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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What is morally the right thing to do ? Please help - (long)

104 replies

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 09:56

I need some advice here on whether to take my exP to court to claim half of his assets. We were together for 5.5yrs and now have a DS who is 11months. 2.5yrs ago I gave up my job earning approx £45,000 to go and live and work at his house and holiday rental place in France. I basically built up and ran the business, doing all the bookings, admin, built and maintained a website, produced all the brochures, did all the marketing etc., maintained the gardens, cleaned the holiday houses etc. and it gets about £15,000pa in bookings. When I became pg he was over the moon even though we were having problems but throughout the pg carried on drinking/driving and disappearing for hours on end leaving me stranded, all sorts of other stuff. At 8mnths pg I went into early labour down to the stress of it and had to drive myself and him to the hospital 15km away because he was too drunk to drive (this was about 4pm). He left me there distraught still having contractions a few hours later and drove home still drunk. When I got out of hospital 3 days later he told me to leave and get the overnight boat back to the UK. I told him I had nowhere to go and eventually left on the Wednesday, staying with some friends for a week or two until I could organise somewhere to live. I had decided anyway that I couldn?t stay in France so it was not only his decision that we parted. I have used up all but about £1,200 of my savings (about £16,000 in total) paying rent, buying all the stuff for DS, living etc. and am now on income support etc. totalling about £9,000pa out of which I have to pay my mortgage, bills, food, all stuff for DS. He bought the pram and gave me £400 last year but has now taken back the car I was using (even though he has 3 other vehicles he can drive) and has refused to help me to pay for a nursery for two mornings a week (£16pw per session). I was about to just write it all off and accept I?d have to manage on my own because I didn?t want things to turn sour and so prevent DS from having a relationship with ex-P that wasn?t in an atmosphere of acrimony but I?ve just found out that although he said he?s been too busy to come over and see DS (he?s seen him about 3 days in the last 5 months) that he has actually been over to the UK twice in the last month to see his new girlfriend but hasn?t even popped in to see his son (he practically has to go past the door to get to her). He doesn?t know I know about her or his visits. He met her on an exclusive holiday he paid about £3,000 for (which he found time for ? 3.5wks) and I?m told they are planning a long sailing tour around the greek islands. I really am not bitter that he has a new relationship but I?m beginning to think he doesn?t care for his son at all and so will never do the right thing either financially or in terms of seeing DS. I?ve just worked out that his assets minus my assets net of mortgages are about £500,000. Should I get a solicitor involved and try and get half? I am struggling with the morality of it, whether it?s the right thing to do. If I could possibly manage with nothing from him I would do it but my situation is affecting my son?s welfare and I know I won?t be able to give him everything he needs. I am also worried about alienating his family who have been fantastic and really want to keep in touch. Sorry for the enormously long post ! Any advice would be really appreciated ? I want to do what is right morally and for DS.

OP posts:
crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 09:58

sorry, posted again - think my pound signs went funny !

I need some advice here on whether to take my exP to court to claim half of his assets. We were together for 5.5yrs and now have a DS who is 11months. 2.5yrs ago I gave up my job earning approx 45,000 to go and live and work at his house and holiday rental place in France. I basically built up and ran the business, doing all the bookings, admin, built and maintained a website, produced all the brochures, did all the marketing etc., maintained the gardens, cleaned the holiday houses etc. and it gets about 15,000pa in bookings. When I became pg he was over the moon even though we were having problems but throughout the pg carried on drinking/driving and disappearing for hours on end leaving me stranded, all sorts of other stuff. At 8mnths pg I went into early labour down to the stress of it and had to drive myself and him to the hospital 15km away because he was too drunk to drive (this was about 4pm). He left me there distraught still having contractions a few hours later and drove home still drunk. When I got out of hospital 3 days later he told me to leave and get the overnight boat back to the UK. I told him I had nowhere to go and eventually left on the Wednesday, staying with some friends for a week or two until I could organise somewhere to live. I had decided anyway that I couldn?t stay in France so it was not only his decision that we parted. I have used up all but about 1,200 of my savings (about 16,000 in total) paying rent, buying all the stuff for DS, living etc. and am now on income support etc. totalling about 9,000pa out of which I have to pay my mortgage, bills, food, all stuff for DS. He bought the pram and gave me 400 last year but has now taken back the car I was using (even though he has 3 other vehicles he can drive) and has refused to help me to pay for a nursery for two mornings a week (16pw per session). I was about to just write it all off and accept I?d have to manage on my own because I didn?t want things to turn sour and so prevent DS from having a relationship with ex-P that wasn?t in an atmosphere of acrimony but I?ve just found out that although he said he?s been too busy to come over and see DS (he?s seen him about 3 days in the last 5 months) that he has actually been over to the UK twice in the last month to see his new girlfriend but hasn?t even popped in to see his son (he practically has to go past the door to get to her). He doesn?t know I know about her or his visits. He met her on an exclusive holiday he paid about 3,000 for (which he found time for ? 3.5wks) and I?m told they are planning a long sailing tour around the greek islands. I really am not bitter that he has a new relationship but I?m beginning to think he doesn?t care for his son at all and so will never do the right thing either financially or in terms of seeing DS. I?ve just worked out that his assets minus my assets net of mortgages are about 500,000. Should I get a solicitor involved and try and get half? I am struggling with the morality of it, whether it?s the right thing to do. If I could possibly manage with nothing from him I would do it but my situation is affecting my son?s welfare and I know I won?t be able to give him everything he needs. I am also worried about alienating his family who have been fantastic and really want to keep in touch. Sorry for the enormously long post ! Any advice would be really appreciated ? I want to do what is right morally and for DS.

OP posts:
Pierre · 08/07/2006 10:25

Is he French or English?

edam · 08/07/2006 10:45

Oh, I'd definitely go for taking your money back. Some of the total is the result of your effort and your contribution. Plus he has a moral and legal duty to pay for the upkeep of his child. So I'd take every penny you could get and use it to support your ds.

Fluffybubble · 08/07/2006 10:58

Poor you , what a s**t.

You sound like you are doing really well putting your life back together. Ultimately, though, you need to be able to eat and to pay the bills.

Why don't you make an appointment to see a solicitor (1st one is usually free) to suss out your options, then go from there.

I ended up taking my ex to court re money because he honestly did not think that he had any responsibility beyond the minimum csa amount. My ds was very young when he left too. My ex loves our ds but honestly doesn't relate money to his son's welfare . He thinks that wanting to see him is enough (I don't know where he thinks clothes, shoes, food etc materialise from!!). Anyway, the point I am trying to get to is that I eventually got cross and decided that ex should be financially responsible for ds too...

If you have a good relationship with your ex's family maybe you can be honest with them. The way your have explained your circumstances here makes it clear that you are not money-grabbing for the sake of it, am sure they will understand.

Good luck .

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 11:16

He's english. Appt with solicitor was going to be my next move but I don't think they'll tell me if its morally right or not hence this posting. I wish I had enough money to just walk away... . I know it'll be a huge fight and I am exhausted from it all already ! If i can be sure I'm in the right it'll give me a bit of strength and if its not the right thing to do I can walk away and just manage and not feel I've let DS down.

OP posts:
rickman · 08/07/2006 11:17

Message withdrawn

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 11:19

Not married, engaged but we postponed the wedding because I had a bit of an accident (that exP was responsible for) that smashed my face up so we were waiting until I'd had that repaired but never go around to rebooking it.

OP posts:
Pierre · 08/07/2006 11:25

If he is in France, you have a snowball in hell's chance of recovering the money via the UK. I would see a UK lawyer and then contact an English speaking (if your french is not too hot, apologies if you are fluent!) French lawyer. Where were you in France? I assume your child was born here.

Ilive and got divorced in France. The French take it all very seriously (call it "abandoning the family) but getting the money from the UK is quite a different matter.

You will be awarded more in the UK. But unless he has a UK revenue, you are highly unlikely to get a centime.

Contact me if I can be of any help.

gggglimpopo at hotmail dot com

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 11:30

His business is registered in England, apart from two houses in France the rest of his propery and assets are in the UK too. I believe he is saying to french authorities that he isn't actually resident in France only a holidaymaker.

OP posts:
vitomum · 08/07/2006 11:31

you sound quite amazingly fair and reasonable given the circumstances and what you have been through. I think what is utterly imoral is the current situation where you and your ds are struggling. I think any legal action you can take to rectify that would be the correct thing to do as it looks as though your ex-p will no take on his obligations / responsibilities to ds voluntarily. It is entirely possible that you will be able to keep the inlaws on side - remember they will not want to alienate you either as they are dependant for you for contact with their grandson as it does not sound like they will be able to rely on their son to faciltate that. best of louck x

glitterfairy · 08/07/2006 11:31

Look at it another way I think. Is it morally right to have a child and then not to contribute to his or her financial or economic well being? My answer is no. This is not really your moral dilema it should be his! I would not beat myself up over that part of it but get on with making him be a morally responsible human being instead of a morally repugnant one.

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 11:37

ExP's dad just rung up to see how we were doing. I don't want him to know what his son has been like it'll break his heart. I hate having to pretend everything is fine to him though, its so dishonest but I don't want to upset him, he has enough to cope with as ExP's mum has alzheimers.

OP posts:
warthog · 08/07/2006 13:17

ccm, your xp has treated you really, really badly. and now he's not taking any responsibility! i'd definitely try to get some help for bringing up your child. and i'd let his father know how he's acting too. it's not right to lie to him to spare him pain, you can tell him in a gentle way. i think they'd want what's right for their grandchild and if that means making him pay child support and visiting his ds when he's in the uk, that can't be a bad thing. your xp is behaving abominably, and while i respect that you don't want to cause upset, HE'S the one doing it. this just isn't right.

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 17:37

Thanks everyone. Does anybody think a solicitor and claiming some of his assets is not the right thing?

OP posts:
saadia · 08/07/2006 18:07

I think he owes you something for what you've contributed to his business and suffered in your own loss of earnings. This is quite apart from the fact that he is morally required to support his ds.

suejonez · 08/07/2006 18:15

sorry don't have any better suggestions than what has already been said. But just have to post about you worriying about whether going for share of his assets or support is moral?!

You're not going to get very far with an ex-P like that if you're worried about whats moral. Shouldn;t think he knows what the word means, does he?

You only concern is your son, your Dp can fight his own corner. And the law that fathers (and mothers) have to support their children financially was written because it is expected by sciety at large that they do - thats moral enough for me.

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 19:17

No, he has a very strange sense of morality if one at all but I think he's very good at convincing me he is right and sometimes it is hard not to believe it. In his view I chose to be in this situation because he asked me to go back to France when DS was a few weeks old but we hadn't sorted anything out, he was (and still is I think) still drinking heavily. Thank god I had the strength not to go back, I'd be a basket case by now if I had. He thinks (or tells me) that I have the benefit of being with DS every day so I should expect hardship and be glad of it.

OP posts:
vitomum · 08/07/2006 19:31

sounds like he is quite emotionally abusive towards you CCM

crazychilledmummy · 08/07/2006 19:52

vitomum, thats very astute and I haven't really realised how much until recently. I think that's why I'm not too upset he's met someone else - I actually feel sorry for her and hope she is strong. I just hope she doesn't go through what I have with him. The one thing that makes me so sad is how unhappy I was when I was pregnant. It should have been the happiest time of my life, we'd waited 5 years for a baby but he was so horrible and all the time I thought I was going to affect DS by being so upset. Luckily he is gorgeous and the most chilled out little boy you could imagine. .

OP posts:
vitomum · 09/07/2006 10:36

i think that's quite common CCM that women don't recognise abusive behaviour (or the full extent of it) until they are out of the realtionship. You sound very caring (and strong) and like someone who takes on a lot of responsibility for other peoples feelings (as we women are 'trained' to do!). I hope you can remember that your own are just as important as everyone else's, as is your future and financial stability. I am sure that if you do decide to go down the route of pursuing your ex-p for what you are entitled to then you will find MN a good place to get support and perspective - as of course you will if you don't go down that route. I know what you mean about the pregnancy. mine was also not how i wanted it to be and i felt very alone and usupported (because dp was working all the time). Nothing really in comparison to what you went throught but i can empathise - it is such a difficult and vulnerable time and yet one which we have so many expectations for too. I have also got a lovely ds (just turned 2!). he is very good natured but more teraway than chilled out!

fattiemumma · 09/07/2006 10:46

you need to get a solicitor involved asap. he cleatrly has no wish to be a father to yoru child and as such wil never worry abou the financial implecations of bring up a child you had whilst under the impression he wanted too.

if you choose to go it alone then more power to you but i think it is right and fair to expect him to help pay for a child that he helped create.
i also think, child aside, thatyou helped build that business and it is as much yours as it is his, why should your hard work go to pay for his life with a new woman.

go get all you can from the t*sser

crazychilledmummy · 09/07/2006 12:33

Thanks so much everyone. I have decided I will go and see a solicitor. I'm not sure whether he will think I have a claim as some of his assets he had before he met me (not the french business though or 3 of his houses). I'm going to ring first thing tomorrow and make an appt.
Vitomum - my DS can be tearaway too sometimes.
Fattiemumma - your last line made me laugh out loud. Exactly what my mates say too !
I'm sure ExP will think I'm just being vindictive although how he can say that when I've been doing his accounts, still updating and hosting the website I've no idea but I've decided not to care now. I am in the right and I'll do this for my gorgeous DS's future. Have decided that if solicitor advises to go ahead I'm going to let ExP's sister know what I'm doing before she hears from him. I think I'll probably copy my post to her and give her the option of reading it or not. If she doesn't want to know then that is her choice - she does have a lot on her plate at the mo. Thanks so much everyone for the support - I'll let you know how I get on. Fingers crossed I have a case...

OP posts:
Pages · 09/07/2006 19:53

Hi there. You definitely have a case and a solicitor will tell you the same thing. You sound like most women, trying not to upset anyone rather than think of yourself. But if not for yourself than for your child you need to claim what is rightfully yours. It is not immoral to stand up for yourself and your child.

Once you have seen a solicitor your ex-P will have to get his own solicitor, they will thrash it out and the judge will decide. The legal outcome will relect the moral outcome in the end. That's why there are always two sides in a legal argument. Your ex-P will probably be surprsied that you have stood up to him as he sounds like an immature p**t who is used to getting everything he wants but he will respect you in the long run, even if he is not happy about it. Good luck!

fattiemumma · 09/07/2006 23:40

glad i made you smile.

Pages · 10/07/2006 06:05

Sorry didn't read your post properly and didn't realise most of the assets were in France. Pierre obviously knows the score. Apologies for my idealistic post, but morally I still think you are right to ty and claim for what should be rightfully yours.

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