DP tried to have sex with me as I slept... (may be TMI)

[ChryslerBuilding]

Name changed for this ... :(

Last night DP and I went out for a few drinks, post-Christmas.

We got home, got into bed, and thought about having sex. I declined, saying I was too tired, and DP was absolutely fine with it. We had both drunk a bit, but he was drunker than I was.

I started waking up to the feeling of fingers inside me, and then he penetrated me, from behind. I was lying in my usual 'sleep' position so he had to have moved to get bodily contact iyswim ... I hadn't made any overtures of any sort. At that point I woke up, and immediately turned over and started shouting at him and, I'm afraid, hitting out at him.

He hadn't used a condom which I also have a huge problem with as it is our method of contraception so our understanding is that we use condoms.

DP seemed disorientated, and sat up and tried to put on a condom (!!!) which I made him remove, and told him to get out.

We had a guest staying in the house, so I didn't make a big fuss, and this morning tried to act normally ... but now I've got back from taking my friend to the station, and shouted at DP, thrown some cutlery and burst out crying. I feel completely violated ... I hate him ... he seems remorseful and his defense is that he was drunk/half-asleep, and he thought I was involved somehow. He is also hungover, whereas I am fine.

I don't know what to do. I know that this is rape. I was not just unconsenting, I had actually declined sex before we went to bed. Also, he didn't use a condom ... that says to me he was drunk/half-asleep but if I heard this story from a friend, I would tell her to phone the effing police... what do I do ... is this forgivable, and is the relationship salvageable?

Sorry, long... trying not to dripfeed.

Have you been together long? Just wondered as if not you wouldn't know if he's done it to someone in past. If you've been together for a long time then I'm sure you'd be aware if this is something he would do as imagine he's have tried before. Have you ever been woken by him trying etc? I heard recently about someone who did this in their sleep an had no idea! I'm sure the drink was a big part of it though especially when he was fumbling for a condom as maybe he was too confused to understand what you were saying and went for the condom in an automatic response as what he would normally do during sex.
I hope you get things sorted. I'm sorry I have no experience but I'm sure the drunken thing has a lot to do with it and him not being aware of what he was doing or the ability to stop himself. Scary if your not sure if it would happen again! Does he actually remember any of it?

Oh sweetheart, I'm so sorry that this happened to you . I had a similar expereince with my DH, but he never tried to penetrate me, just wanked over me. I woke up at the end, and felt utterly violated; I was lying on my back and he was straddled over my legs and I couldn't move them. We have survivied it, mainly because he was so desperately cowed and understood that what he did was unacceptable. He had thought it was OK to do it as when he started trying to get me aroused, I was making reciprocating noises. I probably was, but then went back to sleep whilst he carried on. We talked it out a lot and, I made it clear that I was in no way consenting if I wasn't awake and that it wsas a violation of my personal space and my body. He understood the implications and knows that if anything happens like that again, he will be out on his ear. Our relationship since hasn't been that great for various unconnected reasons, but I must admit that I am still very wary, and yes I do worry that he will do it again. I think once trust has been broken in this way, it's very very difficult to get it back.

Talk to WA; they will help you decide what you want/need to do. And in the meantime, I think that he should do the right thing and go to his brother's to give you some space; not wait for you to chuck him out. His reaction over the next few days will be telling I'm afraid. And him being drunk is absolutely no excuse.

Was he asleep when you woke up? I once woke up with XP and we were having sex. We were both asleep, naked, and somehow we managed to have totally asleep sex. I'm wondering whether this is possible if he was that drunk - and if he was genuinely asleep then he may not have intended to rape you.

However, I'm really not a rape apologist and if he was awake when he chose to do it then drunk or not it was rape. I'm really sorry this has happened. I don't think you can feel safe with him again.

lackaDAISYcal!!!!! That's terrible! What if you never woke up! Would he have just gone back to sleep!!
Can't believe how some men can be!

to me, and talking as I assume about a normally great bloke, who would not normally defend these sort of actions - and who stopped when challenged, albeit in a confused way, ie putting on a johnny when maybe he thought that was the issue, only it wasn't (the only one) I would be wondering if he was sort of sleep-acting, you know, like sleep walking but with sex or whatever.

Especially if he seems shocked with himself.

I have had a man try and sleep with me when I was asleep and had not consented. I threw him out but he was sober and knew what he was doing, creepy bastard.

If he had been drunk I'd have thought 'you stupid dick' and assumed no ill intention, just stupid pissedness and being very sleepy.

It all depends on how sleepy he was, how pissed he was and whether he is normally a creepy fucker who transgresses your boundaries and tries to argue that he is right to do this.

Because I have known at least one of each and there is a massive difference. Your H from where I am sitting is not a bad bloke. But I don't know him.

How long have you known him? Any form for minimising sexual assault?

You cannot continue in a relationship with someone you have reported for rape.

I think it has to be something you are really clear about, because that there is you detaching yourself from him in a conclusive way and you cannot go back from that.

I am not saying don't report and it will go away. I'm saying that you need to be clear what you consider his intentions were and are, and whether he did it 'by mistake' genuinely, or whether he just disregarded your feelings intentionally.

Intention to me is a massive issue here. We don't know this guy. You do and if you are thinking it is intentional, rather than pissed/sleepwalking rape then you know what to do.

If you have doubts that he would have any inclination whatsoever to have ignored your feelings then you need to give it a bit more time I think till you are sure it's what you want to do.

If he was aware - it is very bad.

If he was genuinely half-asleep/drunk (drunk not an excuse, but I mean as in wasn't aware) and is v remorseful - I would try to move forward.

I've woken up once groping my DP in my sleep and had no idea at all, was part of a dream - apologised (was fine) and just felt a tad embarrassed.

It sounds as if he was half asleep himself but could it be that he didn't realise how asleep you were? If he thought you were awake and (because of your silence/'lack of protest') were 'allowing him' to start with some foreplay perhaps he thought you'd changed your mind and were consenting. Only works if you'd just nodded off though and could still feasibly have been awake

Rooners is right

DP and I just had a conversation about it ... I don't believe there was malicious intent. He seems genuinely mortified. We've known each other for years, been together for over a year and live together - he doesn't have previous form.

However, I still don't believe drunkedness is an excuse, and it certainly doesn't cancel out the violation I feel. He has been monumentally stupid because of alcohol, and an amount of selfishness/assumption. He's talking about alcohol being an issue and cutting down...

I'm going to think on this and phone Rape Crisis in the evening. I'll post back after speaking with Rape Crisis, as I'm pretty much in limbo until then. I don't want this relationship to end, but not sure how it will progress from here - as someone else said, the next day or two will be very important.

I don't feel I'm in danger, to be honest, or I'd send him to his brother's. He's just skulking about making endless cups of tea.

Joysmum thank you for your story ... an unmumsnetty hug back to you!

I'm so sorry this happened.

I agree that he should go to his brother's. And in the meantime go no-contact (as much as practicable) so that you have the headspace to get support and figure out how to proceed. See if he can stay away for a month or more.

If he stays right there I think the temptation would be too great to just get on with life.

What if he was genuinely still asleep though? Sounds to me like him putting a condom in when you shouted isn't something He would do if he'd been in his right mind?

Only a year isn't very long and if he says he has alcohol issues, believe him.

I'd be less inclined to be staying in the relationship with something of such short duration - why was his single before for so long - does he know he is a bit weird around sexual boundaries?

If he needs fixing in any way I'd probably walk right now

and if your instinct says don't trust him then don't trust him.

But if he thinks he was unaware what he was doing, it may be true. In which case that's something that can be imo overcome in the right bloke.

Sorry you feel so crap - I would feel violated too - whatever his intentions, you are right, it doesn't make what he did Ok. Just either forgiveable or not forgiveable iyswim. (sorry Rooners here under namechange)

I absolutely cannot buy that he didn't know what he was doing, I'm sorry.

We've all sort of rolled on or thumped a partner in the midst of a dream. My husband once kicked me in his sleep because he thought I was a door.

What he did here was far too specific.

I'm really sorry this happened to you OP and I hope you are ok.

It's not clear to me from your OP whether your husband was fully awake until after you woke fully and confronted him, and whether he was fully cognisant when he put on a condom. How I would react to this would be dependant on what I felt happened at this stage.

I know because my now-DH used to have a sleep sex problem. On the early days of our relationship, many years ago, he would be fully asleep but groping me. His previous girlfriends had apparently always responded sexually so he often woke up mid coitus. I was very vocal in my disapproval of this and eventually he stopped completely, almost like his responses were retrained.

I wonder if your partner was drunk and asleep and didn't know what he was doing, responded to your objections by understanding it was the lack of condom that was the issue, then stopped when he woke fully and understood.

Only you can talk to him to find out the truth. I fully understand how awful it can feel - like a betrayal and violation - so I'm not trying to minimise his actions, only put forward the possibility that he may not have been awake.

Nonetheless it is his response and actions now which will decide what happens next / the fact that he is suggesting limiting alcohol is a good sign imho.

Rooners has articulated much more tactfully what I was trying to say. If there is previous form for him not caring about your feelings then there is far more cause for alarm than if this was a bleary, unintended mistake.

However, if 'you' know it was rape, in other words, no matter what anyone else or the law thinks, then there is little chance of the relationship working out and I am very sorry this has happened to you.

We are all different, with different experiences and personalities, and I shouldn't be told I'm wrong for 'my' automatic impulse that it is not rape - he stopped when you said to, and while there is confusion over the condom thing, it suggests he wasn't fully compos mentis.

To everyone else who jumped on me - every relationship has its own dynamics and rules, and what is considered wrong in one may be welcomed in another depending on the people involved.

Just say I or other people would welcome this kind of advance in our sleep - (as some people would) - are you then saying I like being raped? Should I now start thinking my husband who has done this a few times is now a rapist?

It is completely subjective, and therefore if OP knows it was rape, then she must act on that. However, in her opening post, she asks for opinions on what to do and if she can forgive. The overwhelming majority have said police and absolutely no.

I'm not going to apologise for thinking, yes, speak to a rape crisis counsellor about your feelings, try to understand and forgive, set clear boundaries going forward and forget about the police unless the situation repeats itself or escalates.

Nice victim blaming tinpot
This is rape. The OP explicitly denied consent.

I'm really sorry you're going through this OP, you sound very upset (understandably).

I do think Rooners is right. There is something to be said about the sleep-sex thing; an XP told me very early on in a relationship that he'd done the sex whilst asleep thing and had absolutely no recollection of it the next day, and I mean none. He wasn't in any way creepy or making excuses and was secretly a rapist (I did get to know him very well and he was very respectful towards women). It did happen twice but I was awake both times and happy, so there was never an issue.
However your situation sounds different. And my experience is was it is, I'm certainly no rape apologist. You know him, so if you felt it was rape, then please do whatever you need to do, whether it's getting support from WA and/or reporting it. Hope you're ok, more hugs from me!

Think it would be a good idea to talk to Rape Crisis.

It is rape and assault if he penetrated you without your consent - I don't know if penetration by fingers alone would be rape, but it's certainly a sexual assault. Given that he penetrated you with his penis without your consent, that is certainly rape.

Drunkenness is NOT an excuse. Most people don't commit rape because they are drunk.

The key thing tinpot is that the op had already refused consent earlier in the night, so if he was aware of what he was doing then it was absolutely rape

Not if he thought she was awake and consciously allowing him to penetrate her (with his fingers). Surely this could be thought of as implied consent. IF he thought she was awake.

Tinpotted, if your husband has done this a few times to you then yes, you should think he is a rapist.

Chrysler - I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I can't see how you can stay with him after this. If your relationship is relatively short term and you have no DC then I would be making a clean break right now.

Oh I didn't mean that because some people like to be woken by penetration, this makes it Ok. I don't think that at all. If he was saying that it was Ok because of that - or because of anything else - I'd call foul.

But it sounds like he isn't. I'm really wondering if it was a genuine error on his part. Properly genuine. Not 'Oh I'll see if she likes it after all', not in ANY way planned or considered. Just a misunderstanding of the simplest sort.

If so then I could forgive that - but if it was in any way intended to transgress, or the transgression was being excused/argued away then I could not forgive that.

If your husband has sex without your consent, tinpotted, he is a rapist.

There is no debate on that.

You staying him and accepting his behaviour doesn't make him any less of a rapist by law.

But this isn't helpful to the OP, so if you want to start a rape denying thread there is plenty of room on the forum elsewhere to do so.