"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Hello Harlot,

The first thing you need to do is define family. What is family? What does it mean? Do your parents fit into this? You already know that answer to this.

Family is not defined by who we are related to by blood - they are just relatives. A family is something else altogether and you have this already in the form of your DH and dc. There is no reason to be sad. Despite of your abuse you have given yourself something that you desperately needed - a true family.

As for the guilt, these two elderly people brought it on themselves. They are reaping the result of years and years of abuse. DO NOT let theri age blind you into feeling guilty. I have no doubt they will find a way to get what they want this year, with or without you. Don't give them a second thought, because they've certainly never done that for you.

Hi Harlot Christmas is about happy times, and spending time with loved ones & celebrating. You cannot do any of these with your parents, and for one they would not make you happy!

They bought this on themselves and they now must pay the consequence.
You are doing nothing wrong xx

Attila Merry Christmas! Have a lovely, lovely holiday As others have said you have helped a lot of people on Mumsnet, me included, and your wise words are always appreciated

Anyway, have a great time and see you in the New Year

I'm confussed. My head is all over the place at the moment.

My DF (dear father?) was violent towards my older brothers, but not towards me, maybe I was the 'golden child' in his eyes. I'm adopted, and the youngest, my brothers are their 'natural' children. I was born in the 70s, had the usual smacks when naughty. But DF had a stick for my brothers, I never had that.

My DM (dear mother?) reported back to DF when he came in from work about my brothers behaviour (I don't remember this, my brothers have told me) - sibling squables etc. My DF would then drag my DBs out of bed & beat them. My brothers feel that she was instrumental in the beatings by 'telling on them'.

My DBs hated my DF & shed no tears when he died. One of my brothers has described me as existing in our parents eyes as a child to be indulged. I had dance lessons, music lessons, horse riding etc.

But stuff happened, for example:

I had a head injury (pre school), but didn't see a doctor & wasn't taken to hospital. I remember my head kept sticking to my pillow because the wound was bleeding. I spent days in bed & still have the scar. My DM does not remember this. (if it was one of my dcs i would have gone to the hospital in a panic)

When my dad died from a sudden heart attack DM told me it was because of the stress I had caused him. She mocked me when I cried.

she hit me when I was about 7mths pregnant. I was 17, I probably said something to deserve it. She did apologise immediately afterwards. It didn't hurt.

she has never told me she loves me. she's not a 'hugger'.

when I was in labour with my first child she did come to the hospital with me, but left me on my own, because she had to work the next day. I was 18 & a single parent. Odd thing is, I accepted it when she said 'goodbye'. she then guilt tripped me the next day as i hadn't phoned her to tell her what i'd had (I was a bit knackered after a 26hr labour)

There is so much more. she seems to delight in my pain & can be incredibly cruel.

Is it me being over sensitive?
I married a man who is like her (they hate each other).

I feel like i'm betraying her by posting this.

I'd really appreciate your thoughts ...

Other stuff -

A man who is currently serving time for being a paedophile - i told DM about him coming into our house 'looking for my parents' & grabbing me around the waist, i was 14 they were out at the time. DM laughed about it ('oh, its just how he is, don't be silly) if it had been reported, other young girls would not have had to go through what they did.

You're not betraying her love.

By talking about this, by allowing yourself to remember the truth, you are no longer betraying yourself.

This is the start of you healing.

If this is healing hissy, its a very bleak place to be.

I drank just to write that down. Not a good idea as even one glass leads to suicidal thoughts. They have passed now. It was 3 glasses, Kicking myself now as ive been alcohol free for 5mths. My birth mum was an alcoholic, she was in her 40s when she died (alcohol related illness)
My adoptive parents gave me my 1st alcoholic drink when I was 2yo.

Hope everyone is coping in the run up to christmas.

You are allowing yourself to feel, acknowledging what has been done to you. That is overwhelming at first, but if you tell yourself that what has happened, happened in the past and can't hurt you now, that it's ok to feel and that you can get through it, then you will be healing.

Oh god yes it feels hard, but letting go of the past, allowing yourself to feel the feelings you weren't able to express at the time through fear, control or whatever it was that stopped you at the time is the way to where you need to be.

Do you have a counsellor? It really helps if you have a professional alongside you.

I found trying to focus on where I wanted to be psychologically has helped me get closer to where I wanted to be.

My goal was to get to a place where all this stuff didn't hurt so much, where I could accept that these people had done what they'd done and it was their choice. None of it meant a thing about who I was.

Ok i'm still working on separating the past and the crap and my view about myself, but I know logically that I didn't 'deserve this'

I hope that over time it gets easier.

Don't give up on yourself. It is a hard journey, but you genuinely can do it.

You had a drink today, but that was to give you the 'courage' to do something that you did have to do. You've done it now, and can come back and read it again and again to remind yourself of what you need to heal from.

When we carry all this stuff in our heads, when it's all jumbled up, hidden by shame, it often appears more terrifying than actually it really is.

Is there someone you can call to support you in RL to get alcohol free again? I don't know what to advise here, all I can think of is to say that yesterday was yesterday, today is another day. Start again. Recover from a blip.

You really CAN get through this, you won't crumble, fall or fail. Stay focussed and determined. You really are worth that effort!

don't really have anything to add to Hissy's post but just wanted to say hi. You did the right thing by posting on here and thoroughly recommend finding a counsellor you can trust and open up to.

Welcome Radio, sorry for what you have gone through. Most people have a drink or two when going through hardship/emotional problems, it's only a problem if you make it a regular thing. Sometimes a drink helps us realise how we truly feel and how to put a pen to paper xx

In my neck of the woods mil is still on the warpath, another text last night "when are you going to fone me son", every single day without fail, there is something! On a brighter note, so far no turning up with gifts as of yet
I'm guessing that the threat will not happen anyhow as last year they were much better used as bargaining tools, i'm sure the same will happen again as they like repeativness!

Dh is coping well, but still undecided about what to do re his phone. I haven't managed to get him to agree yet and he does have a certain amount of guilt going in regards to mil at the moment. His exact words is that he is "proud of my girls, and would like to show them off"! I told him showing them off to mil would achieve nothing and will not be happening over my dead body.
He also feels sorry for her as she is lonely this Xmas (she isn't lonely, she is married to his dad, and sees sils dc regularly!)

Pumpkin, remind him of what she does to his dc, and remind him that none of the children will ever see her again because of it.

Ask him if he wants his girls growing up feeling as terrified of her as he does because that's how it works.

Daily texts? Bloody hell!

I found the weekly messages bad enough!

I had the police officer call me today to check up on us.

As it was I was at the football with DS, his first game (they lost :( )

But even if I wasn't, it was a withheld number on a weekend. Mother's favourite MO.

Sad that I wouldn't have even taken the call even if i'd seen it

It's going to take a while to feel 'OK' again isn't it?

Got back to a flaming gift from sister. Sent yesterday.

Surely she must know what happened, but still makes contact?

Mind you, i'd love to be a fly on the wall the day she actually told anyone the truth about what went on last week.

I'll send the present back to amazon like the other one. DS is fine with that.

oh Radiosilence your words about being scared and guilty of betrayal really resonated with me, hoping this means that this is now the time to know that you no longer have to hold others' secrets? Its such a huge burden.

The 'not a hugger' and no 'i love yous' - tick there too.

Also the neglect, i lay and moaned and vomitted in pain, sleepless for 48hours before she would call the doctor and then couldn't be bothered to go pick up the prescription.

all the pain and confusions and awfulness you feel now, passes. it will stop. In the meantime, try not to carry on giving yourself the hard time they used to give you. Its common to self-medicate for the pain you're feeling. ((hug)) x

I haven't been on here for a long time, but had a couple of things to report 'this year': I bumped into a friend from some years ago, to discover my ex pretend parents had moved away from the area, but I don't know where to. I received an xmas card from distant relatives and written on the envelope was a note to say they were surprised not to have seen me at the ex father's birthday - I wrote on the back of mine to them - I knew nothing of a party - which tells me the propaganda wheels are still in motion. Nice to know at Christmas!

Oh, and this is a name change

Is it just me? Does anyone else want to just shout, tell everyone that their mother's left them?

That she's let them down, hurt them, scared their child, neglected them in their darkest hours?

I crave the sympathy, but if/when it comes it feels almost empty.

Confused.

Yes.

I'm still angry about being let down in similar circumstances.

I think it's the fact that somehow i've fallen and I want someone to 'kiss it better'

But there's no one there anymore.

There never was anyone there.

no. all that passes. the wanting to shout out is all the pain coming out, and grieving. All I can recommend is taking comfort, every comfort you can for yourself. Holding pillows at night, cuddling teddies, curling up and feeling safe. It is you that you need the most sympathy from Hissy , until you really feel the care and sympathy inside you?

It did used to get me the worst when I was struggling with other things in my life. That used to make me angry, but then even non-toxic parents can't be there much, if at all, dependent on circumstances, but I do think its harder if they were toxic, as until we recover from them I do think its harder to cope with the more challenging upsets that life throws at us.

It sounds like you are making a really good start on that Hissy and I hope that can be a little comfort to start with xx

oh I x-posted with you Hissy

There is no need to rush to get up again, hold yourself tight, really tight. Its a very sad reality and hard to face, horrible horrible isn't it

Hold on to yourself Hissy it will pass, think of all the comforts you need x

Thanks ChristmasSprite :)

I guess it gets easier then, I just have to keep doing what i'm doing.

I do have to say though that atm, the hardest things in life so far have been pretty hard, and it looks like I did them all alone.

The hardest thing is spectating this car crash and watching them do it. I still struggle to believe what just happened, what happened before, and what always happened.

Why is it that I couldn't ever see it?

It was all there.

Is that why I fell for the BS of a DV relationship?

HarlotOTara - your story is so similar to mine. You have all the family you need, ones who love you unconditionally. Try not to let the xmas season sentimentality screw with your head. It is awkward explaining the lack of extended family, but you did the right thing, and you should stick by that. Stay strong x

Talking :) thanks you too!

When I emerged from the wreckage of the abusive relationship I knew only one thing; to hold onto the truth.

The truth really does set you free.

The trick is to find one single absolute truth and refer back to it, time and time again.

I visualised this as a tall post, hammered into the ground. The tidal wave higher than you could even imagine was bearing down, and the pole, the truth, was the only hope I had of survival.

The wave broke over me; the terrifying end of the relationship, but when the waters passed, I was still alive, the post was there, and the sun was shining, the storm, the waves had passed.

Thank all, na-night all!

it is indeed a moment when the scales fall from our eyes, and its all laid bare to be seen

.. and please don't blame yourself Hissy for any other DV you experience in your life, that is only ever the responsibility of the abuser. Rest well x

Cheers me dears!

It's not m$e blaming myself, but the grooming that was done to make me vulnerable.

The total lack of support/the joy of keeping me there was all theirs too.

I'm trying hard not to lay blame for the DV at their feet, it's a tough one.

I also worry that i'm guilty of bleating on about all this.