Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Great, thanks for the feedback. I shall send it as is, I think - have mentioned their best interests and reasonableness enough times in previous emails!

Gosh lots going on. Charlotte stay strong and send the email, it sounds reasonable.

I am a newbie here having posted for first time last week. I tried to open up dialogue with my FW yesterday - talked about how I was unhappy and he is too and I can't go on in stoney silence, I said that I wanted him to be happy and me to be happy too. I now feel utterly fucking hoovered back in.

Wrt splitting he said how he will basically end up struggling financially and that me and my D(but NPD)M will turn the children against him and how he has no support or friends to talk to about how things are at the moment, how he'll end up all alone and unloved, how he can't even rely on the support of his own DM as she is in hospital and has her own depression to deal with ....basically that everything is in my control and how I'll be ruining his life was what I came away with, I end up feeling guilty for wanting to kick him when he's down. Much from him about how he has zero self esteem and he's killing himself keeping up a chipper appearance at work.

He said the comments he made at Relate about not liking my friends or family were 'throw away' comments but I've latched on to them (...well I want an H who is interested in my life and who I interact with) so he can't talk to me about 'any of the big stuff' anymore. I apparently just turn it all around against him, my fault for being cleverer than him apparently.

I feel stuck with a grumpy, negative man with a chip on his shoulder about everything and I want to scream and stamp on his tiny violin until it's smashed to smithereens . I just feel like I'm stuck with my choice to have married him and feeling quite despondent and hopeless.

We have both been invited to a drinks party on Friday. I asked if he wanted to come and got: 'why would I want to go out with people who hate me' (this is his madness, they are mutual friends) so I will go alone. I want a partner who likes me, is interested in me and my life and wants to spend time with me, there was no mention of how much he loves me or wants to stay with me in the discussion. AIBU to feel cross and stressed?

Good luck Charlotte! Go for it.

Insignificantother - I want a partner who likes me, is interested in me and my life and wants to spend time with me, there was no mention of how much he loves me or wants to stay with me in the discussion.
You are asking for reasonable things.

All his reasons for why you shouldn't leave are his problems. He's looking for you to fix his life by staying where you are, staying miserable. He doesn't care at all about how you feel, just how he feels.

You are not stuck. You still have all the same choices. But now you have the additional knowledge that you can't talk reasonably with your H about it because he'll turn it back onto making you feel guilty. It sounds like a miserable situation - and it sounds like he has no interest in changing things - you are not selfish at all for not wanting to stay like that.

practical advice needed here
OP has fled as an emergency and SS being not entirely helpful.
Hopefully WA will help but if anyone has anything else to add that might help

Sorry yo crash thread btw. sounds like the right approach to me charlotte. He is assuming that uf he can get it how he wants it before mediation then he can keep it that way. but is isn't about what he wants.

charlotte I'm trying to absorb some tips from your emails. I think I've been too nice recently and he's taking advantage.

insignifcant his happiness is not ultimately your responsibility.

tweezle no chance of going to your parents now?

Insignificant other - I feel you totally! Your words are my words about 8 months ago. Despair, mistiness, confusion, AIBU's. You are not. Your expectations of people are valid. We all have standards and expectations which we hold dear and it our RIGHT to have those.
Well I cannot leave until the 23rd as I have a staff party but the kids are going to his parents next Friday. So I am sorting of moving out then. I have spoken to my DM who has said we can stay with them for the 10 days between when I get back and when I move. Going to be taking the kids. Nit of a hassle as I will have to drive back and forth (about 2.5hours) but it will be best as I will know that when I do eventually leave on the 23rd - that will be it and the next time I walk through the door will be to move house. That will be a nice feeling.

Well I suppose the 23rd will be a lovely Christmas present although I expect you might not find it as 'happy' as you expect it to be. Don't mean to be negative but I thought I'd be walking on air as I walked out but instead crawled out sobbing :( A few days later and I felt a little better but I suppose I just wanted to warn you.

Tweedle Bounty just read the last two comments above and thought about it being positive when you leave but not exactly happy. Reminds me of giving birth for the first time, where I (naively) was expecting something happy clappy/earth motherish. First inkling it might be a bit different was a mate from antenatal class who gave birth two days before leaving a woozy message on the answerphone saying, Don't let them take the pain relief from you, its always darkest before the dawn and its all worth it in the end...' The leaving process is like that too. Not necessarily easy or pain-free, but worth it.

Insignif I can completely see why you feel as you say. But it isn't in his interest to hear you, really I think he's interested in control and in his agenda being the one that rules. You are thinking of yourselves as two equal partners, and he is thinking of you as a minion whose job is to meet his needs. Or thats how it comes over to an outsider. Have you read the Lundy book, which for me was mindblowing?

Insig are we married to the same FW??
Seriously though, those lines are so familiar! If you have got to the point of feeling the need to go, be strong and don't let him suck you back in. I told my FW in January, but allowed him to convince me I was destroying him / our family / the universe and that everything could be better if I only gave him a chance. Oh and it was all works / his fathers / my / his mothers deaths fault that he was like he is. Not him at all...
In October I realised that he'd hoodwinked me. I'd spent another 10 months miserably trying to make a difference while he just sank further and further into bitter grumpiness on account of all the baggage he carries around.
Eventually I had half-term looming. The kids were going to be staying with my family as I didn't have enough leave so it would just be us. Then at the end of the week there was a trip away with a large group of (mainly my) friends and kids for a couple of days. I suddenly realised that the idea of both filled me with absolute dread. I just couldn't go through with it. I had my epiphany moment - I would not grow old living with this man and I haven't looked back. Still going through it, but life is finally moving in the right direction. Hang on in there!!

I've had a reply (replies, to be exact). Here's a highlight: you are denying me the opportunity to communicate about the children with their mother - or at least determining and controlling the extent of that communication, and placing yourself as the ultimate arbiter of their welfare.

Honestly, reading through what he's written, you would've thought I'd threatened to relocate to Mongolia or something. But then of course I have ignored his rights, as laid down in the Universal Declaration of Fuckwit Rights.

Funnily, though, he's thinking January is not a good idea for mediation and is wondering if it's too late for December! Classic!

Charlotte well done for standing up to him. The outrage comes through over.

My FW writes exactly like that. I am just realising that when mine says 'not communicating' or 'denying me the chance to communicate' what he means is 'not letting me decide unilaterally' and 'not bending over backwards to do things my way'. Its like another language, where communicate isn't used the same way at all. Makes me feel very sad.

Ah, yes, you are denying him the opportunity to communicate, Charlotte, which in FW-speak means that you are not doing what he says.

It will be too late for December.

Given that he has been quite happy to leave their day to day welfare up to you for 12 (?) years, then I think that last comment is a bit rich. But set your response to ignore. You do have the right to determine the extent of the communication you engage in.

Sorry, realised that red made the same point already!

Thanks, red and coach and yes, I will be ignoring, but I like your observation on his last comment, coach. Nice to think that other FWs talk the same way and are seen through, red - mine often seems utterly convincing to me... but I read his emails tonight a few times and just shook my head in disbelief. I have a ranty voice in my head going through what exactly is wrong with them - but I will not write any of that down to him, I shall just get used to that new way of thinking.

Insig, I think you're too angry to have been hoovered! You should've seen me when I was properly hoovered: all sappy and bleating stuff like, "I really think he's chaaaanged!" Don't you worry about what you're doing, it sounds like your head's in the right place. You are slowly moving towards the exit, and it's worth losing some battles (outwardly) in order to win the war. Please excuse the horrendous mixed metaphor, any pedants amongst us! :o

Thanks all. He is all hang dog expression today (knows yesterday upset me) and it hooks me back in thinking 'perhaps he's not so bad, every moment is not awful, should I just put up with it?' etc. Very glad I am seeing my IC tomorrow. It is just so bloody hard, why did I get a FW not a DH... I know I have to keep moving forward towards the exit but they make it so hard after all the years of trying and hoping. Damn.

I think that someone is secretly filming my life for the movie version of 'Why does he do that?' We had the shortest 'nice phase in history- an intense few minutes- then last night he wrote 6 pages about my faults. Great reading actually, I'm glad to have more evidence, we have drs appointment tomorrow morning and I am secretly hoping a diagnosis of something will follow quickly.

Good grief I seem to only post when I need advice. I dream of a day that I feel sufficiently in control to help other people! I am so so sick and tired of FW putting DD under pressure. Cut a long story short - she raised concerns at school about contact with her Dad (previously 3 nights per week), they referred to SS. No further action taken on the basis I'm protecting DD's interests.

Currently there is no overnight contact, and only the odd hour here and there of day time contact. DD is resolute that she doesn't want to stay overnight, she seems OK with day time contact as long as it's only for an hour or so.

But - FW keeps putting on the pressure. Saying that he misses her and needs to see her more. Saying 'let's get back to normal, assuming that's OK with you?' to her. She is so scared of his anger, she just says yes to everything, that she wants to see more of him, or says that I'm not letting her.

And then she bursts into tears because she's told a lie. She's having trouble sleeping now.

I speak to him directly, but now he has declared that everything has been made up, that I'm doing this, that he's going to sue me, the school and SS. He wants a conversation between me, him and DD, to sort it out once and for all. I refuse to put DD into that situation.

I don't know how to help her. She's too scared to tell him the truth. I have suggested various phrases she might use, but she's too scared to say any of them. The only solution I can think of at the moment is to say 'you don't have to go to your Dad's if you don't want to'. But that may well result in a legal battle, and will certainly incur his wrath.

Sorry that's turned into a total ramble! just wanted to vent. I'm trying to work full time at the same time, no suitable child care, and I'm exhausted. Christmas is coming and I still don't really know what's going to happen. What do I do to help her?!

noregrets Have you suggested mediation? Others May no more but if DD is old enough i think they will speak to her on her own.
Also, i could be wrong but legal action takes time. If you give her a few weeks off seeing him and suggest mediation...it will give her a break.

that's posted on your other thread.
When FW came back at me with all the terrible things i had done i just said yes you are right all the more reason not to be together. You are right we should split up. keep repeating it. let him talk himself out the door.

DD is only 9, not sure they'd speak to her on her own?

Thats

Will you be taking the 6 pages of vitriol with you then?

I'm not sure what you hope to gain from going to the Drs with him.

Teeny

oh another day another joyous experience. So after his hideous attack on me (verbally) sunday, Monday night was 2 hands to the throat in front of my son. Well I say that, he didn't touch me, he only moved towards me aggressively with his hands aimed at my neck then kindly walked away before actually touching me, what a gent. (please hear sarcastic tone) So I called my mu, she said don't stay. he then picked son up out of the bath, threw him (actually threw) onto the bed. He then said "you can get him ready" and left the house. I put DS to bed and called some friends who came over and hung out at mine till FW got back. I then stayed at theirs and have been home for 2 hours. I called 101 who have said they will send an officer out to speak to me. My Dad is going to have a worked with him too on Sunday.
In positive news - I got a call from friend who is renting me her house and they have moved my move in date to the 11th!!!! Those 3 days earlier are the best news I have had in months.
I also told police about other incidents and that I have spoken to WA before. What a mess he is creating.

Tweedle he's loosing his temper as he's losing his control. I wouldn't leave the dc with him atm he's liable to really snap. I wouldnt be alone with him either.

Are you all going to your mums to stay till the 11th now?

I wish I could but we can't. I have to work and I have college on Saturday. I feel stuck. I am still too scared to even contemplate the possibility that he may hurt the children.
I definitely cannot leave before work finishes as there is no one to cover me and there are only 3 people who work where I work. So messy.