Friendships...?

[LiamsMum]

Hi everyone
Does anyone else find that people are so unreliable these days?? I just wanted to get a few other perspectives on this. I have some female friends who I've known for a long time, but it so hard to rely on them anymore. One of them always insists that I come and visit her at her house about twice a month, but many times when we arrange for her to come to my house, she cancels at the last minute. Some of the excuses she gives me are laughable - she did it to me again yesterday and I felt really hurt. And yet she phones me almost every week and it's usually her that suggests that we get together. I get so tired of her inconsistency, but I've known her for 20 years so I can't really imagine ending the friendship. A couple of my other friends also 'blow hot and cold' - a girlfriend that I've known for 12 years seems to just come in and out of my life. Towards the end of last year, she was phoning me regularly and I was also calling her and sending her emails. Then all of a sudden, I don't hear from her anymore - don't even know where she is. She has done this quite a few times over the years that I have known her. My husband & I have talked about how hard it is to consider people "real friends" these days. It makes me feel so unimportant to be treated this way... does this happen to anyone else? Thanks for listening.

NCT HQ would love to hear about these 2 stories to print in their member's magazine. Call them on 0208 992 2616 if you'd like to see your name in print. R

Glad to hear you didn't take offence at my message jasper...(ifeel i've got to be a bit careful in case i trigger off another big feud like the robin w thing that everyone was ranting about the other week!!)
I think I should point out that ds isn't my sole topic of conversation in case you all think i'm really sad!I like to talk about other things as well .Something that did occur to me though was this.. if before you had kids another childless friend came to see you and talked about her job would you have been bored and annoyed? I shouldn't think so, I know I wouldn't.Its what she does and how she spends the majority of her time, she's going to talk about it.Yet if that job is looking after her kids full time and she wants to talk about that then she becomes boring and annoying.Its so UNFAIR!!!
I agree about NCT groups.I've kept in touch with everyone from my ante-natal class and i'm particular friends with one of the couples .It was the best money i've ever spent i think.The coffees are better in terms of mums socialising than toddler groups too.
One worry that I won't ever have though Jasper is that my SIL will come on this site and recognise herself....a site about children..like er why??????!!!!!

I am a bit like Empress although I do not work. I am a naval wife in portsmouth and sometimes feel isolated and alone, especially with no family around, most of the friends disappeared when I had the two children, especially when they are now at the toddler stages (of 3 and 2). I am 38, but am a stay at home mum due to the cost of childcare if I worked. Sometimes would just like a night out with some friends but not possible due to having to babysit the children and no babysitter help. Just would like to hear that I am not alone!!!

denisesapphire20 I know exactly how you feel. My dh is in the Navy (we're in Portsmouth as well) and with him being away such a lot people don't tend to realise when you have children and no family nearby that its your life that gets put on hold. I wanted to do a course at the uni but couldn't because dh was away. For the first two years of ds' life dh was away for all but four months in all. Now he's shore based for 18 months its a bit easier on the one hand but harder on the other because they have no idea of routines etc! My ds is 2 as well so if you want to meet sometime let me know.

Hi.. I just want to vent about my friend in my original post. She has moved around quite a lot in the last few years (known her since 1989), but we've stayed in touch and try to catch up when we can. We were phoning/emailing regularly late last year and my dh and I flew down to spend the weekend where she lives, so we could catch up with her and her new boyfriend for the weekend. Not long afterwards, she broke up with him and I was speaking to her quite a lot, as she was going through a rough patch at the time. She kept saying that we had to make sure we kept in touch with each other regularly. Anyway I called her one day in November to see how she was. She sounded hurried and said "I've got to go now, but I'll call you again soon". I didn't hear from her but sent her a Christmas card saying I hoped she was ok, and that I was thinking of her. Anyway that was three months ago... I told my dh a few weeks ago that I can't believe she hasn't called me in so long. Then the other day I received an email that I thought was funny and sent it to quite a few people on my address list, including her. Then lo and behold, I receive an email from her the next day saying that she has met the man of her dreams and is living with him in yet another place. Apparently she is helping him set up his business and they are going to travel overseas for a few months, and then come back and start a family!!! (The last I heard she was doing a course in another town). She included her new phone number on the email but I thought to myself "Couldn't you have called me????" I just feel as though I don't want to bother anymore. I know I should probably just accept that this is the way she is, but if I hadn't sent the email, I don't know how long it would have been before I heard from her. I guess I've known her for long enough but I just find it infuriating, like she only calls us when she needs us.

Liamsmum - I agree with you.... I wouldn't bother to be honest. I have in the past like you made efforts with some friends who suddenly turn around and say it was nice of you to call, so much enjoyed the chat, etc and NEVER call themselves.
Sometimes if I really like that person, I will make the effort but I have to say that frienship is a 2 way street.

Whew, just catching up with these threads and getting the odd few minutes to join in real life .
Liamsmum you asked if I would get bored and annoyed if a childless friend talked about her job all the time . The answer is YES! I have friend who does exactly this but it took me a while to realise it. Three of us meet for a meal every six weeks or so and the one with no kids totally hogs the conversation talking about her job.
So yes it is a delicate social skill to be able to discuss your joys/concerns about your kid/job/husband/ house purchase or whatever without completely dominating the conversation.
I still maintain as a rule you have to be careful not to expect the rest of the world to be completely enamoured with your children to anything like a fraction of the extent you yourself are.
If friends show a complete disregard for them and don't even enquire after them from time to time that's a different thing and is just plain rude.

Jasper, thanks for your response but it wasn't me who asked you if you would get bored if your friend talked about their job all the time!! But that's ok... it must have been someone else on this thread. Now that we've touched on that subject, I really don't talk to my friends much about my son. Only if they ask - then I will tell them how he is. But a couple of my friends blow me away, one of them is a mother herself but NEVER asks me anything about my son. I do find it quite rude that I speak to some friends countless times, and they still don't ask how he is or want to know anything about him. I usually save my "kiddie" conversations for a couple of women who are genuinely interested in talking about our children, and we discuss things about each other's kids & try to give advice where we can. Otherwise I don't push my son down peoples' throats because I remember what it was like before I had him - I really wasn't interested in children. Even now, most of my conversations with people tend to be about other things.

Whoops. sorry , mixing up Liamsmum amd Alexsmum...my tired old postnatal brain at work !

When push comes to shove Jasper think we actually agree on this issue!!! Basically friends should show an interest but 'one' should not be a bore!!
Two new points to discuss on the same theme.
Felt really bad the other day as I had been feeling annoyed that one of my friends hadn't called when she said she would...turns out her dad was in hospital dying, and has since died.So, sometimes people aren't being unreliable.
Secondly, on a lighter note,dh bumped into the dad of the only couple we didn't keep in touch with from ante natal classes.We hadn't kept in touch because they, especially the woman,were very strange.And he invited us to his daughters birthday party.AArgh .What to do???!!!
Don't want to appear unfriendly or standoffish but also...well there is a reason why we haven't kept in touch!!! Any opinions?
Massive congrats by the way Jasper.Hope all is going well.

I should put this under "A Good Slapping", since I feel like slapping my friend right now!!! Hope you don't mind if I have a rant about this. I have known my best friend now for almost 20 years. Since her divorce, she's made friends with another single mother, who seems to be a very strong-minded woman. Every time I try to arrange to see my friend, something always happens and we have to cancel our arrangements, and it's always because of this other woman. She is very domineering and my friend has a problem saying "no" to her. Anyway I recently invited my friend to a birthday party, and she called me straight away to say she was coming. Lo and behold, she calls me again the next day and says that this other woman has also organised something on the same day as my party, so she doesn't know if she'll be able to come or not. She told me she's nervous of saying 'no' to this other woman, but I am so sick of never being able to rely on her anymore. She rings me all the time and I have recently been helping her to organise her 40th birthday party, and now she lets me down again. DH says he doesn't know why I bother with her anymore because she can never commit to any arrangements we make. Am I being an idiot to put up with this? I feel like giving her a slap (a cyber slap, anyway ) and walking away for a while. What do you think?

Does seem a bit odd for a 39 yo woman to be behaving like this, and I'd be really unhappy about it if it was happening to me.

I feel you need to talk to her about it - explain that much as you want to continue the friendship (could describe exactly what you like about her), you feel unable to make any arrangements to see her anymore because she always lets you down. Fair enough if something happens eg child being ill, but it's just not done to cancel in order to do something with someone else!

I would delve a bit about the not being able to say no; find out exactly why she feels this and give her a bit of help, perhaps she's not very confident about making friends and doesn't want to lose this one. But she needs to understand that she'll lose you if she can't treat you with basic courtesy.

Mopsy, she's never really had a huge amount of confidence - I think it's been undermined a lot by her parents in the past. They still seem to have a fair amount of control over her even though she's nearly 40. Anyway I find it unacceptable and feel like saying something to her now. I get the feeling that because I'm quite easy-going (and her other friend is NOT), she finds it easier to let me down than the other woman. I just feel like I don't want to be on the receiving end of any more disappointments from her, and will have to let her know (in the nicest way possible) before I lose it completely!!

I have a friend (no DH, no children). We were best friends and I have known her for about 16 years.

We used to be in a little group of 4 and all of a sudden she took a dislike to one member and told her the friendship was over (and has given her no explanation at all- she hadn't even seen this particular person for about a year!!).

I am still very close frineds with this other woman, and as an adult, I decided that whatever problems my friend had with her was between them and so we could still remain friends.

However, since then(over a year ago), she has not rang me more than twice (I had DS in that time and it took her 2 months before she came to see him, despite that fact that one of my friends from Ireland was able to come and see him within days of his birth). I was always ringing her. She'd say 'let's get together' and then not bother to call back to arrange anything.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, she has been invited to DS 1st birthday party and I have had no reply to the invitation yet, so I have decided that if she does not show and does not ring to give an explanation, I will no longer continue the friendship.

Is this harsh? I think that I have given her untold chances already.

Any advice would be great.

I don't have any advice but I suspect that for some reason your friend has moved on with her life and is not interested to stay in touch. It's dad but it happens a lot - I lost my best friend this way - I respect her wish to no longer communicate with me.

I don't think that you need to make a decision really about continuing or not continuing the frienship - like has been said, it may just need a rest, you may just not have a lot in common with each other at the moment.

I am sorry but I have only read the first post (with interest). In my view your real friends are the ones who you don't have to clean the house before they arrive for!! Someone once said you have met all your true friends by the time you are 25 - I disagree. Yes, I/we have friends who we have know for 30-25 years, some of whom we only see every six months or so but each time we get together it's as if it were only yesterday. Then again we have some friend who we only recently met on holiday (cliche etc..) but we sincerely feel as if we have known them for much longer, again we are so happy in their company, tell each other all sorts and are very honest with each other and hope we all grow old together.
Equally there are friends who we have known a long time who to be honest are just a habit and to be honest we don't trust and just go through the motions with (I know that sounds terrible!!)and are a bit boring ... Just to add I /we have friends who are childless (for various reasons) I do think the relationship is soooooooooo very different. I do feel embarassed when they call unannounced and the house is a tip - I'm just in the middle of the tea time/bathtime routine and they are a little shell-shocked (and not much help!!) Then again I do love hearing all their carefree stories, the shopping trips (money no object), last minute holidays and raunchy relationships ( the c ** - only joking), hobbies, office banter and afterwork socialising.
To sum up I feel you need 'all sorts' in your life but only make time for the ones who make you happy and whose company you enjoy - after all when you are a mum spare time is PRECIOUS - SPEND IT WISELY!!

CUSTARDO - sorry to hijack the thread a bit and I don't want to sound clique but I just wanted to tell Custardo what a brilliant friend she is. I met her again this weekend and I miss her already, I do want to see you in September, you are a brill friend! Love you loads! (in a heterosexual kind of way of course!!!!!!)

Please no pc comments about that!

My apologies if I repeat something since thread started in Feb! As ds has been growing up I did feel that many of my friends are really not interested anymore.It felt as if they needed me before (for a shoulder to cry on or an ear-bashing about somehting) or if they wanted to go out somewhere I was availalble, but now because I can't drop everything I'm not as useful. I realised though that at the end of the day however much you give you can only expect whatever someone wants to give in return. It can be hurtful when the balance seems uneven. I don't really know many friends with small children and I think it can be quite difficult for people to understand the constraints on you and even to know how to be supportive. I've been really let down by several friends all for different reasons, somethings can't be resolved eg a couple we knew couldn't have children and despite our best efforts they have more or less broken communication with us, which hurt but I suppose somethings are too difficult to deal with. I may prefer more but have learnt to just accept friendships at the level they come. I'm really pleased to have discovered such a great 'community' at mumsnet, it's nice to see that it's not only me that feels lousy sometimes, but it's also nice to hear about good things too.

Jendy, I think that once you have kids your life and your focus change so completely that sometimes some old friendships just don't survive. Childless friends, however lovely, don't really understand what constraints having kids puts you under - they also perhaps don't understand why you find your children so fascinating that you want to talk about them quite a lot (or that having small children leaves you so little free time to do other things that, lets face it, you may not have many other things to talk about ). I think you just have to say to yourself that you have moved on into a new phase of your life, and maybe their new phase doesn't match up with yours (or maybe they just haven't grown up yet ). Can be tough to face, though.

I have to say, but I've got some great mates - especially EH (nee G) - you know who you are!!!!

We have known each other for SUCH a long time - over 20 years and have a great time together. We've weathered the roughs with the smooths, done the girly holiday thang, both have 2 children at very similar ages.

I think the key to our friendship is that we both have not particularly changed (we're still 18 going on 37), we still love going out, strive not to look/or be too mumsy and we just have a great laugh together.

It remains for me to say - thanks for being such a great mate.

My best friend's eldest (of 4) is 14 - whereas my ds is only going on 2. We stayed good friends through all my "childless" years (and various relationships) but I always made an effort to involve myself with her family (was/am seen as a favourite auntie and now dh is a favourite "uncle" ) - and she in turn took, as she herself put it "a vicarious pleasure in my single life" (although, to tell the truth, until I met dh, it was usually a case of picking up the pieces!).

Good friends are precious. You can go months without talking to them, but it doesn't matter. It can also drive partners mad, as you have such a shared history of experiences and memories that you only need to say something like "jam strawberries" to be rolling on the floor laughing with others looking on in bemusement.

JanZ - well said, my 'BF' also has two much older children whilst mine is just 18 months - BF & I have been friends since we were five & have so many happy memories - it just wasn't an issue that she had children many years before me - I felt our different lifestyles gave us a lot MORE to talk about. I think everyone needs a really wide circle of friends with different lifestyles - how dull we would all be if we were all the same. I have some great friendships with younger people who are 'childfree' - in fact all three people who are Godparents to our DS were deliberatley chosen becuase they were young, child free & very interested & loving towards our DS not to mention Church goers, except in one case! Don't want to re-start that thread!!