anyone gone no contact with an ex despite having children.

[nocontactforevermore]

Hi everyone. I am feeling pretty low tonight and realised that if I don't get help with this aspect of my life, i am going to wreck it, basically.

My ex and I split up years ago and its been very acrimonious. We never married and have one young dd. He has dragged me to court several times and his wife also involves herself in our situation. He uses our dd against me - for example won't let me speak to her on the phone if I've upset him in any way and gives me constant unrelenting grief about the way i parent her. I feel as though he is trying to dismantle every important relationship in her life, he reported her cm to ofsted, told cafcass I was a terrible mother, is always up at the school telling them I'm withholding information from him. His latest thing now is that he has convinced dd her best friend is bullying her and has reported that to the school as well. i get on with her mother really well and am mortified at the fall out it will cause.

I feel completely and utterly depressed by it all. Court proceedings haven't brought us any relief because he constantly attacks my parenting. If we have the slightest disagreement about any normal aspect of parenting - he will bring out the big guns and swing low every time. His court statement was the most horrific slandering of my care of our dd This weekends instalment was about how i left dd with a babysitter and that he wasn't letting me speak to dd on the phone because she didn't want to. He ranted and raved about how unhappy I make our child by leaving her with her grandparents on xyz occasions and how our holiday times are a joke because all I do is run with my mates while she left with whoever.

The problem I have is this……I just cannot get the messages out of my head. Even after 6 years, he knows exactly what he needs to say to upset me. I KNOW thats his intention, I KNOW I need to delete and laugh them off, but I just can't. Heres what I do, in exactly this order:
Read them over and over again, respond to them defending myself and sometimes engaging in a slanging match which I then beat myself up about because i have stooped to his level….read the messages over and over, question my parenting, ring my mum and friends, cry my eyes out, ask them if he's right, talk to my partner about it all night long and read and re-read those awful messages/emails again and again. A sort of gloomy silent depression settles over our house when I get these messages. If they come while I'm out at night in a restaurant or wherever….we have to go home because I am so upset. It lasts for days. My partner is so upset by it all because he says that my ex has such a hold on me after all these years and something needs to give.

I think what i'm terrified of is my ex managing to convince my dd in years to come of my perceived failures. What is normal for most people (i.e. leaving her with grandparents while we go out for a night) is being portrayed to her as neglect. I am terrified that he will normalise all these things for her and warp her against me. I question myself all the time….worry that I am a crap mother, that he's right, that I will lose my child to them. He seems to know an awful lot about my life. I can't tell if dd is complaining about me or he is grilling her. She is only 7.

I felt so anxious and stressed about all of this last year that my doc offered me anti-d's. I didn't take them but took herbal ones instead as I want to try and deal with this properly. I am very happy with my partner ( ex even demanded a CRB on him last year) but I live in fear of the next allegation….the next 'complaint' to an official body….the next friendship he destroys. I am ordinarily a strong woman, have a professional career, no history of depression etc, but this has controlled my life. A relative of mine said that I am never going to be free of him, so I need to find a way of managing how I respond to him….so thats why I'm here.

Here are my ideas so far:

1. get a pay as you go and only turn it on once a week for dd to call him on his allotted him. I can't bear to see messages and emails from him coming through to my phone as they make me so so anxious.
2. set up an alternative email address and get my partner to field emails from him/filter them. Check only once a week.
3. get some kind of therapy. I don't know who to approach for this or who I could see- I need someone to help me deal with how i respond to him.

What I would like to know, is can you see any potential pitfalls of going no contact with him? i've resisted it so far because I'm terrified he will need to get hold of me in an emergency and so I will end up checking the phone constantly anyway. I also fear that this is moving our already awful relationship 'down another level'. Can two people raise a child without speaking….ever? I mean we don't text all week usually but we are able to exchange simple messages about her school needs etc. What would I do about these situations? i guess Im trying to say that I've tried in the past to only have this kind of arrangement with him but every time he sends a nasty message, i am back at square one. Going no contact seems to be the only solution….but is it? What else could i do?

Finally, I would love someone to tell me for sure that they will not be successful in convincing my dd that she is being shortchanged by me….but she aready questions my choices. I can see already that she is being worked on and i want to try and stop this. I never ever speak badly about her dad in front of her, but she isn't daft and has picked up on the conflict from the other side ( she tells me for example that she keeps her sm happy by not mentioning my name). I feel so so sorry for her…..is there a therapy of any kind that I could engage her in to show her that she is not being failed in some way by me?

I am SO sorry about the length of this….thanks for getting this far.

I agree. Detach. Detach. Detach. If she doesn't phone him so what. If she does phone him, go into another room so you cannot hear the conversation. Block his email. Delete texts without reading. Let him waste his money taking you to court. Ask for costs when you get there. He can huff & puff but he will not blow your house down. Unless you let him.

Lewji - at the heart of all my worries is the anguish that my child will be influenced by him and feel that I've failed her. That's not a preoccupation with myself :/

See, you're still worried that she thinks you failed her. It's about how you are seen, not if she's happy.

You can't fail her unless you become too obsessed with your image and how you are perceived.
Stick to your ground and ignore him.

Is it best that she has a bath or skips it? Not if you'll be criticised for not giving her a bath.
Is it best to go to that pub? Or do you both want to go? Not what he'll think.

I think you'd benefit from cognitive behavioural therapy to change this. Could you talk to your gp about it or seek private therapy?

He is playing you like a violin, even after all this time. Do you want to be played by him?

My suggestion would be that every time he contacts you, you take a step back and think:
How does he want me to react?
Is reacting that way best for my daughter?
Is reacting that way the best thing for me?
Final step- how will I react (if at all) instead?

I am essentially NC with my DCs' father and he has them EOW and shared holidays. Pickups are done from school and back to another family member, phone calls are not accepted, no texts and emails are for practical arrangements only. The DCs also do not have phone contact with the other parent when with the other iyswim - which is preferable quite frankly, for them and me.

I was in the place you are - completely controlled by ex, having palpitations every time I opened my email (which were penned by a helper too!), and going nc has set me and the kids free. You must do this! My top tips are:

• tell your ex you will now only be responding to emails, then
• no phone calls at all

-delete texts without reading

• only answer emails about practical arrangements, and always wait a day or two before replying
• save any unpleasant emails in a separate folder (as evidence he's unhinged), but never respond!
• never comment on his parenting to him (ie the boots scenario)
• never ask your dd about him - if there's something she needs to tell you, she will

-never criticise him to her - in fact, try to remember the good things about him, and tell her little tidbits of the nice things you remember - this seems counter-intuitive, but if you're mean about him it will inspire her to want to defend him

• don't worry about the changing clothes business, just make sure you always send her with what you need
• don't have conversations with her about what she can and can't tell ppl - children should never feel there are secrets they have to keep

I have been nc with ex-h for approx 6 years now, and he's still a prick, but I couldn't give a toss what he thinks, and it never intrudes in how I parent any more - I was under his power for years, but then I realised, nothing bad happens when I ignore him...

You've had it incredibly tough! I can see how insidious this incessant criticism must be. I would not want anyone looking over my shoulder every time the DC had unhealthy food for their tea or stayed up a bit late. It's all normal stuff and not a crime. But it's stuff you feel, quite rightly, you could be taken to court for.

Are you in a position to discuss all of this with a solicitor? This may involve changing the court order so that he does not call when she is with you, as Generic suggests. As you've found, the court does not want to hear about her skipping a bath or eating lunch in a pub. You can counter harassment. (Save those emails!)

I hope you are able to cut contact with him. That will change your life.

And yes, therapy for you, too, because this has been horrible and of course you can't always unload on your DP. But first see how you feel after you go NC - you may be 'cured'. :)

Oh, last thing... know that as your DD grows she will be less and less willing to be grilled by him. She will be wise to his game - teenagers are very quick on this stuff. If you grow up in a home where it is all you know, then it can be hard to detach. But she has your home, too, and will realise that her father's obsession with bathtime at yours and what she had to eat is not the norm.

All the best!

If it helps the court won't care at all about issues over bath time. The way you run your domestic life on a day to day business is entirely your own business. The court will only intervene if she is persistently filthy, hungry missing school etc.

If he wants to take you to court, let him. Judge won't be impressed.

Definitely go for counselling, It will help you find out why the views of what your X and dd think about you are so important to you. When you are confident to trust your own opinions you won't waste any more of your life stressing like this and you will be able to relax and enjoy your dd.xx

Worrying about my dd's opinion of me truly t's isn't a obsession about myself (lewji) - that couldn't be further from the truth. If my dd feels in any way negative about me, my care of her, her time with me etc, then by definition- she wouldn't be happy. In essence, how she feels about me, is tied up in how happy she is in her life with me. Of course I stress about that and how her mind works - she is so young that she can't express herself properly and so I stupidly over-analyse how she is interpreting her world. Caring about ex's opinion is also, I now realise an extension of that anxiety for my dd's happiness, ie if he is saying dd is miserable because of xyz, then I feel responsible for causing it. My rational mind knows it's bullshit but I still worry I will fuck her up.

To say this is more about how my own feelings or how I wish to be seen is really not how it is.

My ex also says I'm obsessed with myself and

Posted too soon. Yes my ex and his wife also say I'm obsessed with myself. I've dozen of emails from her over the years telling me to put my child first 'for once'. I've blocked her now though!

I really don't mean it in an accusatory way, or to say that you don't care about your DD. But throughout the thread you do seem to worry excessively about how you are perceived. Which also explains how much you are affected by what your ex says and does. Why should you be mortified about what your ex does? It doesn't reflect on you at all. He's just showing himself for what he is.

And you didn't ask about therapy for your DD to deal with conflicting parents, or with how her dad is. "is there a therapy of any kind that I could engage her in to show her that she is not being failed in some way by me?" These are your words. I think you should reflect on what it is that you really want for your DD.

As an example, I sought a psychologist to assess DS when I separated from ex. My aim was to seek help to make sure DS was happy and was able to deal with the traumatic separation (DV), not to guarantee that he didn't think I had failed him.

I understand that you may have this need because of your ex badmouthing you to her. But you do have to raise above it.

I know people who worry too much about what other people think of them and they are very unhappy because of that.

I think CBT could help you deal better with how you respond to this situation.

Thanks lewji and everyone. Everything you say makes sense. I really do thank you.

I'm afraid I agree with LWEJI, OP it is why it would be good for you to have counselling as you are very concerned about what they(and now us) think of you. It isn't another critisism of you it is an observation of what you say. It is sometimes easier for others to see these things that you don't see in yourself.

I think the OP feels she needs councelling because having someone being so critical of your parenting can be a really draining and anxiety provoking feeling and can make you feel winded. Awfully draining. And you get an adrenaline reaction to being attacked and it's understandable that you start to question yourself and your choices and of course councelling might help you gain a bit of perspective on that.

Not sure I've given the impression that I'm worried what you guys think as well?! I've said I'm definitely grateful for the input and I agree with you. I think I've probably not always explained myself very well.
I have to make my dd a costume for her Xmas concert tomorrow - she has to be a rabbit. Can someone explain that to me please?! Haha

I suggest you pass your email account and mobile to a trusted family member. Ask them to change the password so you have no way of reading the messages unless they forward relevant stuff to you.

You need to cut out the noise. It's white noise and the Japanese used it in torture camps for a very good reason. It is very effective.

He is abusing you and using your daughter to do it.

If my dd feels in any way negative about me, my care of her, her time with me etc, then by definition- she wouldn't be happy.

The sooner your DD learns that neither of her parents are perfect, the better!

It is certainly not good for her to experience your fallibilities (after all, no one is perfect) while you are doing your best to convince her that her Dad is wrong about you.

Your DD needs to know that both her parents have strengths and weaknesses that they admit to her. The trick is to reinforce her own observations through your own admission - and then she is far more likely to dismiss, and even challenge, her Dads opinions about your weaknesses when they don't match her own (and your self admitted) opinions..

Hello OP, I read your post and had to reply (though apologies in advance as I haven't had a chance to read all the responses).

I had a very similar situation to yours, though my ex refused to email (he was savvy enough not to put any of his abuse in writing), instead I used to get relentless abusive phone calls on my mobile and land line whenever he felt like it.

Long story short, the behaviour peaked when my DS was 7 (he's now 12) when his dad manipulated him to the point that they were both trying to get me to give permission for him to go and live with his dad (200 miles away). My DS was constantly angry with me coming out with stuff that was obviously his dad's words (like "daddy has a right to spend quality time with me too") but I stood my ground. What I told both of them at that stage was that DS was too young to know his own mind and I wouldn't consider it until he was.

Anyway, when DS was 9 the manipulation obviously became too much for him and he came home early from a visit (having rung me to go the 2 hours to collect him) and has refused to go back since - that was 3 years ago this Christmas. Their relationship has been strained since and they still haven't seen each other. My DS suddenly saw the behaviour for what it was and couldn't take it any longer. He'd overheard his dad threatening me on the phone not to return him once too often (it took a very long time for me to get to the bottom of why he wouldn't see his dad as he couldn't articulate it at that age).

My point in telling you this story is that it's very important that you be the stable, consistent person in your daughter's life. She won't be fooled for long. Kids are much brighter than we realise.

When a partner is irrationally critical of your parenting it is difficult to know how to deal with your own real weaknesses as a parent. The type of stuff that is well within the range for 'had a happy childhood' but is not the most perfect you could be as a parent.

Thanks for the kind words everyone -Fuffy - yes he does have a CO for phone contact and yes he insists on it regardless of any mitigating factors. In fairness, I asked for it at court because when we first went to court a few years ago be used to never let me speak to dd at all. (Sometimes up to two weeks- hateful fucker) It was put into the order that dd speaks to the other parent every other day and so I was glad. What it meant however was that ex started demanding that he also speak to dd every other day even though he previously never bothered. What he does now instead is control our house with these calls and I wish I had never raised the issue. If we miss his call or don't ring him back in time he doesn't take the return call and then sends texts to say I've denied him telephone contact. If dd doesn't want to come to the phone, he says he is going to report it to the court. He requests his call at a certain time by text, but if we are on foreign time (i.e. on holiday) and don't call at the right time, he writes to say i am in beach of the order and he is filing an application for enforcement of the order.
Honestly....the phonecalls rule us.

It's completely my fault that we are so controlled by his calls because prior to my request at court, he never once bothered to call dd in between visits.

I

Ah yes! The raging ex who thinks he has a say!

Yeah I got me one of those! Dull isn't it? 11 years of it now. Been to court more times than I have had hot dinners! I too am a terrible parent. Funny then how the kids are just the most amazing kind wonderful people, I guess he thinks he has done that!

I am no contact with him. He is a bully and a pig and a ruthless conniving one at that. He also married someone who bullies me too. Incredible! There really is someone for everyone!

As I've had 11 years of it, I have detached, yes he pisses me off with his demands and his lectures but I've got used to it and don't take any notice. He has alienated his children from him because they hate how he behaves towards me. This is his punishment, he brought it on himself. I never bad mouthed him but these days I do talk to the children about how they feel about it and they hate spending time with him. Now they are older they can come and go as they like and sometimes they go but they don't stay long because it's too much for them.

In essence, what I'm saying is, live your life. Live it well with your children, do the right thing for them and for you and to hell with him. I was threatened with court because of the most ridiculous things and eventually ended up in court again but this time the judge ordered he could not make any more applications! Oh my god I cried that day with the relief.

Take care of you and your child, that is all. Your child will work it out, it just takes time. Grab your friends and have fun and love your little family. It doesn't matter about hi and what he says. Bitter little man!

Have a good life.

Actually can't believe how many women are facing similar. Makes you realise.

As for the ranty emails, yes his are always pages and pages long. If I request a change to contact arrangements one weekend for example he will send literally pages and pages about how I'm only asking for my own benefit and he would love to know why I'm interfering in his family? His newest habit is to send emails questioning my obsession with him and pleading with me to et on with my life. Hahahah!

You could also play him. As he's so keen on opposing you, if you insist on more contact, perhaps he'll drop it and if you pretend you don't want it, he'll step up.

With ex, the more I make contact difficult, the more reliable he is.

Lovely email from Iactuallydothinkso.

It's sad how much your ex is interfering with the simple enjoyment you should be able to have in being a parent (well, sometimes! I know parenting isn't all jolly japes).

I'm sure you know this already, but as much as possible just take pleasure in your dd and let her know it. There seems to be so much guilt and anxiety hovering around your parenting. I don't blame you for it at all, but children do pick up on such things. Your ex is always going to be a horrible little man. The best thing you can do is roll your eyes, go your own way, and try to derive a little dark humour from the situation.

Thanks bibliomania! I have derived many moments of dark humour along the way. These days I see him as a tiny man, one who just doesn't have any effect on me. I have never hated him because I have refused to allow myself to have any strong emotions about him.

I got on with the business of raising children and threw myself into that. There have been horrible moments along the way but at night, I can sleep.

OP, you will get through it. I believe my ex will be as awful as he is until the children are adults. The youngest is 12 and will not spend longer than a couple of days with him.

On the worst days, just remember it could be worse. You could still be with him. The kids will see a different side of life with you, one that is positive and does not slag the other parent off. Don't underestimate the power that has. Answer questions unemotionally and matter of factly.

Incidentally, I kept every single piece of court paperwork so if they ever wanted to know what really happened, they can.

Remember you are the parent they see the most and it's nurture not nature all the way!

Get tough for you and your child. Be strong in living your life the way you want and how you want. Ignore those that would bring you down. Was it your decision to leave? Yeah they don't like that.

:)