"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

<br />
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.<br />
<br />
This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)<br />
<br />
So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.<br />
<br />
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;<br />
<br />
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'<br />
<br />
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. <br />
<br />
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.<br />
<br />
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. <br />
<br />
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a><br />
<br />
I started with this book and found it really useful.<br />
<br />
Here are some excerpts:<br />
<br />
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.<br />
<br />
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.<br />
<br />
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:<br />
<br />
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".<br />
<br />
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".<br />
<br />
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."<br />
<br />
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"<br />
<br />
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."<br />
<br />
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."<br />
<br />
Helpful Websites<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a><br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a><br />
<br />
More helpful links:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a><br />
<br />
Some books:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Homecoming</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a><br />
<br />
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: <br />
<br />
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."<br />
<br />
Happy Posting

[pumpkinsweetie]

A lot of posts since last night, you can tell it's Christmas as these toxics tend to make our lifes a misery mainly when the festive weeks lie ahead!

Will read through shortly.

I'm really not happy this morning as dh has had another voicemail of mil which he did not mention until i asked whether they had contacted him yesterday. Only good thing is that he didn't listen to it!

Bad thing is, i have listened to it and unfortunetly i have had to tell him what is contained in it, as mil plans on turning up with xmas gifts!!!!!!

Her words were as follows in miserable monotone voice "Son we will be dropping the christmas gifts off, alright"
No mention of when, or whether this will be when i & dc are here and now i'm scared they will turn up and one of my elder dc will answer door or i will answer it not realising it is them!

I really don't want the gifts, neither do i want them turning up at my home. We are nc i don't want to see them and i'm very unsure how to handle this. I really do hope they don't turn up here when my dc are here or on christmas morning, they will ruin all our plans

[Meerka]

it's perhaps a bit extreme but could you literally not let them in and tell them to give the gifts to charity? Trouble is with people like this, it has to -get- extreme before they will stop trying.

Would it help to think of this in the long term? If you literally refuse the gifts in their face, then next year or the year after even they will not bother. Shorter term pain and distress for longerterm peace and freedom?

[Hissy]

Can I just say a massive thanks to everyone here and on the old thread for being there for me.

I'd like to say in many ways that Mumsnet has been my family in the last few years, but I'm a little concerned that the use of the other 'f' word may cause offence! :)

Suffice to say that I'm truly grateful to you all for listening and being the voices to support me and my sadly necessary decision to call the police.

'Normal' RL people have all concurred with you and even though I still feel uncomfortable having had to call the police, it was to protect a terrified little boy who is my whole world and to stop something that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

I will have therapy on the Monday, but that doesn't answer the questions I have, like WHY did she/they think that bulldozing me was acceptable? Why did they think confrontation was the way to go? Is this because THEY have a script and I'M not following it? SF said on a number of occasions in the time they were occupying my home 'Do as you are TOLD' he said it at least twice, when actually very little ELSE was said. Is that significant?

I have to come to terms with the fact that these questions can't be answered, I can't gain that ultimate closure as I can't understand what they chose to do. It doesn't make sense. Well not to me/normal people.

[Farrowandbawlbauls]

I'm sure they all read from the same script too.

The same words, the same guilt trips, the same "favours", the same silences when things don't go their way, the same messages left on machines, the same favortism shown to others, the lack of support, the jibes, the insults, the twisting of words, the denial of crap they refuse to admit to...it's all so bloody predictable.

I've been wobbling and thinking about calling my mother on Christmas day as it will be "the right thing to do" but I'm quickly reminded of the Obligation and Guilt part of FOG. Reading this thread being outraged at what others are going through and the sledgehammer hitting home that others experiences are all too familiar to when I've been through. It's hard.

Hissy I'm glad things have calmed down for you now. I'll echo what others have said about looking into a restraining order. How are you both now?

[Hissy]

pumpkin You will have to be brave, either just sit tight if they turn up, and don't answer the door, or open it and say 'We asked you not to come here/contact us, please leave' and close the door.

Tell your DC NOT to answer the door unless you say so.

You will have to do this as your H probably won't be able to. That's OK, he's terrified. He's getting there. With your help, love and understanding, he's almost there. But not quite.

If you could have seen my little 8 yo boy the other night, you would understand what your H feels like on the inside.

DS was shaking, visibly trembling, crying and almost yellow in appearance through fright.

Your H feels like that if he steps outside of what they want, your kids will feel like that if they are allowed space in your lives.

Roar Mumma Bear, Roar!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Pumpkin

What Hissy wrote.

Does your front door have a chain or a spyhole; if so you can use both of these to good effect here.

Do not let them in under any circumstances; they may well turn up next Wednesday and try to barge their way in throwing presents at you all the while.

[Meerka]

hissy, I do not know all the backstory. But if someone says to you when you are in your 40's (i think you said you were in your 40's, sorry if not!) "do as you are told" it is a very clear indication that they think you, as the child, as still theirs to direct and order and you must obey. They probably believe in the old fashioned 'children must obey their parents at all times' that past centuries believed.

It is an extremely authoritarian stance that is responsible for a lot of misery. It's pretty much, in this context, a statement that you still belong to them, much as wives and children belonged to their husbands.

I suspect that under the the more normal appearance that the police would have seen ( "we just want to talk to her! why is our own daughter calling the police on us! please, can't you help us? reason with her?") is this ownership streak that your SF in particular is more prone to showing overtly.

If I'm right, then they are working from an entirely different book on how people relate. Entirely differnt. Much as past centuries can be almost incomprehensible to us, such as the Roman view that a father had the right to execute his children until either adulthood or the day he died, I forget which, or the very different understanding of the world that some of the old norse sagas show. That different. It is alien to us, in the way that we find hard to comprehend when we're more used to discussion and seeing other people as independent, not part of a web of authority that everyone belongs to, like it or not.

So ... thats why they think they have the right. And like talking to someone with a genuine delusion, they will never be able to see any other pov.

I hope that makes sense and is understandable.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

People

I will not be on here tomorrow (am going on holiday) but I would like to send you all my best wishes for the coming week and the New Year.

I have never met any of you but I would be very proud to be associated with any of you in real life and call you a friend of mine.

May the angels protect you

A x

[Meerka]

You too, attila :)

[MillyMollyMandy78]

Happy Christmas Attila - have a lovely holiday!

[Hissy]

Without outing myself completely, though heaven knows there is enough identifiable stuff here already

They now live over 4 hours away from me and will hit 70yo next year. the Police DID tell them not to contact me, so I'm not expecting them to do so.

I don't feel atm that I need a restraining order. but having this on record would help me get one if I do need one.

My friend (DV charity head) said that she would get a marker put on my address to make sure that if I called again I'd get priority.

[Farrowandbawlbauls]

They drove for FOUR HOURS then abused you and your son in your own home? They didn't even have the decency to tell you they are coming to see you? They just turned up?

I'm bloody fuming for you Hissy. FUMING.

[Hissy]

Sorry, flaming work getting in the way of keeping up that and a bacon bap [fatbugger]

Attilla WHAT? Taking time OFF? Off from MN? Outrageous! I never saw the holiday form go in, who signed THAT off?

Have a super time whatever it is you are doing love, you are such a tower of strength to us here, and the voice of reason to so many others everywhere else on MN.

thanks for everything Atilla, you are a real Asset to MN.

wonder if we can have an 'Asset to Mumsnet' badge

[Hissy]

To be fair, they left a message on DS birthday, which I deleted the bejeezus out of didn't hear/listen to But yes, I believe they were waiting outside when I drove up.

As however it was 'blowing a bastard' as the awesomely funny thread on here goes, and I had to avoid a flying poubelle so didn't see them.

I went in the house and they knocked a matter of minutes behind me.

[Meery]

Attila Merry Christmas. Thank you so much for your words over the past year.

M

[incogKNEEto]

Attila thanks so much for all you've done to help us all on our journeys so far

I hope you have a lovely peaceful holiday and a happy new year too

[pumpkinsweetie]

Merry Christmas Atilla, hope you have a wonderful holiday
I don't have a spy hole or chain, but my door is painted glass patterns so sometimes i can jusr make out who is at the door if it's light outside so i will hopefully be able to forsee it's them.

I agree Hissy re my children not answering the door, i wish they wouldn't so will have words with them tonight about strangers/opening doors.

I plan on completely ignoring the door, should they come, but dc finish school today & i have blinds they look through, so will be very akward if dc see them especially as dd7yo is mercenary & would love to see mil

Opening the door & saying "no" will not register, infact i know i'll just get abuse and fil is a very tall, scary man.
Also dh won't have it in him to agree with me, or even keep away from the door if he knows they are outside.

If they turn up Wednesday there will be uproar as my dm is here and she would simply tell them to fuck off

[Farrowandbawlbauls]

If you are all worried about the kids opening the doors, why not lock them?

That way no-one can open the door without you being there - plus there's the added safety of not having sneek in burglers.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Good idea Farrow genuis!
I will lock with key & hang up key!

[Farrowandbawlbauls]

DONT hang the key anywhere near the door or the letter box, just keep it in your bag - that's all you need to do.

[Hissy]

fil is a very tall, scary man

Who can be as tall and scary as he likes on the OTHER SIDE of your front door, while you dial 999.

MummaBear - remember? grrrrrrrrrrr!

[pumpkinsweetie]

Yep Hissy mama bear rrrrrrrrooooarrrrr, very instinctive of my territory at the moment as i'm 38 weeks pregnant too! Can't trust where my hormones should land me if he gets near my door

[Hissy]

Let those hormones fly girl! :D

[HarlotOTara]

Hi,
Just after a bit of support really. I come from a family where I was abused, sexual, physical and of course emotional. After many, many years Of therapy I have finally been able to leave the abuse in the past. Eight years ago, after my therapist asking me why I kept hosting lovely Christmases for people who had hurt me so much, I decided to stop doing it. Over the past seven years contact with my parents has dwindled. Last year I went and visited them to say that they had hurt me dreadfully and wanted them to know that. It was a very liberating thing to do and something I never thought I would do.

However, I always feel guilt and sadness at this time of year, sad because I have no family (apart from lovely dh and dc), and guilt that I am not letting two elderly people visit and that they are sad and old and could die sometime soon. I think of guilt obligation and fear, I am a much happier person than I was but still I get caught up in something at Christmas. I think I need some other views before I contact and invite them to lunch after Christmas...

[spanky2]

Harlotohara you have badly behaved parents . Don't feel sorry for them. If they had been kind people then they wouldn't be alone . My parents are alone on Christmas day too. Guilt and fear are not reasons to invite people to your home . People are invited because we have fun and like spending time with them. You are doing nothing wrong .