"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I am planning on telling him tomorrow that i wont be watching the dog as he causes me too much stress. That should be enough.

Your word is ALWAY enough.

If challenged (expect it) then broken record "I've made up decision, I won't change it"

Agree with Atilla. Strike now, while you have the momentum and adrenaline. You'll work yourself up too much between now and then.

Have you tried Rescue Remedy?

Twitches that is truly, truly terrible. What a horrible nutter.

I know i should do it now but i am really struggling! Sounds pathetic, i know. It is only a few words i need to say!

I havent heard of rescue remedy. What is it?

Ive done it. He sounded all dissapointed, but i told him i cant be bothered dealing with pee and poop. He suggested i watch him round there, but then i told him i would have to cart all the kids around with youngest ds kicking off because he hates the dog so i said i cant be bothered with that stress either. Not when my sis can do it all.

He then said he will have to bring my things around tomorrow now. Which arent things im waiting for, or really want. I think that may have been his way of trying to get to me!

Here comes the feeling like shit

Well done for telling your Dad.

What things of yours is he going to bring around tomorrow?.

He and his wife do not deserve to have you in their lives. Remain unavailable to such people.

Some trousers that are too small for my mam. An alarm clock and some tea cakes.

Thats another thing i am. My home is used as an extension of theirs!

When i got this place. They were excited over the cupboard space. My biggest cupboard is now filled with a lot of their stuff that they will never use, throw away or sell!!

I dont need the trousers, or the alarm clock or the tea cakes!

Thank you attila. Its so hard, yet i can see how much easier my life would be without them in it so much

wontletmesignin - Can you give your father some of the items in your cupboard to take away?

I have tried in the past and he comes up with anything and everything.
His new one is "wont, will you put these on gumtree for me. Ill bring them round so you can take photos"

Nobody wants to buy them and im stuck with them. He tells me to try again or tells me he will get them later.
Or when i complain he says oh ill ask your sis if i can put them in hers.
I never hear anything of it again.

He says he might come for the suitcase to use for the weekend..or he might get the one from my sisters.

Wont - Tell him you sold them all for £5 on gumtree and bin them

Tell him that if they don't sell you'll be giving them away on freecycle/taking them to the dump. Then follow through with it. Your house is not a dumping ground!

Then i would have to give him that money for everything lol.
He wouldnt settle for 5 quid an item. Over the next week or so im going to have an imaginary clear out of my things. He is going to have to find new homes himself.

I was excited myself about the cupboard space as my last house had no storage.
Now i have minimum storage for my things, so seem to be no better.

It is all pointless shit. A humidifier, a suitcase, tools and stuff, diy trolley things that pull washing machines and things, books, camera bags, coats, clothes etc.

When i write it down. Gawd. How have i managed to allow all of that through my door!
It might not seem like mucj, but i have only been here 6 months! What will it be like in a years time

You are spring cleaning.

Write an inventory of crap his stuff and give him a copy.

You give him 2 weeks to reclaim the crap he's dumped on you, or you will bin it.

And do it.

So DP spoke to his mum the other night. She apologised for telling DPs nan, but she was asked about April, our lunch at the pub and was doing a head count so she could book the private room we had last time (both DPs nan, and his mum have dogs). She felt she had to say something.

I was surprised by his Nan's reaction tbh. She basically said that it's our life and we can do what we like. Odd, not like her at all.

Apparently now though, A wants to 'have a conversation with us'. Funny that, when DP tried to confront her with her actions before, she was only interested in justifying them

DPs mum also received a rather odd text from A. A has a friend at work whose sister died at about the same age as DPs mum is now, so it's made her realise that she wants to be more interested in her life. DP basically asked his mum when she had ever been interested before. She hasn't, beyond just superficial things, and trying to manipulate her point of view.

Part of me is intrigued by what A could possibly have to say to us in this 'conversation', and the other part just wants to say "when were you bothered before? Just fuck off!"

"Part of me is intrigued by what A could possibly have to say to us in this 'conversation', and the other part just wants to say "when were you bothered before? Just fuck off!"

I would listen to the part that says to her F off. Curiosity as well killed the cat.

Toxic people like your aunt always but always want the last word hence the text message. Believe me, if you involve yourself at all with your aunt you will come off far worse in any confrontation because these people are really masters of "come closer so I can hurt you again". Her enabler H (all such women need a willing enabler to help them) is just as bad. Like many weak men in such a dysfunctional family has acted as a bystander out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Best to disengage and ignore such messages; send all such communiques to junk.

the 'Conversation' from A is her trying to create mystique and draw you back in.

She can't BEAR the idea that anyone would cut her out of the communications triangle and she has to be in the know.

She will try increasingly daft and ludicrous tactics to get your attention.

Hold firm and tell her to fuck off ignore her

I thought that might be the answer. I'm not planning on contacting her at all, neither is DP. It's funny though, she wants to talk to us but she hasn't actually contacted us. She told DPs mum, who then told DP.

She told DPs mum that she doesn't know whether or not to text DP, that she doesn't know what to say, or if it's the right thing to do. pah! she wouldn't know the right thing if it came up and punched her in the face!

If she wants to talk to us so badly, why hasn't she contacted us at all

It's definitely a pattern with toxic people, my MIL always needs to include other people in the drama as well - I guess it makes it more dramatic or something.

Are these people really that desperate to create drama, just seems a bit pointless to me

It's also another form of manipulation and control, trying to recruit new "puppets" for their campaign. Just continue to act as though nothing's happened.

And yes they are desperate to create drama; such narcissistic people thrive on same. My MIL in particular loves to know all the ins and outs of everyone's else's life, they like to be wanted and needed. With regards to her own life and what is happening within it, she is a closed book!.

YYto her being a closed book! Apart from if she's lying bragging about how great her life is. All she ever put on her fb page was her DC had achieved anything, or gym stuff, nights out and the DC's first day at school, of course showing off branded school bags, thankfully I don't have to look at that shit stuff anymore

Onwards and upwards

My heart rate is through the roof again. We've had a storm the like I've never seen before, a 24 hour power cut, and a two hour drive it to the hospital for embryo transfer (two on board, cross fingers) and back. The car was all over the road, we were dodging fallen trees and a double decker bus blown off the road FFS! The mobile was going off in the car - it was her. She just wanted to talk about the weather (drama, you see). The power finally went on this evening and a message beeps through on the landline. It's her in this horrible snarky, woe-is-me PA voice: "it's me checking you're alright. Bye." It's as though she's saying "You may be horrible and ignoring your mother, but I'm still nice and kind enough for others to be enquiring after their safety."

Fuck her. She's getting that email tomorrow.