anyone gone no contact with an ex despite having children.

[nocontactforevermore]

Hi everyone. I am feeling pretty low tonight and realised that if I don't get help with this aspect of my life, i am going to wreck it, basically.

My ex and I split up years ago and its been very acrimonious. We never married and have one young dd. He has dragged me to court several times and his wife also involves herself in our situation. He uses our dd against me - for example won't let me speak to her on the phone if I've upset him in any way and gives me constant unrelenting grief about the way i parent her. I feel as though he is trying to dismantle every important relationship in her life, he reported her cm to ofsted, told cafcass I was a terrible mother, is always up at the school telling them I'm withholding information from him. His latest thing now is that he has convinced dd her best friend is bullying her and has reported that to the school as well. i get on with her mother really well and am mortified at the fall out it will cause.

I feel completely and utterly depressed by it all. Court proceedings haven't brought us any relief because he constantly attacks my parenting. If we have the slightest disagreement about any normal aspect of parenting - he will bring out the big guns and swing low every time. His court statement was the most horrific slandering of my care of our dd This weekends instalment was about how i left dd with a babysitter and that he wasn't letting me speak to dd on the phone because she didn't want to. He ranted and raved about how unhappy I make our child by leaving her with her grandparents on xyz occasions and how our holiday times are a joke because all I do is run with my mates while she left with whoever.

The problem I have is this……I just cannot get the messages out of my head. Even after 6 years, he knows exactly what he needs to say to upset me. I KNOW thats his intention, I KNOW I need to delete and laugh them off, but I just can't. Heres what I do, in exactly this order:
Read them over and over again, respond to them defending myself and sometimes engaging in a slanging match which I then beat myself up about because i have stooped to his level….read the messages over and over, question my parenting, ring my mum and friends, cry my eyes out, ask them if he's right, talk to my partner about it all night long and read and re-read those awful messages/emails again and again. A sort of gloomy silent depression settles over our house when I get these messages. If they come while I'm out at night in a restaurant or wherever….we have to go home because I am so upset. It lasts for days. My partner is so upset by it all because he says that my ex has such a hold on me after all these years and something needs to give.

I think what i'm terrified of is my ex managing to convince my dd in years to come of my perceived failures. What is normal for most people (i.e. leaving her with grandparents while we go out for a night) is being portrayed to her as neglect. I am terrified that he will normalise all these things for her and warp her against me. I question myself all the time….worry that I am a crap mother, that he's right, that I will lose my child to them. He seems to know an awful lot about my life. I can't tell if dd is complaining about me or he is grilling her. She is only 7.

I felt so anxious and stressed about all of this last year that my doc offered me anti-d's. I didn't take them but took herbal ones instead as I want to try and deal with this properly. I am very happy with my partner ( ex even demanded a CRB on him last year) but I live in fear of the next allegation….the next 'complaint' to an official body….the next friendship he destroys. I am ordinarily a strong woman, have a professional career, no history of depression etc, but this has controlled my life. A relative of mine said that I am never going to be free of him, so I need to find a way of managing how I respond to him….so thats why I'm here.

Here are my ideas so far:

1. get a pay as you go and only turn it on once a week for dd to call him on his allotted him. I can't bear to see messages and emails from him coming through to my phone as they make me so so anxious.
2. set up an alternative email address and get my partner to field emails from him/filter them. Check only once a week.
3. get some kind of therapy. I don't know who to approach for this or who I could see- I need someone to help me deal with how i respond to him.

What I would like to know, is can you see any potential pitfalls of going no contact with him? i've resisted it so far because I'm terrified he will need to get hold of me in an emergency and so I will end up checking the phone constantly anyway. I also fear that this is moving our already awful relationship 'down another level'. Can two people raise a child without speaking….ever? I mean we don't text all week usually but we are able to exchange simple messages about her school needs etc. What would I do about these situations? i guess Im trying to say that I've tried in the past to only have this kind of arrangement with him but every time he sends a nasty message, i am back at square one. Going no contact seems to be the only solution….but is it? What else could i do?

Finally, I would love someone to tell me for sure that they will not be successful in convincing my dd that she is being shortchanged by me….but she aready questions my choices. I can see already that she is being worked on and i want to try and stop this. I never ever speak badly about her dad in front of her, but she isn't daft and has picked up on the conflict from the other side ( she tells me for example that she keeps her sm happy by not mentioning my name). I feel so so sorry for her…..is there a therapy of any kind that I could engage her in to show her that she is not being failed in some way by me?

I am SO sorry about the length of this….thanks for getting this far.

I don't tell him what to do, but I've asked him certain things at the behest of DD (i.e., not to take her boots off her when its pouring down) this has only been when she is upset about it. I do agree about keeping out of the alleged bullying….I am just dreading the embarrassment of yet another mess he has caused me. ( there are too many to go into here, but he has embarrassed me so many times by going around taking issue with various people in DD's life. He is a typical coward in the sense that he will never confront people directly and will instead send protracted formal letters and 'report' them to various authorities. If he can't get at people directly he will find a way to do it formally/legally.

Thanks to other posters for advice on not defending/going NC. It has really been helpful. I have a lot of work to do on myself.

" I've asked him certain things at the behest of DD" - even this, don't get involved. You can support your dd and encourage her to speak to her dad herself but don't get drawn in because he will use it against you.

Well I've messed up this morn well and truly
DD as I've explained is being quite negative about things recently and basically making complaints about everyone and everything. She started moaning this morn and I before I knew it, I was asking her outright why she complained about her friendships to her dad because she actually loves this friend very much. I also asked her why she complained about her holiday and she did say she had said she didn't like parts of it and told her dad so. She also said she had complained about her friend but said her dad seems to 'change her words' because she didn't say it in the way he said she did. I ended up saying to dd that if she wants to complain about things she has to expect the adults in her life to act on it and therefore she might not end up not liking how they deal with it (I was referring to her dad causing trouble at the school but didn't make that explicit). I started off wanting to give her a bit of a talk on this cycle of complaining about others and ended up doing what I said I wouldn't do:/
I even said to my partner last night that I feel like I have to be careful what I say and do around my own child because she is innocently taking stuff back and it's causing murder. I KNOW this is him...not her and I would never say this to her. It seems like I've inadvertently done just that this morn though.

I want to show dd that it is unkind to talk negatively about others, especially when they have done something nice for you. (Example: DP bought her a very nice art kit recently and she couldn't get it working - she started complaining about it while he was out of the room and when I said she should be more grateful, she said she 'didn't ask him to buy it for her') I wanted this morning to show her that this isn't how she should be about others but instead I ended up ruminating about this situation at her dads. The thing is....I do want to (in the best way possible) explain to dd that if she embellishes stuff because she has an audience (ie about her friend) she could cause consequences for herself that she won't like (ie banned from playing with said friend). I don't in any way wish to make her responsible for her dads behaviour and yes I could easily ignore his abuse....but it's the actions he takes in response to what dd says. How can I get this through to dd in a kinder way? One that doesn't make her responsible for him but makes her take a little more responsibility for what she says about other people?

It didn't end well because I said she shouldn't be complaining about a trip of a lifetime. She maintained that she didn't complain about me, just that she didn't see why she had to have lessons and 'aren't holidays supposed to be about family'?
I instantly regretted it and feel awful now. Truly awful.

OK, so she didn't like the holiday. That obviously seems ungrateful to you, but if she is being honest, then you will have to accept that. Have a chat with her about what she would like to do the next time you go on holiday and see how you can compromise between what you want and what she would like to do.

A nice chat about her friend should have been fine, as you say, to get her to understand that if she doesn't mean it, she shouldn't say it. I think that the chat needs to be about consequences of actions, in a general way, rather than including her dad in it.

Skye you are right that I shouldn't have mentioned him. It's a lesson.

She said she loved the holiday (mountain biking) but hated having lessons and doesn't see why she should be away from me. I explained that she needs to learn how to keep safe, but she was having none of it. Trouble is she loves biking....so I can't see how I can give her what she wants on this one. DD has never liked being away from me. Ever.

Affirm that you understand she finds it difficult being away from you and tell her you will be more aware of it in future and that you are sorry she was upset. When she is telling you things, don't start to dismiss them or minimise them as in 'but you have to be safe' Don't tell her she shouldn't be complaining. Just because you liked the holiday doesn't mean she has to, for all you know she may have hated it and is now having to learn to put her feelings down so as to keep you happy as well. Listen to her and accept her views. Try not to criticise them, she already has one parent that doesn't accept what she says!!!

It's impossible to know your daughter's true feelings on the holiday as he has been inside her head on this one. All the 'isn't holiday about family' stuff is not coming from the 7-year-old! The 'not being away from you' is both a natural child's feeling and the infection of your XH's desire that you hold her hand at every moment throughout life so that you cannot have any other outside thoughts, activities or fun.

Try to hold onto this: how did you feel while on the holiday? Happy? How did she seem? Smiling? Miserable? Crying because she had lessons without mummy?

I imagine that your DD will wise up to this eventually and cut off information from him. As she grows, she will learn that the only response to 'How was your holiday/how are your friends?' is 'fine' because anything else causes grief. So let him complain to the school about her friend's 'bullying', but then call the mum to smooth it over and continue to encourage the friendship.

And the holiday sounds like it was great. I have forced my DC to do all sorts of stuff on holiday that they complain about. It's good for them! Your job is not to make her happy 24/7 no matter what he says. You are providing exciting opportunities for her to learn and grow, which makes you an ace mum.

Not much has been mentioned of this, but I would also see a solicitor about his bullying and bad-mouthing of you. Save some of those texts. But going as non-contact as possible sounds a really good plan.

Cjel - she did love the holiday though. She seemed happy all the time and while she did complain about the lessons (hell I complained about mine!) she was buzzing when she came back to the hotel and has learned another twist, turn, stunt, or had tackled a slope with me and DP that she previously couldn't have. I do listen to her feelings - honest!

I'm not saying she didn't love the holiday all I am saying is don't try and explain away her feelings. Let her have them, Let her know they are valid. At the moment she is learning that her feelings aren't valid and she has to have other feelings that adults are telling her she should have.

I'm not criticising you but helping you to see how important it is to let her have her own feelings, even if you don't agree with them. As you allow her to know her self she will be able to work out for herself what is right. I'm not talking about the holiday or bullying but for all things for the future.xx

I think the being away from you is her insecurity talking, but they are valid feelings, and she needs help to boost her self esteem.

Cjel is right, her feelings are based on what adults want her to feel, ask her what she wants to do on the next holiday, so she is being shown her feelings are important too.

I see what you mean. I will definitely speak to her again about the holidays. I actually promised her on the next one that we would have lessons together although practically this isn't really a great idea as we are at different levels and she is in a children's group doing kiddie activities.

Regarding the 'talking' as it were. What I have failed to do properly is talk to my dd about letting things fall out of her mouth without thinking through the consequences. The previous poster was right when they said that its a discussion in general and not one that should have been linked to her dad (even though he is the one that actually takes what she says out of context). In short my ex is a bit of an old woman and any chance he can get to have a swipe he will. He involves himself in matters that would make most men cringe (think: fell once threatened to sack a nursery worker over an imaginary nappy rash). DD doesn't yet know this aspect of her dads personality and I don't know if she ever will but as has been pointed out, I shouldn't have mentioned the stuff she is telling him. I simply want to make her a nice person and that means not saying things about people that you don't mean. Talking negatively about people is his favourite subject and I don't want that for my child. I hate to say it but she has developed a bit of a reputation in the playground for telling tales on her friends which I absolutely know is all childhood stuff.
She says no one wants to play with her but a lunchtime organiser once told me (in a nice way) that dd tends to 'mix' and that rubs other kids up.
I never get involved in squabbles but do tell her that she can't expect her friends to want to play nicely after she has told on them 5 times in one day. I should keep the issue of her tittle tattling and what is going on in her dads totally separate. I agree with that for sure.

Unfortunately you can't control what he does or says to her & I'm sure him swooping in to "protect" her by overreacting about every tiny complaint makes her feel really special & important & so she likes it despite the fallout. I think you are right to separate her own behaviour (the tale telling) from his. Just deal with her behaviour & ignore him & his completely.

Also maybe next holiday, instead of an "activity" - how about just time together taking each day as it comes?

Midwide - agree about it all making her feel special.
Re the holiday - it's an activity based holiday (sport)

Yes I understand that but if she felt she was doing classes without you too much maybe next holiday just chill together instead? But anyway, if you ignore your ex by blocking him you won't hear complaints in the first place.

What I have failed to do properly is talk to my dd about letting things fall out of her mouth without thinking through the consequences.

Sorry, but please don't do this to your DD. She'll be asked and she'll answer. She should not be put under pressure not to say some things.

In any case, ignore whatever he says and let your DD know that she can talk to you about anything, including if she has any complaints about you or anything while she's with you.

Sorry I meant consequences as in the one where she complains about friend but loves friend really. I agree though I shouldn't have said anything. I feel bloody awful today:/

Sorry you don't feel too good , but I'm afraid its all part of being a parent,

I would not try talking to and telling your dd anything! You can't 'make' her into someone she isn't an it may be a good idea to stop trying so hard. She may have what you see as negative influences from her dad but he also feels that you aren't perfect either and it could be a good time to stop trying so hard to counteract each others style.

If she is telling you she doesn't want the lessons perhaps listen to her and don't have an activity holiday?

The best way to bring up a child is to allow them to be who they want to be as far as certain things go, she will learn for herself that others don't like it at school of she behaves a certain way.
Concentrate on listening to her and really listen ! try letting her talk for several minutes without interrupting,let her know you are listening by looking at her and maybe smiling or nodding. build up her sense of self worth by validating her feelings and things will change as she learns to trust in her own feelings without having to worry you will think she is wrong. Make a huge fuss of saying positive things to her when she isn't sure, let her know you approve of what she thinks!!

You are half way there by wanting to protect her from what you see as negatives but could in some way make things worse by making this another criticism of her in the way you see her dad doing.
Try to relax and be gentle on her and yourself you are both struggling at the moment. It isn't easy but you are very aware and are being a great mumxxx

I fear you are holding yourself to a standard that no parent will meet, because he is constantly telling you that you are falling short.

So the holiday, the friend... he is creating problems where none exist. You could have taken her to Disney World, and spent every moment of every day with her, and I guarantee that he would have picked up on a complaint about the food being different, or the long flight to get there, or a rollercoaster that she found a bit frightening. And god forbid you had hired a babysitter one night to out for a special dinner with your DP! Child abuse. She hated the holiday. You only think of yourself.

Imagine you had never heard any interference on this biking holiday. You all had fun, some of it was tough but everyone learned new skills and had an overall good time. Next time it comes to plan a holiday, you would probably have asked for her thoughts anyway - more activities or a just a chilled-out trip to a beach? She would have voiced any concerns at that point.

Most of us don't do this kind of post-mortem on every parenting decision, because most of us don't have some arsehole making an issue of it. You, sadly, do. But see it for what it is: him messing with you.
And her. Don't go into a full-on analysis just because he's telling you that black is white.

You will be a happier person and a better parent with no contact!

Oh OP I feel for you I've had this shit for several years. Up until recently I tiptoed around my child, afraid to do or say anything that could be then reported back to ExH and twisted into something it isn't. It was horrible. I couldn't interact with him in any genuine way because I was always risk managing everything even though there was nothing to risk manage.That part of the problem disappeared when I insisted on written contact only. Obviously, you can't do that, but I would go NC with ExH using some of the techniques others have suggested here. He's using your DD to carry on his abuse of you (and may I say what a lovely stepmother his wife is )

Take away his power - NC - and just deal with the reports from your daughter. If it continues I'd be thinking about re-arranging contact arrangements...

I'm about to go completely NC and cutting off all contact completely.

eightandthreequarters has it spot on. Your parenting skills are being forensically examined by an emotionally abusive bully.

You need to drastically reduce contact to a bare minimum. The sooner the better.

What eight and Holdthepage said, he is looking for EVERY and ANY opportunity to twist what dd says and bully you. I can hear the words coming out of his mouth that holidays are about family being together - that is not what she said at all she just said "I didn't like the lessons" which is fair enough. I non abusive dad would have commented more along the lines of "that's a shame" end of or perhaps "it's a shame you didn't enjoy them but do you think they helped you learn new things?"

Big hugs to you and your dd.

eightandthreequarters - your post REALLY struck a chord with me. It is so true - every word of it. Part of me cannot believe i give him the headspace I do…or that I allow myself after all these years to feel so crushed by the hateful vile opinion he has of me. My biggest regret in all of it is that it affects my time with my child - and it really does. As the previous poster said, it makes me 'risk manage' everything i do with her. If we are staying out late, I worry she will tell him, if I take her into a pub instead of a restaurant, I fret she will tell him. When he is is due a phone call from dd I pull her away from whatever fun activity she is doing and make her talk, because i know if I don't I'll get a text about breaching the court order and how he will be contacting his solicitor. One night last week she called him at 8pm and was still doing her homework. I was crapping myself waiting for the nasty comment about it. He asks dd if she has washed before bed and if i've happened to have skipped her bath that night, I hold my breath praying she doesn't tell him.
The thing…..he doesn't always email to give me shit about these things, but I know that 'stores them up' because when he dragged me through the courts, he had pages and pages of petty grievances of this nature….all of which he learned about from questioning dd. He openly questions her about on the phone, knowing I'm there in the background - so while he might not send an email about it, he is letting me know that he knows I've failed again in some way. He tried to convince the court that I was in every way an unfit mother and the reasons for it would make you laugh….even though I wasn't laughing at the time. Some of the parenting crimes i had committed at the time included being unable to explain dd's tiredness after school, and moving house.

You know its funny…I always thought that once our court action was resolved, contact arrangements would be set in stone and i be released from this anxiety. I was doing really fine for months…our contact was at a minimum and life was good. But because we have had had recent words over a normal parenting issue - it has escalated into a row and taken me right back to where i was. I should have known that we CANNOT have 'normal parenting conversations' by email because the minute I present a different viewpoint (or point out the bloody obvious) he takes the lowest blows he can think of - and ones that have nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing. We never ever talk in person - he runs away from my door if i ever tried in the past. He prefers the safety and comfort of his keyboard. Now theres a coward…...
I've felt quote low this week as i've come to the realisation I am not as 'better' as I thought I was. It disappoints me and frightens me in equal measures that I have made no progress in all these years.

Anyway, more than ever now i am determined to sort this out. I absolutely don't want to lose any more of my dd's childhood obsessing over this crap or ruining my relationship with DP. I feel as though he has already robbed me of precious memories because they are all clouded with fear and unhappiness. I want to understand more of why I feel the way I do, why he has the ability to make me fear his judgement when I know there isn't anything he can do. I was always afraid he would convince a court that i was a crap mother but they weren't interested. You would think that this would have released me from the anxiety, wouldn't you? I want to know why it hasn't…perhaps theres a part of me that worries he could do it all over again….that he is still storing information, digging for dirt, planning another application.

Who knows. I actually infuriate myself to be honest…. Thank you all. You have helped immensely.

Does he have a court order allowing him to phone her when she's with you? That sounds quite intrusive. In our set up (50 50 shaped contact) we don't really do phone calls because I think it stops her settling in with the other person and makes her miss him more.

It's that old thing, we can only change the way we react to others.

Maybe have counselling? You are doing your best with her, you're not perfect and nobody is. He's the failure as a father.
Stop obsessing and stop responding to any emails he sends. He'll give up with the lack of response.

I've been called a bad mother by exH and it just makes me laugh, really, because of how pathetic he is. Try to detach and see him for the little nothing he is hunching over the keyboard mulling over little non events.

And, as I was reading the end of your OP, it strikes me that you ask about therapy to show her she is not being failed by you.
She could well have therapy to deal with the tension, and not be traumatised by it, not not to see you as the bad person. You do come across as too preocupied about yourself and how you are seen and perceived and not so much about your DD and how she's coping. You must change that frame of mind.