Friendships...?

[LiamsMum]

Hi everyone
Does anyone else find that people are so unreliable these days?? I just wanted to get a few other perspectives on this. I have some female friends who I've known for a long time, but it so hard to rely on them anymore. One of them always insists that I come and visit her at her house about twice a month, but many times when we arrange for her to come to my house, she cancels at the last minute. Some of the excuses she gives me are laughable - she did it to me again yesterday and I felt really hurt. And yet she phones me almost every week and it's usually her that suggests that we get together. I get so tired of her inconsistency, but I've known her for 20 years so I can't really imagine ending the friendship. A couple of my other friends also 'blow hot and cold' - a girlfriend that I've known for 12 years seems to just come in and out of my life. Towards the end of last year, she was phoning me regularly and I was also calling her and sending her emails. Then all of a sudden, I don't hear from her anymore - don't even know where she is. She has done this quite a few times over the years that I have known her. My husband & I have talked about how hard it is to consider people "real friends" these days. It makes me feel so unimportant to be treated this way... does this happen to anyone else? Thanks for listening.

It's funny my problem isn't my friends it's my family. My DH is Australian we met married and had 2 DS' there. I lived there for 15 years but moved to be near my family `8 months ago. I have renewed contact with soem old schoold friends. one with children one w/o and have also made some new friends through a mother and toddler group and its all going swimingly. however my family who I love dearly seem to have very little time for my kids. they never spend time with them or want to get to know them. My mother lives next door and if We didn't visit I don't think I would see her from one end of the week to the next. My sisters ( no children) come to stay regularly no phone call just the assumption they can stay and I'm lucky if they spend 10 minutes with my DS'. They think we should be able to produce babysitters at the drop of a hat and party till the small ours like they do. No thanks anyway I think we'll move back to adelaide later this year. I'm glad we've spent time back here but I thi k we can make a better life in Australia.
thanks for listening

Thank you Pupuce, I will.

This seems like the right thread to air my 'grievance' on.DH and I are friends with a couple we went to uni with and while I wouldn't say we were close friends we have stayed in touch and meet up every couple of months...when their busy,busy schedule allows it!!! Anyway on my sons 1st birthday last year, we were having a party as he was getting christened on the same day.They had been invited weeks in advance and had told us that they were definitely coming.Then on the day they just didn't turn up.No phone call, and more importantly to me no birthday card for my son.I was absolutely raging...I can't explain how angry I was.This probably sounds really over the top and irrational but I just couldn't believe that they didn't acknowledge his b'day.I was ready to never speak to them again but dh didn't want to lose his friendship with his mate.In the end I phoned with the intention of dragging an apology out of her and when she answered the phone she was all breezy and asking how the party had gone like nothing was wrong.I just couldn't speak I was so angry and made an excuse and passed the phone to dh.She reckoned that her nan had been ill and she had had to go visit her.Although why that stopped her putting a card in the post for ds I don't know.
Anyway,waffle waffle, she has since had a baby of her own and is on maternity leave .So she has arranged to come and visit the day after ds birthday .If she doesn't bring him a card this year then I may just have to kill her.This probably sounds really stupid but I found it really hurtful.

Alexsmum, I can relate to how angry you were. I think I would have been more angry at their rudeness of not turning up or phoning, rather than the fact that they didn't send your son a card. I know you probably found this hurtful but from experience, I know that people who don't have children generally don't understand that things like that are important. It's only when you have your own child that their birthdays etc become very important to you. If it was me, I would have been extremely upset at the way they just couldn't be bothered to turn up or contact you, and I don't think I would be able to trust them again. I certainly wouldn't feel that they were true friends. There seems to be a breed of people out there who just don't think there is anything wrong with being unreliable, and they would probably be shocked to think that you were so angry at their behaviour... anyway good luck and I hope things go better this time around.

But I find that the people who are unreliable with arrangements and don't cancel or apologise in any way for letting you down are always the most annoyed when people do it to them. They seem to want more "rights" than the rest of us....

Thanks Liamsmum for your message of support.I agree totally about them being 'true' friends.I would certainly never depend on them or turn to them in a crisis.I tend to be a little like a lioness with her cub as far as ds is concerned,and get very worked up if I feel people aren't paying him what I think is an 'appropriate ' amount of attention.That doesn't sound right...basically I want everyone to love him (and I know that is unrealistic).I think they may be a little more in tune with this now they have their own child.
I don't think I have expressed myself very articulately here but i'm sure you get what i'm trying to say.

alexsmum, you have raised a fascinating point, namely wanting everyone to love your children.
I got a really strong vibe from my sister about this. She had two small children , at the time I had none. I was always pleased to see them but not crazy about them! ( can't think of a more delicate way to put that!)I felt a definite friction between myself and my sister about it. She would often interupt a conversation by saying " oh look at ..." because she thought he wa doing something incredibly cute, and it used to bug me because I did not find it remotely endearing! It made me make a conscious effort never to expect others to find my children appealing . And of course now that I have two this is not as easy as I thought it would be, but I do try to restrict my displays of glowing pride to grandparents who think the same way anyway!
Please don't think I am saying this is necessarily the way it is with you or that you have inappropriately high expectations of how others should feel about your children. It is just that your post brought back something I had completely forgotten about.
Incidentally I do like my sisters kids even more now I have my own, and now they are a bit older, my sister has admitted she herself does not find them nearly so cute!

Jasper you sound just like my sister in law!! Alex is 2 now and I think I can probably count the number of times she has seen him on one hand.One particular incident sticks out in my memory.He was 5 months old and we were at dh's parents house when she arrived.She had only seen him once before in his life and my FIL said to her " Have you seen the baby?"(He was asleep on my lap) and she turned very briefly and just said"Oh yeah".And that was it.I could have stabbed her.I found and still do find that incredibly hurtful.She still shows little interest him but I just tell myself that she is losing out because she isn't going to have a relationship with him.He was looking at some family photos a while ago and pointing to everyone and saying nana,grandad etc and when he saw her he didn't know who she was.I think thats really sad.
Maybe its just me.I have a very close relationship with my nephews and my niece and can't imagine not being mad about them and wanting to see them and my siblings have a very similar relationship with ds.Horses for courses.maybe I expect too much.
I've just read this through and realise that I have said that you are like my SIL and have then slagged her off mercilessly.I'm sorry !!! Please don't take offence!!!!! ( by the way, my friend arrived and brought a card and a present and paid him loads of attention!!)

No Offence at all, I am sitting here giggling, thinking I hope your sil and my sister never discover this site and identify us and therefore themselves!
Honest, I am not at all like her! I visited my sis on hospital as soon as they would let me ( I think I sneaked in out of hours when her first was born) and cried my eyes out when I saw both her beautiful babes.
I hope I did not give the impression I don't have a close relationship with my nephews and nieces because I do, and we see loads of each other. It is just that when my sisters kids were really young I think she was over the top in wanting us to adore them. I DID adore them which is the daft thing, but sometimes she "could not see past them" - don't know if this is just a Scottish expression! Seemed she had no interest in anything/anyone else at all for a while.She is spending tomorrow with me and is leaving the kids with her husband - something she would never have done before and we are both really looking forward to it.

I have to agree with the comments about some mothers (perhaps dads too) having over ambitious expectations about the interest others have in their children - I am very late to motherhood & most of my friends had children well before I did & quite honestly I was often bored/annoyed that when I went round for an evening (wouldn't expect this for day time visits) the children would be up late and we couldn't have any adult time.

Now I am a mum myself and I am acutely aware of the need NOT to bore other people with my child - in fact today I had some friends round (without children) & my DS was asleep - I was really enjoying the adult, non-child focussed discussions but the others kept asking 'when will you get him up, we want to see him!!'

I don't know if other mums feel this but I really need the stimulation of other adult conversation and just don't want to talk babies non stop.

I agree. We have good friends and they always want to meet up with the kids.... I just can't have a decent conversation when the kids are around... especially as the men will go off to have their conversation and the mums get to look after the kids. It's great fun because the kids are fab but sometimes we start a meaningful conversation... we can never finish it !

i agree. i've found mum and baby groups rather unrewarding for the same reasons. the whole point of these groups, imo, is for the mothers to make friends, but i've found it almost impossible to have the meaningful adult inter action required to develop a friendship when the babies are there. but of course no-one would be able to meet if they couldn't bring the babes.

Bossykate, I agree about toddler groups too, its really hard when your in the middle of a good chat and then have to run to rescue your child/another child from a disaster! I think the one thing that really gets to me is when childless friends just talk over your toddler. I had this yesterday, on the phone to a friend, unhappy toddler clinging to my leg protesting. Friend carries on chatting away, while ds wailing 'off the phone mummy' and I'm stuck in the middle desperately trying to hear what friend is saying and find some miraculous thing that will distract ds for a moment or two! Also when my sister comes to visit, she consistantly talks over him, I end up having two seperate conversations, one with her, another with ds.. its exhausting!

LOL, Bossykate - not really having thought about it that much, I'd always assumed M&B groups were for my child and I was just a 'hanger on', as it were!

I totally agree about not being able to have a conversation at such groups so I developed a strategy when I met a 'like-minded mum' of asking her for coffee at my house, in the hopes of taking the friendship further. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't but then I was quite advanced in years before I realised that it wasn't compulsory for me to be friends with every single person I ever met.

Suedonim

Maybe that's the case when the kids reach toddler stage but when they're a few weeks/months old, it seems obvious to me that the main advantage is (supposed to be)for the mums! In fact, "post natal support" is the term for the NCT coffee groups for mums with babies this age in my area! I knew ds would be off to nursery before too long, so did not have the need to find playmates for him.

Actually, I was pretty lucky on maternity leave, as my husband was on sabbatical at the time, so I was never short of adult contact during the day. However, I didn't want to miss out on the chance of meeting new people (why not?), but was quite philosophical about how it would turn out. It's not as though I have much time to see my existing friends as it is!

I went back to work about six weeks ago and am just wondering whether to stay in touch with people I met at the ante and post natal NCT groups... we'll see.

Good idea to try to meet someone on a one to one basis if you seem to hit it off. It's difficult to get the balance right though isn't it? How to seem open, approachable and friendly, but not needy, clingy or (lol!) like a stalker!

Anyway, will stop rambling. As I have completed my maternity leave, I must be feeling ruminative on my experiences therein!

Yes, you're right about the PN groups, Bossykate. I was focusing on toddlers, as that was what was mentioned earlier. But I didn't find it too difficult to talk to other people in groups when we all had small babies as (hopefully) they would either be asleep or feeding and there was none of the running to scoop them out of harm's way etc.

LOL at the stalker - now there's a spooky thought!

hmm... seemed to be a lot of fussing going on at my groups, suedonim, not just an idyll of peaceful sleep and contented feeding, while the mothers conversed trenchantly and wittily on the topic du jour... maybe as almost exclusively first time mums we were less laid back than we might be in future. i appreciate it will only get more difficult as they get more mobile!

Topic du jour? I guess you mean the colour of the contents of the last nappy, tee hee!

Just been reading through all the messages (I'm a newcomer!) - interested to read about 'culling' and 'weeding' friendships, I feel like all ours were doused with weedkiller the day our little boy was born! Partner & I both used to have decent social lives, but gradually the combination of both working fulltime, having small child (& 2 older ones who don't live with us) has just eroded all our spare time and energy, leaving no time for friends. I feel v lonely, and would love to meet some other parents. Our child goes to ft workplace nursery - which is great in many ways, but does mean we never meet any local parents/kids cos we're only at home evenings (with maybe one exhausted hour to ourselves before bed) and w/ends. We have no family who live in the area and so nobody to help out with childcare. sometimes we feel v isolated indeed, wish there was a 'Rent a Friend' service!!!!!!!!!

I think I've been quite lucky in that I made a good friend through NCT antenatal classes. Our kids are now 16 months old, and we both work part-time - but manage to meet up once a week to have a coffee while to kids play. Also, from my local health centre post-natal classes, there are about 7 of us who are still in touch - more than a year later. We all live in a similar area, so meet up at playgroup, or go swimming etc. This is all in the daytime with the kids, so yes, conversations are stunted by kids needs. However, we also make a point of going out one evening a month together (leaving fathers to babysit) - and go out for a meal, to the cinema, or just to the pub - where we can have adult conversations. I think this has helped to keep me sane (I think!!) and certainly means you have other people to talk to who are in the same boat as you.

Empress

It must be very hard when you are both working full-time trying to meet other parents with small children. Why don't you contact your local NCT branch and find out if they have a Working Mums' Group, which might hold weekend coffee mornings/afternoons or evening meetings. Even though I only work part-time, I used to belong to one of these in my local branch. We used to meet in each other's homes with our children for coffee and a chat every three weeks on Sunday afternoons. To find your nearest NCT branch and a contact name, call the Head Office on 0870 444 8707.

Hi Empress

Despite my quibbles below about the "quality of interaction" (!) I would still recommend the NCT route for meeting new people. I'd certainly try it myself if, say, I moved to a new area away from current friends and family. Many NCT branches do have a working mums group - or maybe you could start one in your area?

This of course assumes that one has the time to attend/start such a group... I've just gone back to work ft - biggest shock to the system since ds actually arrived! It seems like there are just not enough hours in the day or days in the week for that matter!

Maybe it is all down to organisation - by which I definitely don't mean to suggest that you are not already v. organised (what working mum isn't?) but that certain things such as time for yourself, your husband and your friends should come higher up the list of priorities when doing your household time planning? This is something we definitely need to address in our household at the moment - don't always manage to practice what I preach here!

Anyway, sorry you are feeling isolated, I hope someone will come up with something helpful.

The best thing about the NCT antenatal classes I went too is that - two years on - I am still as thick as thieves with three of the girls I met there. We've worked out that we each cost each other £33 - we reckon it was the best money we've ever spent. My girlies are my life line and I wouldn't swap them for the world.

I meant "went to" - christ, I'm meant to be a writer and I can't even spell.

Willow2, my friend is still meeting up with her NCT group - 21 years on! They go away for weekends to health farms etc now they no longer have littlies to worry about.