"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

<br />
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.<br />
<br />
This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)<br />
<br />
So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.<br />
<br />
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;<br />
<br />
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'<br />
<br />
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. <br />
<br />
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.<br />
<br />
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. <br />
<br />
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a><br />
<br />
I started with this book and found it really useful.<br />
<br />
Here are some excerpts:<br />
<br />
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.<br />
<br />
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.<br />
<br />
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:<br />
<br />
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".<br />
<br />
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".<br />
<br />
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.<br />
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YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."<br />
<br />
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"<br />
<br />
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."<br />
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YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."<br />
<br />
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.<br />
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YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."<br />
<br />
Helpful Websites<br />
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<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a><br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a><br />
<br />
More helpful links:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a><br />
<br />
Some books:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Homecoming</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a><br />
<br />
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: <br />
<br />
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."<br />
<br />
Happy Posting

[incogKNEEto]

lights I only had about 10 sessions in total, but it took me about six before I was even able to talk about my mother, I had been so conditioned into not talking about her, and was so scared of opening up to then be told I was exaggerating or imagining it. I had a really good, patient counsellor and when I told her one of the less shocking stories about mother she was visibly moved and said that it was a terrible thing to have happen to you as a child, and this enabled me to open up to her a little more each time until I managed to tell her some of the worst things

I really could do with a few more sessions, especially after the post office incident but we just can't afford it at the moment.

[LightsPlease]

Incog did you go private? Do you speak to your partner about your childhood experiences. Im glad you found a good counsellor and was able to open up. I suppose its an ongoing process dealing with these types of relationships.

[incogKNEEto]

No, I managed to get referred through the NHS and my counsellor managed to wangle me a couple of extra sessions, as she felt I was making progress

I was originally referred for my recurrent depression and anxiety that I have suffered on and off since my teens (unsurprisingly, now I have realised how toxic my m is!) I just thought I was wired wrong!

I do talk to dh, but it's difficult as he has a toxic m too but is still deep in the fog and he is great in that he backs me up and supports me in my decision to be NC, and he also is my emotional rock now, after we had a very rocky year last year due to the situation with his m and poor communication. Luckily,wmanaged to get through that and with a lot of honest talking now work well as a team.

[spanky2]

Wobblebeans my mum tried (as soon as she realised it was serious ) to split me and dh up. Mainly me to divorce him even though we have dcs . When I stopped talking to them they started tomake up stories to get dh to dump me.

[spanky2]

lightsplease mine haven't apologised either . They know they've done nothing wrong . Is it all your fault ? It's my fault !

[MillyMollyMandy78]

Wow this board has been busy this afternoon, sad really that everyone seems to be finding things tough at the moment and thank you for validating my feelings of being thrown out like garbage. Attilla - that quote re cutting off the offending hand/ foot, i have heard that before but never thought about it really. Quite chilling actually and very good description of the narc's coldness.

Hissy - your comment 'I'm not prepared to discuss this' is one i need to file away. My brother is getting married in April and all the family will be there and part of me is expecting mum to have told some lie/ sob story to her sisters and will use that line if they try to interfere/ give me a piece of their mind.

I'm beginning to think i am not doing as well as i thought i was in NC. Up until the last couple of weeks i would have said that i had the odd moment but was much happier and confident now. I would also say i had completely come to terms with our relationship, had grieved for the mum i never had and moved on. But while i am much better off, it is not that simple. Lately i feel myself getting annoyed/ jealous of the silliest things eg talk about xmas plans, mushy xmas movies, women at work talking about how they are spoiling their (adult) daughters cos that's just what you do/ they love them so much, my SIL mentioning that MIL came over for coffee -after his first baby scan and today very pissed off after doing online training at work re child abuse. I was always fed/ clothed/ physical needs cared for and never sexually abused/ beaten. But was often the victim of lower level physical abuse and emotional abuse/ neglect. So many of the warning signs were evident in me, and my younger brother when he was young. I felt myself getting cross cos surely someone should have questioned things - doctor/ teacher/ aunties and uncles.

As an aside, question for those who have gone NC. When i first went NC, tbh part of me was just relieved to be shut of her. But at the same time i felt a bit like i was now cast adrift, without a lifebelt. They had never really been that lifebelt and i have been independent most of my life, never relying on them for support or help. But i still kind of felt like i was now living the rest of my life without that safety blanket and felt a sense of feeling vulnerable and alone, as well as the stronger feelings of peace and happiness. Kind of like i imagine it would feel to be orphaned. Not really sure how to explain it any better, but does anyone know what i mean?

[LightsPlease]

Incogkneeto is it easier because your dh knows where you are coming from as he's experienced it himself?

Spanky yes it is all my fault for being born ! How long have you been nc for?

[Meerka]

But at the same time i felt a bit like i was now cast adrift, without a lifebelt. They had never really been that lifebelt and i have been independent most of my life, never relying on them for support or help. But i still kind of felt like i was now living the rest of my life without that safety blanket and felt a sense of feeling vulnerable and alone

millymollymandy I know exactly what you mean. You put it perfectly. I know, absolutely, that should I be in need then no one in the role of parent would be there for me. Sink or swim on my own. It's a lonely place.

It's never fully gone; I feel that I've learned things that other people from normal families havent and it leaves deep marks. But other things have improved in my life and so it's not overwhelming now. It does get better, even if it never completely fades.

[Meerka]

no, Im sorry, my Mother in law would be there for me now (at 44). So there is one person in a parental role who'd help.

But never my own parents, not since mid-teens.

[MillyMollyMandy78]

Meera - yes my MIL and DH would be there for me if i need them, but i think it is more than that. I don't really have any friends (except mil), and after having a divorce years ago part of me feels that there is no one unconditional. I don't have unconditional love from anyone (does that even exist?) - my husband would presumably stop loving me if i cheated on him (not that i would), and if we ever split (not that i think we will, but hypothetically), my MILs unconditional love for him would mean that she would no longer be there for me.

[MummyBeerestCupOfCheerest]

Oh Milly

Don't presume those thoughts about your DH and MIL. I know, I've been guilty of them myself.

When there's genuine love, I don't think that ever goes away. And I'm really cynical about love.

[Meery]

And right on cue the phone call full of pathos from dm .
"oh you're not in. I guess you're out having fun. Maybe you could give me a call sometime to let me know when you'll let me visit."

We're not even nc.

[LEMoncehadacatcalledSANTA]

Can i join this thread please - i wasn't abused as a child but after posting lots about my mother on here lots of folk have suggested this thread to me and i have just found the link to it. I hope thats ok.

[Hissy]

Milly, this is the toughest time of year, expect your feelings to be heightened.

I've created a thread for Toxic Families pointing towards here too, because some may think Stately Homes is hard core. I just wanted people who struggle like us to have somewhere to go.

Milly, expect anger, it's ok, it's yours to express, please feel free to let it out a bit. Bit by bit. At your own pace.

I'm feeling a bit better. Back home with my boy, he's ok, had an unproductive day like I did, one more day and we can rest and just enjoy being together in peace.

[Meerka]

LEMonce anyone is welcome =)

I'm glad you're a bit better now hissy. I imagine it will take quite some time to really get over them being so awful and having to call the police.

[incogKNEEto]

I remember those calls meery I have to say they're one of the things I don't miss since going NC...

The whole woe is me, you're all out having fun and far too busy to fit me in, I'm so lonely....yada yada yada

Sorry, that wasn't really very helpful. I do also remember the racing heart, sweaty palms, guilt and fear, mixed with irritation feelings too. How do you deal with the calls? Do you try to justify being busy and not answering the phone or are you able to call back bright and breezy and ignore the guilt trip?

[incogKNEEto]

Hello LEM, everyone comes in not sure if they belong here or if their story is 'bad enough' but everyone is welcome and you'll never be told your feelings aren't valid, they are your feelings and you matter.

[spanky2]

Millymollymandy I feel that too. I am no-ones special person . Dh says I am his but I know that dcs are really .

[spanky2]

Meerka I have talked to dh about that . They were never my lifeboat as time was given grudgingly or with strings . But it is more obvious now as they have cut me out of their lives .

[spanky2]

lightsplease nc since beginning of August .

[LEMoncehadacatcalledSANTA]

Its funny, I have had issues with my mums behaviour for ages now - she is a typical cantankerous old woman and I could fill this thread with her antics. My DD1 calls her "nanna" after catherine tates 'nana' but its not so funny when you are on the receiving end or having to apologise to other people for her behaviour. I am now worried about xmas and trying to keep her happy - I have been starting to realise that she has always been like this. The run up to christmas was always stressful in our house, i remember once my dad reassuring me that it would be ok - "don't worry lem, she is always like this every year, she will be like this up until christmas morning then she'll be ok" and every year was the same.

[MummyBeerestCupOfCheerest]

LEM-I know what you mean. It's so hard to want a happy holiday and knowing it all rests on the mood and attitude of one person. Or more.

How old are your DC?

[Lamu]

Hissy How awful, hope you're both ok. you shouldn't have to put up with that in your own home.

I've just had a chance to read all of the last thread. What really surprises me is the patterns running through all the posts, it's like complete carbon copies of shitty behaviour, manipulation and control.

I'm currently getting silence from 'd'm for refusing to give her money towards a long haul flight to visit Db. Of course she loves me and only wants the best for me, us children and her DGC are the only family she has etc. Funny that I haven't heard from you in nearly 6 months and the first thing I get is you need £1000! Not that I have it at this time of year I've spent so much time bending over backwards accommodating her, I had to pay her just to come and see Dd 2.3 who she hadnt seen in 7 months, back in August then the following month she was off on a long haul holiday for a month. Then I get more shitty emails saying "I'm sorry that I can't support you daily" Arghhhh.

[Hissy]

lamu thanks! Feeling more normal now.

It is bizarre isn't it, how people that never met, different to each other, but the dysfunctional traits ring bells with one anotheR.

[Wobblebeans]

meery DP gets those phone calls from his nan as well. She never phones when it's just me at home as the only person in DPs family at actually bothers with me is his DM.
The first bit of the conversation is always the same, and it's always DP who has to phone his nan, she only phones him when she wants something. She always says that she never knows when to phone even though DP has told her when he'll be at home, and when the DC are in bed. Then he'll say that she has a mobile and she could phone him on the or text him, which she always replies that she doesn't like using it. Blah blah blah! It's the same every time.
He says he can't be bothered with it anymore and it really annoys him, but at the same time, he says she is family. I only see her when I have to, which isn't that often (thank god!).

hissy I hope you and your son are ok . I do wonder sometimes if they are all reading from the same script, it's all eerily similar.