Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

It is what it is indeed. I have several close friends with a first child the same age as my DD, who are currently pregnant with their second. Im finding it hard to even talk to them and see them with bumps without feeling that wild jealousy. Its horrible on top of everything else right now.

And you're right charlotte. No more men full stop! No advice here Im afraid, DD too little to articulate feelings.

Good luck for tomorrow bigbird .

bounty Congratulations! How marvellous you are out. Well done. I can so identify with excitement about lamps and towels. I even cried when I chose two (cheap) teatowels....

Charlotte I find numbers out of ten a good way for my DC to give me a sense how their day was. It can be surprising, - they can be howling about how awful things are, and I'm thinking 2/10 and they eventually plump for 6.5... DS has always found decision making difficult, and e.g. deciding who to have back for a playdate was always too tricky, until he could think ok, well he'd like Tom 3/10, and Dick 7/10 or whatever. Also works to then ask well, what might help get the day to a 5/10, what would make an 8/10, - just greater clarity on their priorities, and gives them more sense of their own action points. In a childlike way.

I make sure I don't ask till they've had a snack as this dramatically affects how they feel. Have found at bedtime does work for us, me lounging on beds, just because its snug and private, but we also try and talk together as a family after a meal at least once a week, because it helps the different children to hear what the others are saying. (Their own mini mn...) But mine are older.

I've also found visual ways to help them see why they are feeling difficult useful. E.g. cress seeds or sunflower seed planted - look we have been in this new house this long, and our roots aren't very deep yet and we're still trying to find the sunlight. Oh look we've been here three months, and the sunflower is this much taller, and what do we think we've achieved, etc. Helps manage expectations. Sunflower is only this high, of course we haven't yet got loads of friends we feel at home with...

redmaple I like the points out of 10 system. I also try and engage DS1 to talk if we are in the car on our own (although with four I realise you might not get them on their own like that) - but not facing him and letting him talk away seems to help him open up.

One thing DS1's CAHMS counsellor talked about was having a worry box. So for the ones who are old enough to write, you could ask them to do it once a week or something, and post it into a shoe box for you to look at later.

Or a family meeting, so that they feel they are being listened to and each get a turn to speak?

Just ideas to try, some will work for some kids and not for others.

Well, the DCs now know. They seemed to take it all very well. DS had a little cry, but I think some of that was because me and H were crying.
H has now gone out and DS said "It will be nice when it is just mummy because Daddy shouts too much." Out of the mouths of babes...

DD seems absolutely fine - if anything she is just excited!

They are now decorating the Christmas tree as if everything is normal - got to love them! :-)

Interesting turn of events this afternoon. H came back and was generally awful for the rest of the day. From previous stories etc I can see that he is now starting to feel his control truly going and has started to unravel. He screamed and shouted at the DCs for every last thing, then told them to "stop fucking whinging" when they start to cry. He called me every name under the sun and stormed out again halfway through dinner (as he couldn't stand my DDs behaviour - she doesn't like mushrooms so was quietly picking the pieces out of her dinner and putting them at the side of her plate).
They are in bed now and he has announced that I am "on my own" and just need to give him his cheque. He also advised that he will give me the money that he thinks he can afford - not my view of the world because it is none of my business (we've agreed previously that we wouldn't involve the CSA because it would be better I we could remain civil and sensible - we agreed a monthly amount that is easily affordable to him on his current income and outgoings).

Strangely, rather than feeling battered and bruised by all this like I have in the past, I actually feel stronger! I know this is another step in the right direction. I know that I have budgeted carefully and (as long as I'm thrifty) I can manage on my salary alone. But I also know that, once he has moved out, I will if need be find the strength to go to a solicitor and the CSA. If he is going to hate me and bad mouth me in front of the kids anyway I have nothing to lose!

bigbird agree you've nothing to lose. How awful he is being. When does he move out for good? I

Ps. It's harder to leave when they flip to nice. Beware of this happening. When they're rude and ranty you can see right in front of you exactly why you need to go

The nice caring act is the worst, someone (I think tweedle at the start of the thread) advised me to record him ranting and raving so when he's in nice mode you can play it back to remind yourself of his true colours.

Once they're gone don't let them back in again, when contact starts get the kids and you ready and meet him outside for handovers. If I had managed to keep ex fw outside and away from me once he moved out I wouldn't be where I am now.

I love the idea of asking dc how they're day was out of ten, brilliant idea.

He's being trying the nice act since I told him it was over (with only a couple of explosions, including last night). But it's regularly backed off with "See, I'm not such a bad husband, am I?" and similar things to try and get me to back down from my decision.
I'm hoping today will return to the usual general grumpiness - if he continues on last nights level I will be asking him to find somewhere else to stay until his house is ready.
He moves for real in 9 days time - nothing really considering how long I have felt unhappy!

HI! Just catching up with everything.
Bounty WoHoooooooo!!! Well done! definitely time for
Bigbird sounds like my FW when i split with him. Kept reminding me that he wasn't that bad. Buying me flowers and wine that i like but then also accusing me of stealing and bullying my son. Basically more of the same as when we were together but with the intensity of a man who's control is slipping away. I have a huge list of things he has done to me in my phone. It may sound bad but if he is nice/manipulative I look at it and it helps my resolve to get out and maintains that core strength inside. i am sad the strength i have is still quite reactionary but i only have to get to the 14th of January and then i can deal with the fall out of the emotions in my own space.
FW came home with a Christmas tree. It was like someone punching me in the heart. All the emotions of the previous 3 weeks caught up with me. A tree should not be so emotive except that the last 3 years i have WANTED a tree, but he has always told me they are a waste of money, then when we did go and get one he made us get the one form the back of the shop. and moaned about the stand (which we still have and is not holding up new tree) was expensive (it was a fiver!).
However when stood at the sink dong the washing up whilst he talked to the kids about decorating the tree i realised i could leave. It was like an epiphany. I didn't have to stay and take the emotional beating of decorating the tree with him. So i left, went to a friends, had a massive emotional break down, felt better for not shouting at FW and not getting involved in his bullshit. I felt like i had done a good job of protecting myself.
one more week of 'normal life' then i am working all next week to cover holiday, then christmas, then new year, then 10days, then i move!!!!!!

tweedlezee that was a brilliant (and timely!) realisation. No, you don't have to stay and put up with it, ever. Well done you for both realising and following through with it. You were able to have the emotional space and crumple that you needed and probably felt better for letting it out than pushing it all down and feeling even more resentful. It's all moving in the right direction.

bigbird a lot can happen in 9 days, and I'm sure they will drag because you are so desperate for them to pass. Keep yourself safe.

tweed interesting... I got flowers too. And when I asked what they were for the reply was "am I not allowed to be nice to you now?" - trying to make it my fault, again!
DS has been quite upset today. He is definitely the more emotional of the DCs, but also the one who is more obviously affected by FWs behaviour. House has been calmer, but still very tense with mini explosions going off at regular intervals. Weekdays tend to be better - FW gets home just before DCs bedtime, so much more time on our own - so I'm optimistic that this week will be ok.
Thursday will be interesting. I've got my works Christmas party - major party with lots of free alcohol. I've decided to stay at (girl)friends afterwards rather than risk all out warfare if I get home late and drunk, but I know he thinks that means I'm staying with a man.

Vile man, buying you a Christmas tree, tweedle! Strange, isn't it, that that sentence can make sense, but it totally does. The nice things they do just because it might bring their cushy life back - I've lost count of the number I've had the breath knocked out of me by. It just says: when it was for you, I didn't care. Now it's for me, I do. Bastards.

Also liking the marks out of 10 idea. Thanks for the suggestions.

Morning, lovelies. I'm really struggling today. I feel like I haven't had a peaceful moment to myself to recharge since about Thursday. (Sorry if that sounds pathetic! It's the introvert in me!) The weekend's been full-on - busy, good but still draining what with the usual soaking up of DC's normal emotions, plus another child for half the weekend. This morning, I've had sensory overload - never really thought of it like that before, but that's what it is. Cold, noise, touch, awkward conversations. It probably makes me sound about 5.

Now got a quiet 90 minutes before a very hectic end of day. But the house looks like a whirlwind just passed through. And I walked in to discover I'd left the iron on, which is a bit stupid when I'm trying to save money wherever possible. And what I really don't want to be dealing with is FW saying that DD3 should be doing as much contact as the others and he should have as much say over their contact arrangements as I do. It all sounds so reasonable - and I don't want it to be true!! Need to get mediation started, but he insists he hasn't got free time for that till the second half of January.

Do I say that we need to talk sooner than that and take it back to the solicitor? He didn't reply to the mediator for so long that she said I'd given it a try and could go back to the solicitor - then he jumped in with his delaying tactics but "really really just trying to be helpful and oh so reasonable" crap.

I'm not sure this makes much sense. Thanks for reading! I shall go and curl up in a ball for an hour, I think. No, I won't - I'll drag my feet round the house and clear it up a bit.

More of his vile words last night.
I even got the "You are too skinny" comment. Didn't a few others get this towards the end? Funny though as I was thinner than I am now when we met.
Also that I should be lucky that the pint of water he threw in my face wasn't hot. I counted my lucky stars that he was not SUCH a c**t that he gave me 3rd degree burns, really I did (NOT!)
Also that he will give me no money as the kids will be staying 3 nights a week at his apparently so he doesn't have to.
I think he may have thrown our son into his bed last night too as I heard some real physical activity in DS bedroom and FW say "sorry, look i'm sorry but you can't behave like this" just after a thumping sound on the bed. I can't say anything as I was not there but I am giving DS loads of love today and he is very happy and jolly to be around. Apparently he has been hard work and moaning all weekend (maybe that's because YOU are HARDWORK FW!!!!)
So yeh, FWittery is going up a gear what with Christmas looming, Got to make it all about him. whatever/ 1 more week of this, then 3 days of work, then kids away, then home for Christmas. Then, after new year, I might go back and stay with my mum and dad for the week. I am not sure I can be around this, if I don't have to, then I won't. and if it comes down to it and other people have to move me so I can stay with the kids and protect them from as much of their fathers anger as I can, then I will do that too. And if I have to fight him in court, BRING IT ON! as he spoke to me last night I wrote down everything he said. taking notes the whole time, just in case.
but not long now...................

sorry you are feeling burnt out charlotte probably why the nonsense of FW is getting to you. Be kind to yourself. I'd just go to the solicitor. But i'm in that kind of F-U mood and I know when you are tired you just can't be arsed!!! Tidying the house always helps me regain a sense of control over the madness. I hope it helps you too time?

Tweedle I have no idea how you manage to stay there without flipping out and murdering him in his sleep!

I would be getting small revenges all the time, rub his toothbrush under the toilet rim, hiding stuff, whatever you could do in secret really

I feel so sick have spoke to work and have the week off. I can't even walk the dc to school without heaving just want to feel back to normal.

My dm had the dc saturday night and all the weekends this month are jam packed. Dd doesn't really want to go and stay at his and I'm not pushing it. I'm not actively stopping her but I'm planning stuff to do so they're having jam packed weekends. She doesn't get treated fairly she gets nagged and nagged and blamed for stuff her other siblings have done.

Tweedle all this time you have said what a good dad he is... Maybe his act of father of the year is slipping?

3 nights a week so he doesn't have to pay anything... oh yes, that. I have realised what FW is up to (finally). He doesn't want to pay me anything, but more than that: he wants to have equal say in the parenting. Is that how it's supposed to work? I think that the resident parent gets more say? But if it is equal shared care, there is no RP - hence his keenness to have them as much as possible. And I am supposed to hand them over and be happy that he is such a good father even though I am such a bad mother for leaving the father of my children for no good reason except my own selfishness and blah blah blah.

tweedle, yes I feel like housework would help except that all my limbs are like lead today. I just want to hibernate... but I only have half an hour left now of this quiet time, anyway. Not even enough to finish the washing up let alone tackle the rest of the house.

Pulling myself together now. Just have to get through till tomorrow 3pm, then have 3 more hours to get stuff done. I can cope, really I can!

Charlotte - take it back to the solicitor. It's not about him having a 'say' in the contact arrangements. In fact, it's not about him at all. It's about the DCs, and that alone. Each child is different, of a different age and different sensibilities, so each needs to be considered separately. Don't let him bully you - and yes, that's what he's doing!

Re parenting. He gets to have a say about their parenting when he has them. It is good if the two of you can be consistent with what each other is doing, and present a united front on some issues, eg TV time, sweets, etc. But if how he is wanting to parent is at odds with your approach, or plain not good enough, then that needs to be raised with the solicitor (and through mediation). He doesn't get to tell you how to parent. You can choose to do whatever the feck you want when the kids are with you.

If he doesn't have free time till January, then you set a contact schedule that suits you and the kids and seems reasonable for him too. If he objects, tough, that's how it is until you can get to mediation.
You need to be hard with him, Charlotte, and stand firm. You are doing fab!!!!

And Tweedle - for poor DS. How old is he? Can he talk to you/someone else about how he feels around his dad? Good idea to write everything down. Speak to your HV as well, it's always good to have it recorded somewhere official that there is aggression and abuse for the children too.

Email I want to send to him:

^We will talk in mediation. Till then, I am not discussing with you any further changes to the children's contact time or justifying to you my reasoning.

Perhaps now would be a good time to set up a date for a mediation meeting?^

Too confrontational/blunt/curt?

(Inspired by your post, pony. )

That sounds short and to the point charlotte.

Yes. He will hate it!

Perfect, Charlotte. Just the right tone of 'you are starting to piss me off now, and you really don't want to do that'!!

Or how about (just thinking out loud...)
I believe that the contact arrangements I have set out are in the children's best interests and are reasonable. If you disagree, then we will need to discuss it in mediation. Till then, I am not discussing any further changes to the children's contact time or justifying to you my reasoning.

Just so you get in the bit about it being in their interests and being reasonable, should you ever need a paper trail. Covering your bases!!