Friendships...?

[LiamsMum]

Hi everyone
Does anyone else find that people are so unreliable these days?? I just wanted to get a few other perspectives on this. I have some female friends who I've known for a long time, but it so hard to rely on them anymore. One of them always insists that I come and visit her at her house about twice a month, but many times when we arrange for her to come to my house, she cancels at the last minute. Some of the excuses she gives me are laughable - she did it to me again yesterday and I felt really hurt. And yet she phones me almost every week and it's usually her that suggests that we get together. I get so tired of her inconsistency, but I've known her for 20 years so I can't really imagine ending the friendship. A couple of my other friends also 'blow hot and cold' - a girlfriend that I've known for 12 years seems to just come in and out of my life. Towards the end of last year, she was phoning me regularly and I was also calling her and sending her emails. Then all of a sudden, I don't hear from her anymore - don't even know where she is. She has done this quite a few times over the years that I have known her. My husband & I have talked about how hard it is to consider people "real friends" these days. It makes me feel so unimportant to be treated this way... does this happen to anyone else? Thanks for listening.

Hi Liamsmum, yes I know just how you feel! I think as you get older (I'm 34) friendships get harder. They are really complicated, I guess because we're all juggling parenthood, work, partners, life etc. One of my best friends has great intentions and used to always say she was coming to see me, then not phone or not show up on the day. It really bugged me, she always had a valid exscuse,but when your waiting in for someone, or just trying to plan your day/week, it is a real let-down. In the end, when she next suggested coming down, I said 'Look, lets not make any arrangements until nearer the time, as you seem to always have things come up that make you cancel and I'd rather leave it until you know you can definitely make it'. She was pretty cross I think, but it had to be said. Since then, the air is cleared and she only calls me the night before to check if I'm free. It works much better now. Do your friends have children too? It does alter friendships massively I think if you have a child and they don't. They simply have no idea how important it is to you to meet up and have some adult conversation for a change. Its not their fault though and I do think you should persevere and find out whats happened to your friend who's vanished suddenly! When your other friend (the one who cancels with silly exscuses) does it next time, why not say something ? You could say it in a jokey way, or not, depending on how you are feeling. Don't be upset by it, see if you can change it. She may not have even realised she's been so unreliable. Good Luck!

Hi Jessi
Yes most of my friends either have one or two children. I do have one girlfriend who doesn't have any, and she has broken up with her long-time boyfriend so I guess we're 'moving in different circles'. The friend who always cancels on me DOES have two young children, so we are both living the same kind of lifestyle... I was so angry last time she cancelled our plans, because she had done it a number of times in a row. We had arranged that she would come over on a Thursday, and she phoned me on Tuesday morning (two days before) and said she was feeling a bit sick, so she would have to cancel our arrangements in case she still felt sick on Thursday. (??) I said to her, "it's still two days away... don't you want to wait and see if you feel better by then???!" I feel quite insulted by some of the lame excuses she has given me! But she still managed to go to her in-laws' place for dinner. I'm just feeling like I would rather not waste time anymore on friendships that seem like such hard work.

hi Liamsmum, I had a similar problem a few years ago with a male (single)friend, I finally blew out because he just never went the extra mile when I needed him (I'd counselled him over beers for countless break-ups of his own). and then i felt like the bad guy, for making demands of him which he obviously couldn't keep up with. we're no longer in touch. and one of my best female friends now lives so far away, that that friendship has become difficult to keep as close as it was. I know well that isolation, and you become so reliant on husband/partner

Hi Liamsmum, DH says that we put too much expectations on people... I have also been complaining of this recently. I am always making the first move (calling or inviting) and it has made me very self-conscious that maybe these friends don't really like me (a bit of self-pity - IYKWIM)... but then I discover that they have told others how much they enjoyed it when I called them, etc ! So I feel better but I do wonder why don't THEY make the effort ???
People are too busy and don't think of others (DH thinks today's societey is very egoistical)...
Don't feel better for saying this but feel better knowing I am not alone

I think it is so easy to get insecure about friendships. Like Pupuce I often find that I'm the instigator of contact. I then worry that I'm making all the effort and that people don't really want to see me, but just find it hard to say no. HOWEVER, most of the time I think I'm being paranoid and they are pleased to hear from me and to come to whatever I've invited them to. (Listen to me: from insecure cringing idiot to superfriend in 2 sentences Liamsmum, this first friend, who always insists on you going to her and cancels when she's supposed to come to you, sounds lazy... I would be hard put not to say something I think and to make it clear that you don't appreciate being let down for the umpteenth time. I agree, it does make you feel as if you're very unimportant in someone's scheme of things. You're not alone!

it's funny but it seems lke a common discussion point amongst members on the board, i too have often discussed friendships with dh and we have come to the conclusion that as you get older you become much more ruthless and pickier with your friends, we have decided more on quality rather than quantity, i have a few very close friends who i would call weekly and make the effort to visit.. friends with and without children (luckily those without kiddies have humoungous families thus are very very child friendly!), these are the type of friends who you know that you will always always stay in contact with... and then there are those who are very nice, but you know if it wasn't just for circumstances ... you would lose touch quite quickly... except the odd e mail and christmas card... it is ruthless but those on the frings are generallt weeded out!

oops better go... dd making a bit of a noise and needing attention!!!

I have one friend who ONLY comes to my house. In 3 years (since I moved out of the road where she still lives), I have only been to her house twice. She comes every week (without fail), unless I or she happens to be on holiday. She is very reliable, every week, on the dot, she turns up but she cannot take the hint that may be I would like to go to her house for a change.

I have another (ex?) (girl) friend who blows hot and cold all the time. She will phone up, we will make "definite" arrangements and then, at the last minute, cancel. When this happens more often than not, I have decided she is no longer a "reliable" friend and I have made new friends from my son's nursery who are more reliable/consistent in their friendship.

I also have some friends of long-standing (one of 20 years and one of about 17 years) and neither of them live close to me. We only chat once every few weeks and see each other two or three times a year, but I know they would always be there for me (as I would be for them). Even though we don't see each other that often, they are still good friends and very reliable.

I do find with some friends that you have an "equal" relationship but with others, the relationship is always one sided, i.e. they just take, take, take.

I can count on one hand my friends that I know I could truly count on. As was mentioned earlier, I definitely agree quality is more important than quantity.

Know what you mean bumblelion! I have a friend coming round to my house this afternoon, with her totally spoilt 5yr old dd in tow.
I suggested this morning on the phone that we come to her instead but she made some excuse. This is particulary annoying as today I will be at the docs v near her house at 12pm. So now Iam going to have to drive 30mins home just have her spend the day sitting on my couch feeding her face and supping tea, whilst her dd systematically destroys the house.

It will take me most of the evening to clear up after she is gone.
I suggested we go instead to a local playcentre but she insisted it would be too crowded as it is half term and she would rtather come to my house!!
As soon as she gets here she she WILL ask for me too make her lunch!! grrrrrr

Why don't you just tell her that it is not convieniant for her to come to you today and if you are not allowed to stop at her house after your doctors appointment then you will have to cancel. It may sound stupid but some people are so thick skinned they really don't realise they are annoying you unless you tell them and you can't in all fairness expect them to change without giving them a little guidance.

I've certainly become much more "ruthless" in culling the friends who always let me down! I think it comes with age!!
Our lives are so busy and full of children, work and home life, that any time I have free to spend with friends, they have to be special friends.
There's one friend who consistently let me down, perhaps 2 or 3 times in a row on a constant basis. When she called up one evening to tell me that she'd been offered a ticket to a Bruce Springsteen concert, and it was a better offer than going out with me (Well, OK she was at least being honest!), I suddenly thought, what do I get out of this friendship? Not much was the answer, and I've never seen her again.
I can understand, though, that it's really easy to become paranoid about friendships. There do seem to be people out there who are quite happy to take, take, take. Those of us who give, give, give need to think about ourselves for once, and question what we get out of it.

Batters - could it be that she hasn't really thought about your point of view on this ? As you say she is a single mum and is a bit depresssed... also she is probably trying to justify (to herself) how good a job she is doing.

Could you tell her that you think she is doing a wonderful job and can see where she is coming from but that she shouldn't see it as black and white... childcare is not necessarily bad and some of it is even very good. It would probably re-assure her that her child will be fine when he goes into childcare himself.
You could also point out some of the benefits for the child (I AM ALSO NOT INTERESTED IN STARTINGA SAHM/Childcare DEBATE !)... playing with new toys, having different activities from what he'd have at home, interracting with other adults and children,.... I am sure you can come up with other examples.

oh dear it sounds like lots of you need to do a little weeding out!

oh dear it sounds like lots of you need to do a little weeding out!

Batters, maybe she simply hasn't thought about how insensitive she is being. Or maybe she is simply trying to convince herself that her situation has it's plus points. As she is depressed she obviously isn't content with her lot.

I think this is really hard, you're obviously there for her and realise that she is having a tough time but she is ignoring your feelings completely (for whatever reason). It is dificult but I would mention it... if she takes offence it will be horrid but how the dusts settles will be determined by how important this friendship is for both of you. I can imagine how much you don't want to hurt her feelings but friendship works best when it's reciprocal. Resentment and bitterness will not do your friendship any good. Good luck, Winnie x

Batters, it sounds to me like your friend is trying to justify to herself the choices she has made job and childcare-wise. I have a very good friend of long-standing who was very sniffy with me when I put my first child into nursery at 9 months and started working again (she had chosen to be a SAHM). It upset me at the time, largely I think (in retrospect) because I was wondering if I was doing the right thing. 3.5 years down the line we both see that at the time she wasn't sure about the choice she had made, and was also slightly envious of me returning to the big wide world. Luckily our friendship (of 20 years now) was strong enough to get through this difficult patch.

I think all of us become much more sensitive when we become mothers & perhaps read more into comments than is strictly necessary - I recently told a friend about a creche at the leisure centre I was using; she tried it too and her DD was not happy there - my child loves it - she said she wouldn't be using it again & I immediately (until I thought about it later) assumed she was criticising my parenting skills in leaving my DS somewhere ! I know she wasn't really, but it could have felt like that. Even yesterday I commented to (another) friend about a mum I knew who had started to potty train her child at 18 months - she immediately gave me a lecture on how wrong this was, even though I had merely made a passing comment & wasn't really interested in the subject !!

I do think we all need to be careful not to be over sensitive and equally, to be very careful about the comments we make - it is so easy to be seen to be criticial about different parenting styles. So many subjects are a minefield - childbirth/breastfeeding/child care/weaning/sleeping habits etc etc - that's why it is so good to be able to have these discussions on Mumsnet! (But you can still cause offence on-line - so you can;t win!!)

Hi everyone
It's good to know I'm not the only one going through this dilemma with friends. Callie, my sister-in-law does the same thing to me, she always wants to come to my house and when I suggest coming to her house for a change, she just says something like, "no it's ok, I'll come to you." End of story. The thing that bugs me is that she has two toddlers and I only have one, so it would be easier for me to take mine over there and then I wouldn't have all three of them running around my house all the time. I would be interested to know what their reason is for wanting to come to our place all the time... whatever it is though, it's not fair. With regard to cancelling at the last minute, I find it really amazing that so many people out there are inconsiderate enough to just keep doing it, time after time. I think I will have to put my foot down and not be so accepting of it anymore.

Batters I don't think your being too sensitive, those comments are bound to rile you a bit. But i think your friend , like winnie says, is trying to convince herself that there is something positive about her situation. She doesn't sound like she has a lot going forherself and she probably has low self esteem so is trying to put you down to make herself feel a bit better.
Just a thought , but she won't be doing her son any favours by not putting him to nursery once he reaches 4. Especially if she is suffering from depression . the boy would benefit a lot fro a couple of hrs at least in a nursery.
What do you think Batters. Is it worth talking to her about this or has she totally made up her mind?

Batters, I had a friend just like yours - depressed and very defensive. I used to wait for the inevitable put downs each time we met. I stopped talking about my life and I avoided giving any opinions, in an effort to stop her stream of barbed comments. I found I had very little left to talk to her about, and the friendship died. We are now on polite but distant terms, and I never let my defenses down when we meet.

I think it takes a strong freindship to survive this sort of situation. Ours wasn't. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

Pupuce
When I met you in London I made a light suggestion to you that maybe we could meet up sometime as you live near me and I visit Tunbridge Wells regularly. You responded that you couldn't possibly ever visit me as I live in Hastings!!

Don't understand? I live up north! Whats wrong with Hastings?

Are you serious CAM ? With all that we drank... not sure I said what and not sure you remember correctly
Now that I am sober... if you come shopping to TW, please let me know, we could definitely meet up.
P.S. I have talked about you on another thread about living in London.... and moving to Hastings
Callie : Nothing wrong with Hastings but it's not the shopping mecca that TW is (right CAM?)