"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Keep away from her :-)

It reminds me of how my 'mother' was after both of my children were born. :-(

Sorry to hear it went badly [flowers & hugs]

Hi all

posting here after posting on aibu.

Brief back story

DH with sever short term memory loss, my sister incredibly intrusive ( to say te least) in his medical care. Evil sister Esis

Dh now living away, applied for divorce 10 months ago, nothing happened yet. His sister also controlling / blocking his access to the dc.

My sister closest in age to me has been quite distant through all this does "not want to get involved". But is close to Esis.

After a few attempts to have a meet up. She was generally "too busy" could well be true but given my circumstances I hoped for more support.

Arranged to meet up with sis on Feb 20th for lunch, chat etc.

This last Sat there was a big family get together. Sis was at event from 3pm onwards I arrived at 4:30pm ( as asked, , small house 2 sets of guests as it were)

Sis went out in her car, I casually asked where she had been. She told me that she had visited Esis house but esis was "elsewhere" all very vague / odd. No mention if Esis had been at party.

I wanted to know if Esis had been at the party so texted as follows.

Me :

Hi sis, was esis at the party before I arrived ? Dizzy

....................................................

Sis :

Hi dizzy , as I said to you at the party esis did not come at all. Makes me uncomfortable that you ask me again. I will give our meet up a miss. Take care.

Me:

You didn't say she hadn't come to the party just that se wasn't at her house in a very "vague" way.

No one in the family tells me anything.

I feel soooo cut off.

Esis knows more about my dh that I do.

I feel lost, alone, irrelevant.

im in the middle of the main square now typing this in tears.

im just lost.

......................................................................

I received no reply.

A couple of hours later I sent

Me :

I didn't mean to be rude to you I really didn't.

Id of like to see you but as you have said to me you "don't want to get involved" so I understand why you don't want to meet up.

I feel so,so alone

I will do my best to "take care" but right now I don't even know how.

I wouldn't wish what has happened to me on my worst enemy.

I miss my life.
I have friends I can meet up with but just for a little while I needed, really needed a sister.

I wont trouble you again.

If you do ask me how things are I shall say "fine".

Dizzy#

.............................................

I have sobbed all day, I just needed some support.

In all the time my dh has been away ( nearly 2 years) not one member of my family has rung to ask if I am ok, not one sad

I must be as vile as esis and sil tell my dh I am

I haven't read the book birdmomma but I understand where you're coming from. There are things that happened in my childhood that I have never felt angry about, and don't know if I ever will. You hear all the time about how you're "meant" to feel, that's just pop-psychology imo. I kind of think, it might have been appropriate to have felt anger then, but that doesn't mean it is now. I've no intention to confront anyone about things that happened before, sometimes I think it's just healthier to move on and appreciate the good you have now rather than dwelling on the past and getting yourself at it.

Sorry to hear about that nasty text Hester, they really do seem to strike when the timing is at its worst don't they? I hope your IVF egg retrieval went ok. As others have said, ignore her, or if you're feeling up to it then block her number as Attila suggested.

God I am reeling right now. Got back from a night shift. Husband contacted MIL on Monday, he was feeling bad about things and had decided to apologise. Cue MIL launching another attack on FIL's gf, cue DH getting angry, another fight descending, naturally - what else would happen after DH apologised?
That's not what has me reeling though. Through all of this I have not said anything to them, I have not gotten involved, I've been there to support DH but have not stoked the fires in any way shape or form. That doesn't stop SIL1 from telling DH how pathetic we are though. I am so disgusted, I'm so angry and upset - without my even being involved I'll still be attacked, blamed and put down. I'm sick of it. I've told DH how I feel, that I actually hate them, that I think they're vile and horrible people, that in actual fact I really don't want anything to do with them again, that I hate being picked on and put down "just because". I don't want them to see my children, I want them to have anything to do with them because actually all I can see is that they're a minus - they have nothing to add, they just bring fights and misery and I don't want them to poison or ruin my children! I've never said these things before, I've always tried to be even tempered and keep quiet no matter how I feel, but enough is enough. I can't go on like this any more. How on earth am I supposed to stay in a family that only causes me misery? I even wonder whether it would be better if I wasn't with DH, I am starting to hate them that much. I know when it all comes down to it DH will want to stay in contact. I asked him before what he was hoping for and he told me an "amicable truce". I don't want to stay in contact with them. I don't want to be the woman who forces her husband not to see his family either. A long time ago, when MIL was trying to get DH to dump me right when my father was dying (and after he died, lovely woman that she is!) I asked myself whether I could stay with him. I asked whether I could really be with a man who had that for a mother, but I decided to stay because I loved him that much, even in spite of her, and could never leave him. We didn't even have kids back then.
We have this sort of hazy, faraway wish that someday we might move to Germany. It feels like a pipe dream that will never happen, but sometimes it also feels like my only hope.
I'm so unhappy.

A rattling experience. :(

Perhaps now dh can see that there's no point in contact with them, and that he's best to disengage and get on with life without them.

He gets to choose who he allows access to what, but he has to understand that you too can state that you'll not allow toxic people in your lives no matter who they are.

Therein lies the 'taboo' but it's not law. You have a right to make choices.

So i come to my parents house today as my mam could use the company, my dad says.
I walk in and sit down and then asked if i would watch the dog tonight so they could go to bingo.
I tell them no as my kids will be in bed and he rUns up and down the stairs. Turns out, both of my other sisters could watch him and one has offered to already. Wtf!

My older sisters have older children. The sis who offered has no pets either. I have 3 cats and 4 kids.

I dont understand. It is even easier for my other sis as she lives close to the bingo.
Why ask me when they know itnwould cause me stress?

They have also asked me for 8.45am til tea time on saturday.
I told them from 11am as theyve guilted me by saying my mam wouldnt get out otherwise.

Ifnit wasnt for my sister having him over night on saturday, i wouldnt. But i feel i am helping sis out, rather than parents.
I am sick of this dog

let your sister watch the dog. not your problem. disengage.

wontletmesignin

You are going to have to come to the painful realisation real quick now that these people aka your parents are not going to change. They have assigned to you the role of scapegoat within your birth family and you'll need to realise that you will have to completely engage and opt out of having any contact with them.

These people are not going to change. You do not have to seek their approval any more, approval they would never freely give anyway. You are also deeply in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) with regards to them too.

They asked you initially because they know you are both soft and a soft touch; they have trained you well to respond to them as and when you are required.

Let your sister watch the dog.

If you do not fully disengage yourself from your now appointed role to them of dog sitter, they will have you running around after the dog for the rest of its days.

Hissy - i see your point. But i find it so difficult.
I guess that is where attila's point comes in.

I am in the fog about it all. It was extremely hard for me to tell my dad i would watch him from 11am onwards, rather than 8.45am. I really wanted to say "im not watching him"...only when it comes to the crunchm i cant say it!!

Now i feel bad that if i change my mind ...again. i will appear like such a shit.

The most annoying thing about it all is when i had a dog, they kept saying to me "you never should have got one. They are too tying". I didnt plan days away, nor did i feel i couldnt leave my dog home alone while i done shopping.

It is also very hard coming to terms with the fact that i am possibly the scapegoat, and of no use otherwise.

Hissy - I'm laughing at the emotional stiffy lol . Seriously though How can anyone get a stiffy over someones unhappiness . It's sadistic.

Hester - the main thing is you went, well done for going!

Dizzycatdance. - I don't really understand what is going on from your message. I got that your sister isn't being supportive. Don't let this get you down. You deserve much better.

I have drafted an email to my mother. I am trying to summon the courage to send it. The gist of it is don't bother contacting me until you are nicer. I have no expectation she will get nicer, by the way.

Well I just posted off a card for my dad's birthday tomorrow. This is the same dad that I wanted to phone up on Sunday and ask 'why the fuck are you spreading shit about me' and the same dad who doesn't really give a damn about anyone but himself. Had a couple of lovely photos of him with my son when he was a baby lying around so I enclosed these with the card. He may as well have them as looking at them makes me a little sad! It might make him realise he's a grandfather & that he should be proud of that and make an effort to see and be nice to his grandson...

What's that? I'm wasting my time and it won't change a thing? Ah. Thought not! :-)

^So i come to my parents house today as my mam could use the company, my dad says.
I walk in and sit down and then asked if i would watch the dog tonight so they could go to bingo.^

well then, they lied to get you there. They didn't even have the respect for you to ask you upfront and THEN they guilt-tripped you into taking the role on saturday.

Why ask me when they know it would cause me stress? precisely to cause you stress, they like doing it. Please see my 'Emotional Stiffy Theory

they've guilted me by saying my mam wouldn't get out otherwise - well then that's her decision. not like it's important or anything, they could take the dog, or one could stay behind.

If it wasnt for my sister having him over night on saturday, i wouldnt. But i feel i am helping sis out, rather than parents. I am sick of this dog

You are not helping you are enabling Stop it.

Just say your kids are busy that day and you are out with them, or with friends or have an appointment. use one excuse and stick to it. If they question it stick to the story, but if they complain remind them that it's their dog/whatever and that YOU don't WANT to be the default carer for everything they can't be bothered to be responsible for. You have enough to deal with already.

Expect tantrums, but just shrug. 'That's your choice to behave like this, my choice not to put up with it'

I even wrote:

From GreenRed

& your grandchildren X and Y.

It's futile. He's just a fucking asshole and he doesn't care haha!!!!

At least this journey towards acceptance is meaning that I can soon stop being a needy child and start taking responsibility for my life.

Green let that be the last communication you have with him then, use it as your swansong. he can't be nice about you, so fuck him.

Don't answer calls, text etc, just let it go.

if they complain remind them that it's their dog/whatever and that YOU don't WANT to be the default carer for everything they can't be bothered to be responsible for. Yes, that exactly!

Perhaps when you have had no suitable response green then you will be able to start the detanglement process.

Hester Well done, you don't have to send that, not until you are ready. sometimes expressing yourself is enough.

I'm so relieved to find this thread! I'm really sorry that other people have had to put up with this kind of b.s. from people who are supposed to be their parents, but also kind of glad - for once I feel in good company:

My father fits the descriptions of a toxic parent/hooverer perfectly: he lives his own reality.

I've just had to inform the security manager in my office building that, despite my telling him repeatedly I never want to see or hear from him again, there's a high chance my father will turn up (unnanounced) to try and see me and cause a scene/have an actual tantrum when I refuse. He's had to be removed by security staff before, when I was in my teens.

When I was 11: he threatened me over the phone, saying he would have me and the rest of my family "run over" so that at least one of us would be "feeding through a tube".... He then rang me back 5 minutes later to explain that he hadn't meant it, he was angry. He was actually going to have only my mother run over and killed....

I'm old enough now to look back at this and simultaneously think: how hilarious/how tragic/ that is. And how awesome I must be for surviving a father like mine...

I keep reading what you wrote hissy. Over and over. I am planning on telling him tomorrow that i wont be watching the dog as he causes me too much stress. That should be enough.
The thought of it is creating panic. Which proves that this whole situation isnt right at all.

So im going to prepare myself to do it tomorrow. Whatever complications it throws their way is their problem. Not mine.
im saying this now. Wont be tomorrow i bet
I dont want a dog. Especially a one that pisses and shits all around my house. They know this, yet keep giving him to me!! Yet used to complain that i was terrible when one of my cats wasnt litter trained properly, as it was unsafe for thr kids. I should have rehomed rather than work at it!

OMG Twitches2, what a head fuck! Well done for taking measures to remove him from your life, he doesn't deserve to be in it if he's going to treat you like that!

Why not do it today re telling him that you are no longer available to be their unpaid servant/dog sitter. Doing it tomorrow puts it off until then.