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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Thoughts needed on this comment, please, sensitive issue.

246 replies

shipherlady · 03/12/2013 09:50

Please do not read on if you're sensitive to comments regarding rape, I do not wish to upset anybody, just need impartial advice.

Anyway, dh and I having discussion about women's roles, basically, he held the view that if a 'woman does not pull her weight' financially, men have the right to rape them and do what they want in the bedroom. We were having a massive argument at the time, and he is at pains to say that this is what happened in the past ( I question this) and he has no desire to do this at all, but that is 'how it was' in the past when men earned all the money.
OK, now logically, I should be OK with his 'impartial' assessment of the past -even though I disagree with it-however, it's made me feel uncomfortable.
What do you think?

OP posts:
Contrarian78 · 04/12/2013 15:33

The point I was making (and becoming increasingly tired of doing so) is that any discussion about rape is likely to be so charged that even the most reasonable of men is very likely to say something which jars. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened here, but the op did say (I think) that she never felt threatened. I just think that many were ready to decry her husband a rapist based on nothing more than an argument/discussion.

Mist Don't be so ridiculous.

Contrarian78 · 04/12/2013 15:38

jengnr Your response - and much of this thread - really makes the point.

The fact is. let's not judge a man (or woman) on what the say, but rather on what they do. If the op believes her husband to be a rapist, then she should leave. If not..........

SolidGoldBrass's post (although useful in that it contains specifics) seems to be jumping the gun a bit.

aujordoui · 04/12/2013 15:42

solidgoldbrass - really? You've summed all that up on the OP?

Jengnr · 04/12/2013 15:46

Don't talk bollocks, you mansplaining fuckwit.

aujordoui · 04/12/2013 15:48

What's a mansplaining fuckwit?

Jengnr · 04/12/2013 15:50

Mansplain; to delight in condescending, inaccurate explanations delivered with rock solid confidence of rightness and that slimy certainty that of course he is right, because he is the man in this conversation
Even though he knew she had an advanced degree in neuroscience, he felt the need to mansplain "there are molecules in the brain called neurotransmitters"

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 15:52

Contrarian, did you miss the part where OP's husband's behaviour had made her feel "he was building up to something" before she even came to MN for some support with her disquiet ?

Do you think women really develop imaginary fears about their husbands on the strength of one comment ?

Do you have any understanding at all about why women may be less than comfortable about the way society still promotes blurred lines around the subject of sexual assault ?

Contrarian78 · 04/12/2013 15:54

There you go again.

aujordoui · 04/12/2013 15:54

Thank you for the explanation of Mansplain. Does it have a female counterpart? ie Womansplain? Condescension is, after all, not just a male domain. I've seen plenty of it here from women. Just saying.

Original poster
shipherlady · 04/12/2013 15:55

Regarding the law, it's a fact that it was legal for a man to rape his wife until 1991. I agree that legally it was fine, not morally, though, of course, it's wrong.

But that's not really the point here, is it?

I've never felt sexually threatened before. I have, however, had him throw things in temper countless times and been sworn at and called horrible names.

This is the truth of it.

OP posts:
MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 15:55

The thing is, contrarian, although you have been at great pains since to mitigate your awful sexual coercion of your wife, it kinda follows you around like a bad smell and wafts through every post you make.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 15:56

Sorry, ship. No big surprises there Sad

Contrarian78 · 04/12/2013 15:58

Mist Building up to something is one thing. Being in real and genuine fear of being raped/sexually assualted........ I didn't quite get that.

I'm not convinced that society does still promote blurred lines around the subject of sexual assault. Not really. I do stand to be corrected though.

aujordoui · 04/12/2013 16:00

So his abusive behaviour has taken a different turn Ship, escalated? Maybe you should consider leaving and ask yourself why you put up with his destructive behaviour before?

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 16:00

Is thinking that your husband is "building up to something" as a consequence of previous behaviour, topped by a clear verbal threat of what he "could" do if he so chose not anything to get worked up about then ?

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 16:02

Is it her fault then, aujordoui, for staying and allowing him to escalate ?

Contrarian78 · 04/12/2013 16:02

I haven't been at any pains. I acknowledged - in that instance - that I was in the wrong. I apologised to my wife and, as she'd testify if she were here, have been a very much improved man since.

The thing is, I come under personal attack becasue I don't always follow the party line. I just try and give a more balanced view (as do some others on here).

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 16:04

Cont, is it ok how he spoke to her, and what he said ? Why don't you answer the question ? Why do you feel you need to add "balance" to a situation that is clearly not acceptable to OP ?

aujordoui · 04/12/2013 16:05

I don't believe I said that Mist. I do know how demeaning it can be to have someone chip at your confidence and how you can make excuses and put up with stuff. Which is why I asked why she'd done the same. I guess I'm also asking, if she feels even more threatened, why she's on a board asking for others' input, when deep down, maybe she already knows she should leave.

Original poster
shipherlady · 04/12/2013 16:09

I think I have done the same, aujourdoui, I don't honestly know if he could actually sexually attack me. But then I didn't think he'd do half of what he has done: texting other women, chucking things when he can't get his own way, the verbal putdowns.

I'm still coming to terms with it. My confidence is on the floor.

OP posts:
MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 16:10

Then why didn't you put it like that, auj, instead of baldly asking why she should question herself about his behaviour ?. That is classic for putting responsibility for male bad behaviour onto women. It's not on.

Contrarian78 · 04/12/2013 16:15

No, I'm not defending how he spoke to her, I couldn't, becasue I wasn't there. We have to take all contributors/posters at face value, and whilst I have no desire/inclination to doubt what the op has said, I do know that in this sort of instance - where she hasn't returned home to find him interferring with the neighbour/pets/kids - there's more to it than would warrant a LTB/He's a rapist! There just is. That's not to say that I doubt that the op is being truthul,but rather recognising that real life isn't always as straighforward. And that nobody could impart on a post of a few hundred words the necessary backstory in order to enable others to offer a sensible opinion/judgement.

aujordoui · 04/12/2013 16:15

You really ought to stop putting words in to my mouth Mist, I didn't say that either. I asked why she'd put up with his destructive behaviour before.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 04/12/2013 16:16

So, that's a fairly roundabout way of saying you would rather make her doubt herself than accept she has a point ?

Vivacia · 04/12/2013 16:16

The point I was making (and becoming increasingly tired of doing so) is that any discussion about rape is likely to be so charged that even the most reasonable of men is very likely to say something which jars

Do you think that the fact you are having difficulty explaining your point is down to you rather than the people questioning it? Do you really believe that men are not capable of discussing rape without saying something inappropriate? It's not my experience.