Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Need a bit of advice about sexual assault.

129 replies

Salemthecat · 02/12/2013 20:47

I've nc'd for this as I'm really wary about anyone I know finding out.

I ended up in a situation a few months ago which has been bothering me every since and recently it's been getting worse. I was on a date with guy A. We had a bit to drink and went to the local nightclub where we met his friends and then drank a lot more. We met guy B, who I had never met before, in the club and went back to his after the club closed. All I can remember about this is patting a dog and being in a conservatory. The next thing I remember is waking up in guy B's bed completely naked with him shouting at me that he didn't know I was seeing his friend and that I was a tart. He then gave my clothes and drove me home. I have no idea where this house is, I can only remember getting to my house at about 9/10 am.

I had bruising to the inside of my thighs and that moist feeling when you have sex but I have absolutely no memory of having sex with this guy. I don't even know him. I've never had a one night stand with a stranger in my life. I really liked guy A but I have no idea where he went or what happened.

I work in the legal environment, sometimes helping to prepare sexual assault cases but I just can't relate what happened to me to them. This is all my fault for being so drunk. I have no idea if I consented or not. I can't imagine why I would have as I really liked guy A. But I actually have no idea. I could have instigated it for all I know.

Since then my self esteem has dramatically lowered, I've been starving myself and then binge eating. I've been binge drinking. I have a voice telling me over and over again that I deserve this for being such a filthy little slut. That he must have known I was such a whore and that's why it happened. That I'm worth absolutely nothing and no one is ever going to love me. I've also started self harming which is something I haven't done in 10 years since I was 14.

I've been to the doctors and told him that I've been feeling down and low and he's diagnosed me as having depression and put me on citalopram. I couldn't tell him about this situation or about the self harm. I'm so ashamed of myself for letting it happen, from where I work I should know so much better. I'm so stupid.

I don't know what I'm expecting here, I just had to tell someone to try and get it out my head. I'm sorry it's so long.

OP posts:
GimmeDaBoobehz · 10/12/2013 20:33

I'm so sorry you are going through this Salem (love the name, by the way we must be similarish ages). I have had several acts of what would be described as sexual assault or rape or something happen to me. Generally from a partner at the time, but also from guys I have known. One guy assaulted me and as the school was small rumours spread and others tried it. It's only been recently I have lost that name for myself and that was 10 years ago :(

I honestly felt like a whore. Like I hated myself and was only useful to be slept with and used. I really, really didn't like myself. I felt filthy and have had self esteem issues as long as I can remember anyway.

I have now had training in rape crisis in my area, though no longer do it because I have a small baby but it really opens your eyes on the tactics these vile men (and women, sometimes) use to make you hate yourself.

I still hate to think of myself as a victim. On bad days I still catch myself wondering if I deserved it and I think that will never completely go away.

All I can say is that if you were not sober and can't remember any events, you were incapable of giving consent, even if you overtly said you wanted sex at the time. I'd also say the way he treated you afterwards was a way of diverting the attention of what he had actually done. No half decent man would call a woman that even if he thought she was with someone else, he'd just say he never wanted to go there again because it wasn't right and this isn't what he said.

IRT your ex I had a similar experience. I was drinking and was the only girl in the group (I guess my reputation had led me to act in inappropriate ways) and had gone to bed, after hitting my head and not really remembering much else. I don't remember getting into bed but I remember my friend touching me inbetween my legs. I said no, but he just made shushing noises. I honestly felt filthy the next day. Some other things I did do consensually that night/early morning and felt it was OK although it wasn't with the same person. I still vaguely know him as have messaged him happy birthday on Facebook and the like, but have never met him again after that and never will, as I just can't forgive him.

A big thing is forgiving yourself. If you forgive yourself, you can start to move on. What could you have changed?
Not drunk so much? Yes, but you weren't to know you were going to be put in this situation; nobody has that kind of foresight.
Not left Guy A? You clearly had drunk too much to know you had left guy A. Besides, Guy A was hardly keeping an eye on his drunk date either, was he?
Said NO! You might well have done, but he obviously didn't listen. You'll never know and the guy wouldn't tell the truth even if you had said no. Besides even if you said yes, how on earth could he have gained consent?

There is no scenario in which you could have done more. If you are unable to have changed an outcome how on earth can it be your fault? The fault always lies with the guilty party.

I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I am a stranger but feel free to PM me if you ever want to talk as I really do sympathise with how you are feeling.

Sorry that this post was uber long and probably pretty boring and sounding very self centred, I wanted to give examples so you could see what I meant.

Thinking of you
Thanks

Salemthecat · 10/12/2013 21:58

Gimme, thanks for your reply, it's not self centred at all. Your second paragraph describes exactly how I feel. I just feel like I'm worth absolutely nothing.

I'm dreading speaking to the doctor tomorrow. I've wrote out what I want to say but I don't know how I'll be able to say it. I just feel so out of control of my own emotions, my own body, my own life.

OP posts:
Mabelface · 10/12/2013 22:04

You can just hand the note to your doctor, you don't have to say it yourself.

Cutitup · 10/12/2013 22:11

The most important thing to remember, Salem, is that what happened was not your fault.

Thinking of you. Best wishes to you. And big hugs.

tinmug · 10/12/2013 22:21

So,so sorry for what you're going through, Salem. This thread is very triggery for me (so sorry if I'm repeating what everyone else is saying, because I just can't read the whole thing) because something reasonably similar happened to me a while back now - May 2000. The next day he said something to me that I'll never, ever forget and which I have never, and will never, repeat; but it was along the lines of "you are promiscuous" (only in a far, far more hideous, utterly shaming,devastating way). I wasn't, but that's absolutely not the point: what he was saying was "it's your fault." He was saying, "you are universal property." He was saying "you have acted on your sexual impulses in the past, therefore you are fair game."

What I'm saying is, the guy you encountered and the guy I encountered have the same mindset. They simply hate women. It's not us. It's them.

Best of luck to you, and if you want to PM me, please do.

Salemthecat · 11/12/2013 09:50

Thank you for sharing your experience tin, I'm sorry if my post triggered you. I don't feel quite so alone after reading everyone's responses and knowing that it's happened to other people in a similar circumstance. I'm sorry for anyone that's had to go through this, it's truly awful.

The doctor is going to phone between 11 and 12. I'm really anxious about it but I'm trying to just focus on work and try and get through the day. I never thought I'd feel like this, I had no idea I could feel this bad.

OP posts:
WowserBowser · 11/12/2013 10:35

I'm so sorry this has all happened to you OP. And to all the other women on the thread. It's heartbreaking.
I was raped 5 years ago by a stranger down an alleyway. Luckily he beat me so badly that the jury didn't believe it was consensual. I don't think i would have had the nerve to report it otherwise. I was even saying in the ambulance that it wasn't rape and that i knew him. The police were automatically involved and my parents told.

Keeping it all to yourself must be so hard. I would never have wanted my parents to find out but thank god they did. They really stepped up to the plate and were amazing support.

A woman from RASAC was appointed to me and was AMAZING!! I wish i could tell her how much difference she made to me. She made me believe it wasn't my fault. I was wearing a short dress, talked to the guy and was very very drunk. All the cliches.

I knew it was him that was in the wrong but i worried what everyone else would think and whether i was to blame really. Especially as it was all over the papers stating a time line of my night - how much i had drank -how i had kissed some men that night, my friends and it was just silly but obviously didn't read like that.

Anyway, he got 10 years.

I just want you to know that this doesn't have to destroy you. I thought i would never be happy again. But I've got married and had a lovely Ds since then. I don't even think about it every day. He's out next year and that'll be hard but i have a really good support network so hopefully I'll get through it unscathed!

Anyhow, sorry to waffle on. Just wanted to tell you you're not alone. Be kind to yourself. You did nothing wrong, and i believe you xx

Salemthecat · 11/12/2013 11:06

Wowser, thanks for sharing your story. You are amazing and so brave. I can't imagine being strong enough to go to the police or to give evidence.

It's good to hear that it's possible to get past this and to move on and have a happy life after it. It seems like an unclimbable mountain at the moment but it's good to know that it is possible.

OP posts:
WowserBowser · 11/12/2013 11:31

Oh god yes! I felt exactly the same. I thought the most i could hope for was some sense of normality. It's not easy, it's fucking ridiculously hard, but you can get there.

I used to sit chain smoking in my parents kitchen. I didn't leave the house. I was very under weight. Now, people who don't know would never guess.

Take one day at a time and know we are here for you xx

Salemthecat · 11/12/2013 12:52

So I spoke to the doctor, she was very nice however I got the impression she was thinking "what do you expect me to do". She's offered to see me on Monday if the anxiety hasn't stopped by then and she suggested I contact rape crisis again. I sort of wish I hadn't bothered now. It was so difficult telling her and I don't really feel I've benefited.

I couldn't stop shaking when I was talking to her. I ended up crying. I hate crying in work but I don't think anyone saw me.

I'm not really sure what to do now. I have an initial appointment with the uni counsellor next week but they did warn there was a waiting list and I probably wouldn't get regular sessions for a while.

OP posts:
fifi669 · 11/12/2013 13:03

Sorry I've skipped to the end of the thread.

If no one has mentioned it earlier, you should really talk to someone about the self harming. I did it for about 6 years on and off and have the scars to prove it! It helped speaking to a behaviour specialist.

Best of luck to you x

WowserBowser · 11/12/2013 13:33

I'm sure she didn't think that. And if she did then that's really wrong as it is her job to help you.

You're doing really well by the way. Sometimes asking for help isn't easy but it is for the best.

Could you try calling rape crisis again? Do you feel up to it?

perfectstorm · 11/12/2013 13:47

What I'm saying is, the guy you encountered and the guy I encountered have the same mindset. They simply hate women. It's not us. It's them.

Yes, yes and a thousand times yes to that.

You know, every time you blame yourself or think it's about you, you're buying into a culture that tells women we should all be engaging in some kind of sick contest to be the least likely victim - in effect, to make sure the rapist picks some other girl, and not us. How twisted a message is that, to make women feel that some women somewhere will be raped but as long as we're good girls and behave it won't be us, and so the rapist isn't as much to blame as the survivors of their freely-chosen criminal acts?

It's pretty common knowledge that India has a big problem with sexual violence - from what's known as "Eve-teasing", ie groping women in the street and on public transport, to the sorts of horrific stories that have recently made international headlines. Yet culturally, Indian women on the whole only sleep with their husbands, and most will only have one sexual partner in a lifetime (a large, large majority of those who don't have married more than once). There isn't the same club culture and women drink far less, and there is generally a lot more surveillance and oversight. Yet it doesn't protect them one iota - because rape is not about what women do or don't do. It's about the choice of some men to commit an especially nasty violent crime.

The only thing that works in cutting reported rates of sexual attack (by 10%, in 6 months) is public education campaigns aimed at men. Campaigns focused on consent. Because victims of these crimes aren't the ones making choices - by flipping definition, they aren't even being asked. Yet they're the ones who question themselves - it's so, so wrong. It's like the ultimate insult that you can be the victim of a really nasty crime, and then question yourself as to whether that crime is as bad because you were vulnerable (drunk, asleep, walking alone late at night...) when in any other context a more vulnerable victim (a child, someone elderly, someone disabled or in a coma) just makes the crime more serious and the criminal seen as worse.

It wasn't your fault, but more than that, it wasn't anything to do with you. It was something horrible a fucked up arsehole chose to do, and you just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time in a vulnerable situation. And it fucking breaks my heart that women with absolutely nothing wrong with them at all are made to feel this way because people with a huge, gaping lot wrong with them chose to attack. This isn't who you are. It isn't you. They chose to do this. It's about them. And sadly, stats show that men who do this normally do it to numerous women. It really, really is not about the survivors of their crimes.

I'm sorry the doctor was less than helpful, and I agree you really could get better help by going back to Rape Crisis. You sound, for what it's worth, incredibly strong and it's so good you're asking for the support you very, very much deserve. I am so bloody sorry this happened to you, and I wish there were some way to lift you over this grieving, recovery and healing process and safely to the other side. All I can say is that as someone who suffered less than you have, but at the hands of a relative when I was a child, there really can be a complete and full recovery and you can be every scrap as happy as you hope and deserve. Again: this is not who you are. It's just something shitty an arsehole chose to do to you. It will hurt and take time to get past - but the person who is worthless and scummy isn't the person targeted. It's the person who chose to do it.

WowserBowser · 11/12/2013 15:03

Excellent post perfectstorm

Twinklestein · 11/12/2013 15:37

I'm sure she didn't think that all OP.

Personally, I would take the appointment on Monday, because if I understand it, you told the doctor who originally prescribed Citalopram that you were 'down' and 'low' but not that you had been raped.

This is important because if you are feeling low and extremely anxious, and have recently experienced a traumatic incident, this is all relevant to judging what dose would be relevant and also what drug. I would mention the self harm too.

Although Citalopram may be used to treat anxiety, some people report increased anxiety and agitation as a side effect and it may not suit you.
It's important to establish if the anxiety is being exacerbated by the drugs themselves.

I want to make clear that I am not either a doctor or psychiatrist, and I feel it is important that you do see a doctor to discuss this.

If you feel the doctor is not giving you the support you need, then I would definitely get back in touch with Rape Crisis or the Sandyford Centre. All the people at both organisations are trained to deal with sex crime victims, so they will be able to give you specialist support, as I have already said. They can both organise counselling with specialist counsellors.

Twinklestein · 11/12/2013 15:43

PS. I think it's important to make contact with your uni counsellor so that if these problems affect your ability to do your exams, the counsellor can contact your tutor (the counsellor will not give details).

In your situation, the counselling services I would personally choose are either those provided by Rape Crisis or by the Sandyford centre. Both are excellent.

You are doing incredibly well, and being incredibly strong. xx

Salemthecat · 12/12/2013 10:16

Thank you everyone for saying I'm strong. I really don't feel it. I had some horrendous dreams last night and I quite low today. I tried to phone my local rape crisis last night but I had a lecture and couldn't get through before the class started and they were closed before the class ended. I'm going to try and phone again on my lunch.

I can't thank you enough for encouraging me to seek help for this. It's not in my nature to ask for help and I find it excruciating to talk about my feelings and about the incidents. I started shaking uncontrollably both times I've said it out loud and when I wrote them down here. I still have the voice saying it's my fault, I deserve this and to feel like this and I don't deserve help or to feel better. I've been reading back over the thread to motivate myself to phone. It is very tempting to just try and squash it back down again though.

OP posts:
Lweji · 12/12/2013 10:46

This is one of those things you gather strength from letting it out. Even if the first times you shake uncontrollably. If feels like you have a lot of rage inside that you are trying to hold in, and you are turning it on yourself. Rage from the feeling of impotence, of them getting away with it and son on.
And it's a major thing in your life that you have bottling up, even with family.

It's good you are at least posting here. As you get those appointments and when you manage to speak to Rape Crisis, it's likely to get better.

Vivacia · 12/12/2013 11:25

Sometimes I think our fear of talking about stuff like this (and the shaking and sobbing and not finding the words and getting snotty...) can be worse than the actual talking. I think it gets easier and the fear subsides.

perfectstorm · 12/12/2013 13:56

You're brave because you're dealing with it. Honestly, denial is so powerful but it just causes more pain in the end. You are dealing with this and accessing the help you deserve and you will heal and get past this, eventually, in direct consequence. Lweji is right. You're doing great - take our word for it, if you aren't yet ready to feel it yourself. We can all see it. Flowers

WowserBowser · 12/12/2013 15:28

Try and think about it this way; having read the things women have gone through on this thread - you don't think they deserved it, you think they deserve help. I bet you don't think anyone is dirty or wrong. You are no different. You didn't deserve any of it.

If you think its because your story is different or that you did the wrong things then re read your op and imagine it was someone else.

Salemthecat · 02/02/2014 18:25

Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me coming back here to update.

I've had my opening session with rape crisis and I'm starting the proper ones next week. I'd like to say that I was feeling better but unfortunately I'm feeling worse.

I felt okay over Christmas and new year but over the past month I've realised just how little I've been coping. I'm anxious again, fantasising about my car crashing and I really don't like being alone. I was at the doctor on Thursday and she's increased my dose again so hopefully it'll kick in soon.

I keep thinking about it, over and over again. When I'm driving, when I'm at my desk in work, in the shower. It's constant. Trying to figure out what he did to me, I feel so sick with shame at the fact he saw me naked and I have no idea what happened.

I'm scared to be alone because I have no control over my thoughts. I just think and think and end up in a state. But even when I'm with people I'm a bit distant but at least I'm somewhat distracted.

I'm sorry for taking up more of your time with my pointless ramblings. I'm just scared I'm going to be like this forever. That this is what my life is going to be like from now on. I've never felt so alone.

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 02/02/2014 18:29

OP

I am glad you posted, if it would help you to call the samiritans to have someone to talk to, they are very good.

GimmeDaBoobehz · 02/02/2014 18:32

They are not pointless these are valid feelings.

Sometimes with talk therapy you feel worse before you get better as you have to go over painful stuff.

Sorry your thoughts have turned so negative but glad your dose has been upped. Remember this doesn't mean that you will have to be on medication indefinitely.

I had training at rape crisis so know how difficult the things you go into is but they will not force you to detail anything you don't want to. The questions they ask are to be taken as however you interpret it.

PM me if you feel like you need to talk to someone but hopefully you now have some RL support now.

Salemthecat · 02/02/2014 19:29

Thanks for replying.

I still haven't told friends or family in RL or told anyone just how bad I've been feeling. I wouldn't even know where to start.

I felt quite comfortable with the woman I met with at RC, hopefully I'll be able to open up to her.

I was telling myself for a while that this was only temporary, that it would go away but I'm doubting that now.

OP posts: