Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Keep forgetting to put their hats on...

I'm still here :) I think everyone is Christmassy busy (whether looking forward to it or quietly dreading it)

But for me things have quietened down hugely since leaving. Am surprised but pleasantly so. My fw is still saying all the right things about how he's abused me, and how shocked his is at his behaviour, and how he needs to work on himself.... I'm not sure whether to believe him or now, but either way I've said to myself I'm making no plans or decisions or anything until I've finished the freedom programme which starts in January. So that's 12 weeks before I need to think. So for now I'm just treading water, enjoying the peace of being on my own, learning to make my own decisions and find my own way, enjoying the freedom of doing whatever I want. And if his revelations are genuine then he should be happy and willing to wait as long as I need. Occasionally I need to remind him of my boundaries but so far he has respected them instantly.

Not sure what to think really, but have decided I don't need to know. Time will tell. Healing myself is the main aim for now.

hey ladies. freedom tastes good! I have been at work today and the same tomorrow. DC's are with my mum and very happy. I have had formal communications with FW but this evening he was looking for something and continuously text me about it (I borrowed it, there are 2, I left 1 at a friends, he can't look for things unless there is someone to blame) but I didn't get sucked in...much.
I am back home with the parents and staying then until I move house. no more work, phew! one other task completed.
the next hurdle I face is dropping DC's off at FW's parents on Saturday. Should be ok, if a little sad for us all.
Also the list of 'other' things I need to do to move is endless and over whelming but I am currently ignoring it until absolute necessary....and until my normal energy levels return.
Fwittery has been minimal but i am not assuming it has ended at all.

Lovely to hear from you tweedle. Your parents sound great. How long will the dc be with fw's parents? Although it'll be horrible to drop them off, the time on your own may well allow you to recharge your batteries.

bounty lovely post from you, am so glad you are feeling better, and that FW is respecting your boundaries for the main part. You need that space to heal, you are right.

And glad you are away from your horrible situation, tweedle. I think you are right, the FWittery will continue (and probably get worse) over the holiday period. But you are in a better situation to deal with it now.

Hi everyone. Not sure I'll sleep until I get this out. I'm officially dreading Christmas. Or at least the run up to it. Might be a bit long... but here goes. DD (9) was due to be at her Dad's for Christmas. Since then all manner of things have happened, including her voicing her concerns, and a referral to SS. Overnight contact was therefore stopped, and their relationship went downhill when he refused to see or speak to her, and then she refused to see or speak to him, even with me there. Last weekend I therefore planned to take DD away to be with my family (both sides live a long way away), and I told FW.

Fast forward a couple of days, all of a sudden she's happy in his company, wants to stay overnight and wants to spend Christmas with him. I've put my foot down and said 'no'. I do think she would like to see him on Christmas Day, but think it's mainly about keeping him happy, and the degree of emotional manipulation he's been placing on her.

He has apparently now told her that if we go away she must tell me every 10 minutes without fail that she wants to go home. She should phone him if I do start taking her in the car so he can drive over and get her. She doesn't know what to do. She seems fine with going away, but is now scared that if she doesn't do what he says, he'll be angry.

There is so so much more I've found out. He's been slagging off my family (which is wonderful), trying to drive a wedge between them and DD. He's told her I'm a bully. He's going to call the police if I try to abduct her (and has used those words to her). He's obsessively telling her how much he loves and misses her, how miserable he is whenever she's not there. She's now having trouble sleeping yet again.

I'm cross with myself for encouraging them back together, only for him to abuse his position yet again.

I'm scared. That he'll do something awful to prevent us from going. That he'll keep on at her so that she has a miserable time. That I'll give up, relent, and we'll all have a crap Christmas. That he'll refuse to let her leave with me after he sees her on the weekend. That she'll phone him when we're leaving because she's more scared of him and knows I'll just 'fix' it. That I'm trying to manipulate her just like he does.

Head's all over the place. I've managed to excuse myself from this miserable marriage, but she's still left with the onslaught.

Knew it would be long. Feel better already for getting it out.

Hi noregrets, I think he can't stop you unless you are leaving the UK, which I presume you are not. You are the parent with residence, SS are involved as regards his contact with her, so I think the police would give him short shrift. However, I am wondering if it is worth calling 101 and talking to someone there about his threats to restrict your movements. Legally, if he wants to stop you, he needs to raise a court action. So, he is acting out with the law.

The second people I would suggest calling are Women's Aid, as he is continuing to abuse both you and DD. Other posters on here have said that WA provide support and counselling for children of abusive relationships, and in this case, DD is being emotionally abused directly. I would suggest over the longer term, DD needs some counselling and support independently.

Finally, you do need to go as planned and offer alternative contact. This is a reasonable solution, more than reasonable given his behaviour. If you do not go, he will know he can bully you into doing what he wants and that will be a harder position to come back from. Somehow you need to have an age appropriate chat that his behaviour is not appropriate or reasonable, and that she should not feel guilty for travelling.

Chat with dd, I mean

I'm still here, just lurking mostly.

noregrets, I agree with quiet that you need to get support for DD (and you) since he's still being abusive. Sadly he may always be like this so the sooner there's a coping mechanism in place for her, the better really. Try to carry on with your plans since derailing them is exactly what he wants.

Thanks both. No, we're not going abroad. I've done a bit of research, and there is indeed nothing really he can do to prevent us from going. But he could cause a scene, or get to DD emotionally to make it hard...

DD is seeing the school nurse for chats, and I'm hoping that they will refer her on for further support. I have also explained that it's unacceptable. I always feel like I'm saying bad things about her Dad, and don't want her to feel split down the middle. But it's so important for her to understand. I've told her that doing things because you're scared of someone is not OK. It's not OK with her Dad, and when she's older, it's not OK with her boyfriend.

I think I'm the parent with residence... I'm the one who looks after her. But we both have PR, and there is no residence order in place. Therefore legally I don't seem to have any different rights to him. I've already called 101 - even with SS involvement, if he refuses to return her, and they find her safe and well, they won't do a thing.

I'm considering not even taking her to see him tomorrow. I don't want to be seen as unreasonable, but I know that he will be so manipulative, and if I go too, she'll probably witness an argument. It will mean that they don't see each other before we go away, but surely that's better than exposing her to the stress?

Yes, I meant the 101 more if he turns up at your house and tries to stop you leaving.

How do they define safe and well? If you are on the doorstep and DD wants to come with you, and he is stopping her, is that safe and well??

Have you taken any legal advice here?

Hi Noregrets, I've had lots of fun and games with my ex along the same lines. Consider it an incentive to get yourself sorted legally with a residence order if at all possible - it will ultimately help you towards this goal if he starts mucking around at this point.

Do you have a solicitor? Any chance you can ask advice about tomorrow's contact? In my own situation I've tried extremely hard to comply with all contact arrangements, because any deviation gives so much ammunition to my ex. I can totally understand why you don't want to leave room for further manipulation of your dd, though.

If it helps at all, once when my ex was refusing to return my dd (well, he hadn't explicitly said no, he just refused to answer any of my calls, texts or emails about arranging a return handover) I asked a police officer to accompany me to collect dd, explaining I was worried about my ex acting abusively (true). So they weren't retrieving her exactly, just stopping him breaching the peace while I turned up to collect dd.

Your ex will quite likely use this window of opportunity to make life difficult for you. Two possible consolations:

1. keep a record. If you end up in court, he'll have shown himself up to be problematic. It won't help his case.

2. once this is past, you have a good long stretch with your dd, during which she'll have the chance to relax. If he calls her, I'd make sure that the phone is on loudspeaker. If he turns manipulative (and he almost certainly will), you can stop the call. Alternatively (or as well), afterwards encourage your dd to think through why he's speaking in that way. You don't need to bad-mouth him, just ask quietly, "When he says X, how does it make you feel? Why do you think he wants you to feel that way?" You don't need to provide all the answers - you'll be surprised how much she can work out.

Not much to add noregrets as everyone else has said it so well. The only other thing with regards to being concerned about bad-mouthing her Dad all the time. I think it is better if you can bad-mouth the behaviour rather than the man. That makes it less personal to her. So instead of saying he is being unfair to you, say that his behaviour is being unfair to you. Sounds awful for both of you :(

Im still here winning the award for top lurker and procrastinator.

Ive been reading as much as possible about making big life choices. Which when you have been in a relationship for 23 years it is massive and scary.
I keep having flashes of the past when he was being abusive but I wasn't aware it then.
I'm still having my lips flicked when im trying to sleep. Still being made to feel not quite good enough. I KNOW im going to regret staying so long yet telling him.i want a divorce just wont come out of my mouth.
I feel like ive tried everything to change my mind set butnothing seems to be working.

boiledfrog, don't be hard on yourself. It is, as you say, massive. Have you looked into practicalities of leaving at all? When I first looked at local houses to rent, for example, I had no intention of taking it any further, just that it was nice to dream. Same with working out how much money I would have to live on.

noregrets, that sounds awful.

I too have been worrying that I have saved myself only to leave the DCs to face the abuse alone. Of course, the reality is that when I lived in the same house I still couldn't always be there to protect them. Today at handover, DD3 was crying, "Mummy!" over and over. Walking down the road away from my house, the same. Of course, it's the sort of thing 3yos do at handovers. If it were her nursery, I would leave her in total confidence - and if I couldn't, I'd change childcare provider. But I don't trust FW to help her feel secure. And there's not a lot I can do about that.

bibliomania - good advice to get sorted legally. I have finally sent off the divorce paperwork which has been unfinished for weeks. Your post gave me the nudge I needed!

Hi can I update?

Well I had the termination, I really didn't want to be still stuck with Him and it's awful for dd to have him let alone another child having him as their dad.

He wouldn't even pick me up after the prick.

Still having contact problems dd refused to go last Sunday but is going tomorrow with ds as they're going to the cinema. We are still not speaking and its lovely.

I really miss his eldest son, he was around my house quite a lot he lives with FW so was here most weekends and I'm really sad we're not all going to have Christmas together like was planned.

But Christmas just me and dc will be great! Have plans involving jack sparrow all afternoon and dc favourite food BBQ chicken and mac and cheese Mmm!

Hi ladies, hope you are all ok.

I have name changed due to a outed risk, so long time lurker.

I need some words of wisdom.

To cut an incredibly long story short, I am having to go south for Christmas as my mum is not particularly well, so dd will not see exfw on christmas day. It is a 160 mile jpurney and as I will be cooking dinner decided it would be easier to stay until boxing day when we will see fw and she will be staying there until the new year as I have to work.

However dd (who is 8) is not coping v well with the arrangement. We have had tears with her saying she will not see daddy xmas day and is v sad about it. I have tried to explain to her that nanny is not v well and can't travel here (original arrangement) and nanny needs to be near her own hospital and doctors just in case.

I am not sure what fw has said to dd out of ear shot of me, but in front of me has been supportive.

Today she made a Christmas card at school. When I looked inside she put "merry christmas mum and dad love dd." Further down she wrote "I am sad" and on the other page she drew a diagram like mum--dadbroken heart--dd.

I feel like I have had my heart ripped out and stamped on. I gave her a huge cuddle and again explained nanny is not well and cannot risk travelling. I said if I could fix it I would but can't. She was pretty upset when fw picked her up, but again he was supportive.

I am dreading christmas this yr. It is the first year since the split so I expected it, just not sure how to handle it.

Sorry for the ramble, has helped to vent a touch

boiledfrog I lurked for 12 months and then spent another 9 months actually trying to go, including 3 failed attempts when I got talked back in. It is a huge life changing decision, and part of the EA is that we are not used to being allowed to make decisions and so it does not come easily or naturally. There is nothing wrong with spending as long as you need thinking, reading and musing on here.

muff thinking of you. I know it was a big decision and how mean of him to not support you at all. Hope you enjoy your Christmas day.

Oh possibly that would rip my heart out too. I suppose the 'good' thing is that DD is obviously feeling able to let her emotions and feelings out rather than bottling it up. That is probably healthier in the long run. And I'm sure she's angry at the situation rather than you. Could you agree to Skype FW on Christmas day so at least she 'sees' him? Perhaps he could watch her opening a present or the like. The other option would be to travel to your Mum's on Christmas morning so that she can see her Dad first thing (although suspect there might be tears as you leave). Or how about starting a new Christmas Eve present tradition involving FW? I've not figured out who you are/were so cannot work out whether you are on friendly enough terms with FW to do something like this, so it might not be appropriate.

boiled frog do be gentle with yourself, its fine to take as long as it takes. I found writing a diary every now and again really helped me to hear my voice and start saying things aloud. Now I've been out for six months it really helps to read back through the diary, and I can now see bits I hadn't really understood at the time. But personally counselling and being listened to there was the bit which really helped me.

You don't need to say you want a divorce at first, you could just say you want some time apart, or something much lower key.

I found planning the practicalities really helped me get concrete and more confident too. And out, its nowhere near as difficult as it is living with a FW. Even the really difficult bits.

Muff welcome back. It must have been so difficult, do hope you're ok. I've been thinking of you.

Possibly it is awful when our kids are so sad. My DC are really struggling at the moment, and it breaks my heart when DS (11) sits with quiet tears just pouring down his face. Something which has helped him a tiny bit has been me saying that sometimes there are times of life which just are really sad. That being sad isn't the wrong way to feel, even though its Christmas, it is a sad time of life. Somehow giving him space and 'permission' to feel ok being sad seems to take some pressure off. Might just be him, but it might make a tiny difference for your DD. We also used to do a gift on Christmas Eve to take the pressure off on Christmas Day, that could be an option for her to share a bit with FW?

Here DC are going off for Christmas with FW tomorrow. Its my first Christmas without them, and I am feeling rather tearful.

It wasn't that difficult once I made my mind up, and then when he wouldn't pick me up (they don't allow you to go home unless you have someone picking you up your not even allowed to call a taxi) I have really flushed him out. I now will have had by next wk 3 weeks off work because of this loosing a weeks worth of money and having 2 weeks of shit stat sick pay for next pay day which I need for dd's birthday. Is he helping out? Oh no he walks off scot free and hasn't lost anything

I am so angry with all he has done to me and put me through.

redmaple bless you that must be hard. I do think we build christmas up so much that the pressure is unbearable. I guess its drummed in from an early age christmas is about families and when the family is broken, it just sends us in a tail spin.

The christmas eve present is a great idea, but fw is working and leaves at 6.30am. Also traffic will be bad. I need to negotiate half the M25 which is interesting at the best of times. However with the storm that the weather people are threatening I may have to leave it until then anyway.

I will think about the suggestion though x

Well done, Muff - your Christmas plans sound great!

redmaple, I think giving them permission to feel sad is important. It is sad: we feel sad, too, for the loss of what should have been. It's only natural, heartbreaking though it is.

My DCs are having two Christmas Days: one on Sunday with FW and one on the 25th with me. That's how FW has sold it to them, and I think (unusually!) he's done a good job there. They seem very happy with the idea, anyway!

Thanks, I hope everyone else is looking forward to christmas?

Can't sleep. Horrible cold has been dragging me down all week.

Maybe useful thinking time, though. Am finally facing up to the 8-day stretch that FW is having the DCs, second half of this holiday. 7 days of which is a trip abroad. Suddenly thought: I could keep DD3 back, say she's not going. I definitely think it's too long for her to be away from me. He booked it a while back and although technically he asked me first, he didn't wait for long enough for me to get the message before booking it!

Please tell me it wouldn't be unreasonable to tell him that DD3 will not be going with him?

I'd like to find out a bit about the trip, too, but I'm not sure if it's any of my business. I suppose hearing which place(s) he'll be staying in from him (have only found out country from a DC!) might be stuff I could expect to know?

I maybe should've confronted this earlier. Have had my head resolutely in the sand...

I'm up to Charlotte

I think that asking someone really should involve waiting for their answer

I presume he 'asked' by email? How long did he give you to reply, and did he follow it up with a text or 2nd email? I'd have thought that really booking flights abroad with DC should involve a verbal conversation.

So yes he acted out of order in my opinion. And absolutely definitely you have a right to know where they are going and a schedule of where they will be going and who they are staying with. Not least so that if there is a problem that you know how to contact them. And 8d is a lot longer (I think?) than your DC are used to being away from you so I presume they will want to talk to you during the week away.

Your previous posts suggest that DD3 is not really happy at drop offs at the moment anyway so I think that this would be my starting point. That 8 days with no physical contact with you, and in a place outside the UK that you can't just drive to collect her if needed is too long at this stage. The older DC can go if they want to (but with your full knowledge as to where they will be and when - and this should be disclosed by your FW not from the DC)