayed yesterday and spent time with them instead of spitting his dummy over nothing..and today he'd just have agreed to arranging a visit via text. It's not about being part of our DC life, it's about me continuing to do as I'm told and if I don't, he'd rather walk away from these beautiful, amazing little ones.
I don't know what to do, if anything, I feel angry and numb at the same time. If he texts to apologise do I just carry on like it never happened and continue letting him do this time after time? Do I respond to his text and say what I really think of him or just leave him to it? I'm at a loss .

these feelings pass and the experience teaches us lots thankfully. I recall similar, all to punish me because he knew I'd be upset about DC being dropped, but I was totally honest about the reason to DC, i think it was the first time i didn't cover for him, and he sent me a hugely abusive email as a result saying that i had gone as low as I could go in telling DC what he'd done instead of covering his abusive arse for him

unfortunately the DC will learn from the experience and any future pains he causes them, just so long as you all know its the FW causing the pain, and yep he can do what he likes can't he? Do not respond to him atall.

just leave the way open for them to see him when they want/need to. Sadly they too very soon come to realise what a FW he is.

Sorry this might be long... And I need to vent...

I've had a rubbish relationship with my DH for years. We had a dd early on in the relationship, got married, he had an affair, convinced me it was an EA, a month later he lied when meeting up with a woman from work, several years later I find out the affair HAD been physical, but like an idiot I stayed. He's one if life's miserable people and has dragged us down for years. I've lost friends because of him and I'm no longer the 'happy go lucky' person I was.

He then started to suffer from anxiety and depression. Things were terrible but we cut him slack - in sickness and health and all that.

Last weekend he lost it, and I ended up calling the police and he was arrested for assault on me. The DCs were in the house but uninvolved. He stopped me leaving the house physically and I've never been so frightened in my life. He spent an hour and a half abusing me verbally and physically.

He's staying at his mums now and will be going to his dads this week. I've arranged with him and and his family, that he can have supervised access with the children until his tablets have had a few weeks to take effect and he's received counciling.

I've made my mind up that I no longer want to be in a relationship with him but he's trying very hard to convince me otherwise. How do I pull back but still ensure the kids don't get caught in the middle?

I know I'm right and life is too short to be this fucking hard..

bluedog sounds like you're making the right decisions. It's hard to pull back and keep things separate, I know. I'm still dealing with that here to some extent. STBXH seems to have come to the decision that he wants to submarine my relationship with my MIL (including her relationship with the DCs ) in order to "make room" for his OW. It baffles me utterly, as my relationship with MIL (and that of the DCs) is completely separate from him, and is none of his business. He has done everything possible to keep me from seeing her. I fully expect to get some hassle today when I go to visit her at hospital. It's ridiculous really. I get so tired of the stupid games he plays.

I just need to get through the next couple weeks, and then hopefully he will piss off back to London and we can get back to a relatively normal life again.

Hmmmm....some serious concerns here that I've killed the thread.

STBXH posted this the other day:

Well my bitch. Of a wife who I'm seperated from showed her true colours today fuckin jealousy because I'm with someone else never mind I have to lay my sister to rest it's all about the cow bag guess I won't be seeing my boys anytime soon don't want to be in same town as the mouthy cow let alone house

Aside from the obvious spelling and grammatical errors, it's charming isn't it? And he's now calling the OW his "missus". I'm wondering how people who have known me could possibly believe this type of behaviour from me? Oh, well. My friends know better. (and some of his family know better as well)

I've had another load of text messages asking if we can try again and is it over...

He's still not thinking of me (why do I continue to be surprised)

I told him I'll sit down and talk to him in a weeks time if he backs off now

bluedog I tried that with STBXH just to put him off... didn't work, as it still gave him the message that I was considering getting back together, when I sooooo wasn't. He is STILL convinced that I want him back (as you can see from my above post). God knows why as I certainly don't.

I wonder sometimes if it isn't just best to go straight to "stop harassing me or I will ring the police." and get it over with. I think it may have gotten the message across to STBXH sooner anyway.

my sister sent me this image. love it. It says Karma. No need for revenge. Just sit back and wait. Those who hurt you will screw up themselves and if you're lucky, God will let you watch.

The thread just goes like that sometimes, alice. I didn't post anything as it's not my area of experience, but warm vibes are always flowing onto this thread from me :)

Alice bluedog hi, its all about control isn't it. And them feeling our role is to offer them support (like a mother) not anything reciprocal or that we can call a stop to alone.

I dropped by after months off the thread (new emergency with DS in deep distress over bullying, needing to be withdrawn from school.) FW - who is in another country, leaving me to do all the childcare and now this emergency stuff, is now accusing me of using him, FW, because I am demanding emotional support (how?) and not giving it back. I feel this deep weariness. I am so up to my ears in it with work and DS's situation, and support to him. To have a tantrumming FW trying to get a bit of attention for him too is just past what I can cope with. Argh. FW doesn't seem able to grasp there are issues we need to discuss as parents - or if it were me I'd want to be involved in discussing - which isn't about my need for support, but about his kids. But somehow if it isn't for him, well it doesn't count.

FW keeps saying, we had a really good relationship for x years until this last bit. and I keep saying, well you didn't actually respond to what I wanted. Yes it was a good relationship for you because it was all on your terms. But I can just walk away. And have. How, a year on, can he still be in such deep denial, so angry that he's asked x times to try again and I won't - as if asking lots should change the answer. OMG

Best wishes to you all, rant over. sighs.

Fw had dd for the weekend. She called him by dps name. She has come home refusing to let dp anywhere near her, saying she doesn't know his name and had told nursery he isn't allowed to touch her and is nasty.

She's 2 years old ffs!! How can her own father, who claims to only be doing what's in her best interests, who says I'm a bad mother because I don't, confuse her and manipulate her like that!?

But still I'm trying to find excuses and justifications for his behaviour

Oh got, your poor DD and your poor DP, I am so, so sorry. My stbxh started manipulating my 3 yr old like this but with me, telling her I'm a nasty, naughty mummy .
This weekend he stormed out and left three heartbroken babies behind him and I told him I wouldn't tolerate it anymore. He replied we can all eff off and if I want him to see our DC I'll have to call him. It will be a cold day in hell when I do that.
How can they do it got? because they're bastards of the highest order and sadly we've let them get away with it for so long they think they'll always be able to.
Not in my house, matey. Not anymore.
Signed
Seriously pissed off

Blue dog and Alice - your fw sound awful. I am so sorry for you. Hugs to you both.

Life and marriage shouldn't be this hard work should it.

I have just had a chat with my lovely sister tonight and she raised a few points that have really hit home.

She said that we talk to each other and show no respect for the other one. Which I know is true. It's awful really. But I don't respect him. I assume that most of what he says is either a lie or an exaggeration. It generally is.

And she wondered if I give my husband as much love and affection as I give to everyone else. The answer is no. I have my guard up all the time. And always have had. I'm almost waiting to be let down by him.

Does that make any sense to you? I feel so bad

It makes sense to me funny - I began to lose my respect for my H in 2004 but was too depressed to do anything but plough on, especially as kids were then young teens, with the occasional hope being raised that he would still come good.

By the end it had turned into contempt. The feeling, I am sure from his behaviour and his letters, was mutual.