Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

charlotte. I'm the opposite. I wanted a dc2 but my head was telling me it was so definitely not a good idea. My heart was the other way. Letting go of the hope of a dc2 was one of my major hurdles. I never wanted dd to be an only child.

Mind you, having 3 let alone 4 must be exhausting!!

Oh Muff big hugs and flowers from me too. Yes do take your time to decide. Its ok not to be clear at this stage, things will become clearer. Trust yourself. Sadly, as we all here know, life just isn't clearcut. Be gentle with yourself.

Charlotte thank you so much for your very very wise words. It makes such a difference to know you are all out there, struggling with similar things. Having things reflected back, seeing my own experiences as part of a bigger thread of other peoples lives.

He hardly bothers with the dd we have together, he doesn't pay CS or even her music lessons that he is supposed to. He is a cunt I am so angry at him and myself.

I have already had one termination a few years ago and I still feel so guilty about that now.

The biggest thing is keeping it means not moving on. I really want to move on and start afresh but how do you do that being pregnant.

My DM and best friend say get rid, it's only a period at this stage, it will be so much more had work this time. But I do deep down want it I think. I know i will be shit for a couple of years but we can muddle through it.

It just means I'm going to be on my own for the foreseeable future, no dates, no holidays, no drinks out with friends, just stuck at home lonely and bored.

muff there was someone on here who was pregnant and left. Honey-something I think. Perhaps you could read back through her posts?

thanks bounty, I will have a look for her.

Give me I am exhausted!

Today I finished clearing out the family home with FW. Right up to the last he has messed me about, changed his mind about which things I could take and refused to reply to direct questions or allow me to take things when I had the time free. I finished work late and went round and fetched the last bits tonight.
The person who has shone throughout is DP who has propped me up and helped fetch and carry and observed FW with a wry smile. It really helps to have an objective observer point out that FW is "walking like a wounded chicken" and is playing the victim
So there we are. For the first time in nearly thirty years I am single and a non home owner! I am going backwards...

To those of you still tangled up with the FW take heart. After being free of their coils for a year or two it just inspires disbelief that anyone can be such a Grade A wanker. I observe, I laugh and ignore then go home and rant!! But I don't have to live with him any more and he does forever!!

Backwards but oh so far forwards too?

Hello everyone I haven't been here in a long, long, time....how are you all?

Mink? Charlotte? bounty? et al? And hi to all the newbies.

Basically, I have been doing well. I have surprisingly felt very strong, and not missed the ex one bit. I have tried to not bring up anything about our relationship, and he has seen DD a few times now. I have my first big exam in 2 weeks, and I asked him to look after her for the week as he wont see her over the xmas period. DD is having a lovely time there and so that is not the issue....

But this morning when I called to check up on DD, and upon discussing the fact that I am struggling financially (I get 5.00 a week maintenance which takes ages to come through he is on the dole. Although he recently started yet another job, and left because the travel was too much). I was met with silence. And for some reason, that just really pushed my buttons today. He ended up saying all sorts of things in return, mainly him rewriting history and just generally being a very vile non-empathetic fuckwit. I ended up getting very very worked up today on the phone, and went back to my old habit of crying so much, that I end up vomiting! i thought I was over this, I thought he couldn't let me feel like this anymore, but he can. And the lack of empathy today was just astounding, I got ' stop complaining and get on with it like the rest of us have to'.

I know you all will really disagree but I just want to disappear with my daughter and cut off contact completely. I have tried to do the right thing. When he has come to pick her up, I have picked him up from the train station, I still let him in my home. But I am not sure if I can cope with 15 years worth of violent vomiting every now and again - that is the reaction he seems to induce in me. I was a mess today, an utter mess. I don't have the money to pay for mediation or lawyers or anything like that. And I just want to cut contact, DD doesn't need him anyway.

KA for you, backwards is the new forwards

redmapleleaves it is clear that you have communicated. His replies, otoh, don't seem to fit the criteria for communication, as such.

muff what a decision to have to make...

May the thread be with you all .

Festive emoticons reminded me to slip into something less scarey and more Christmassy...

x-post rose. Your decision what is best for you and DD. I am guessing that today you thought he would understand about the money, and want to provide for his DD. Perhaps the fact that you've done so well at keeping him at bay lulled you into forgetting he isn't reasonable. (All through my divorce I still thought FWEx would be reasonable at the next step, despite not being during the previous step.)

Hi rose lovely to see you. Glad the course is going well. I think of you from time to time and hope that no news is good news.

I left 7 days ago. So still very new to all this.

I suppose the issue is in part that whilst fw maybe adds very little to your dd's life, she still has the right to know him. At the moment she is just too young to be able to make any opinion of her own. If you deny her contact then he can basically say to her that he would have been a great dad but you came between them, and that could cause problems between you and dd later on.

Maybe you need to draw firmer boundaries though. So you don't pick him up from the station (he walks, cycles, bus, taxi whatever) and you have dd ready and don't let him in the house. So that contact between the 2 of you is just clinical and nothing else. Would that make it more bearable?

Yep you are right Sparkly, I thought he would understand but he didn't. He seemed pissed off that I was bringing up my discontent about lack of financial support. He even told me that apparently I am " really lucky" and that he " has spoken to numerous women " who said " he could have easily fucked off ". It was at that point that I said " why don't you fuck off then? " I never thought the day would come where I wish he would just jump off a cliff. I know that makes me sound cold hearted but I look in the mirror sometimes and I know he has aged me. I am tired, and I dont want to see, or hear from ever again. I don't want DD knowing that is the man I chose to be her father. I just want it all to go away

cross post, Hi Bounty...sorry I went awol. I figured taking some time away from mumsnet would help me to try and get on with things.

I surprise myself with how far I have come, I am losing weight, I have scented candles in my room, I laugh real belly laughs to Radio 1 in my old banger in the mornings. And I sing loudly...a lot. There is glimpses of the old rose coming back. If you are only 5 days out, hold on....you will start to see glimpses of the old Bounty coming back. And it makes you catch your breath sometimes, when you see yourself actually being happy.

I am not sure Bounty about even seeing him to do changeovers. He makes me skin crawl...and the " nicey nicey " act after completely making me feel like a worthless piece of crap just makes me want to vomit. I will never forgive him for what he has done to me, I know that much. I don't want to see his messages on my phone, or his emails in my inbox. Everything about him makes me sick now.

I think I also worry about her when she is there. At the moment, I have called everyday to check he has been giving her all her meals and that she is OK and I have seen her on Skype too. Deep down, I resent leaving the most precious person in my life with someone who makes me feel violently sick and has no empathy skills. .. it goes against all of my maternal instincts when I give her to him it really does

Well. H seems to be in a police cell. I called the police last night as he'd said he wanted to 'smash my f-ing face in' and as I'd been advised to get things like this on record I dialled 101. Before I ended the call there were two police at the door and another outside in a second car. Sh!t. I tried to make them go away as it hadn't been my intention to let him know, I thought I could just tell them and get it on record for future reference, so to speak. But they wouldn't leave, I didn't know what to do so I went upstairs and told him, he refused to come, the police came to the room and demanded he get out of bed, get dressed and come with him, unprompted he said that he'd threatened to 'smash my face in' but that of course he hadn't meant it- the police heard that. And they thought it was bad. So off he went in a police car, and I'm here alone. I had a nice long chat with an extremely lovely policewoman who wrote down 4 or 5 pages of notes, I kept thinking it was a bit of overkill as it was just my side of the story, but she seemed to totally be horrified as I told her of what he'd been doing lately, even when I told her he'd rejected his dinner last night and demanded a new one. Hmmm. I think he's going to be furious, I have to go to work tomorrow so no idea what happens next. I imagine this is the end, after this I can't imagine we'll stay together. But not the slick exit I'd hoped for. I'm feeling v v sorry for him right now but police said he'd clearly brought it on himself.

that's poor you! That must have been very traumatic. Hope you are ok. don't feel too sorry for him.you are not in the wrong, he is and this might be a wake up call he needs. threats of violence are DV and it is illegal. it is not as he seems to think ok as longs it is you on the receiving end.
I thinkyou should contact WA today if you can. you need some kind of plan before they release him.

Sending you strength and best wishes. today May be the day. x

Hello everyone else. only skim read sorry.
Hi rose been thinking of you.
muff that is a tough call. can you get someone impartial a counsellor to talk it over with? Whatever you decide there will be lots if support here and lots in rl too.
for example the doula network will support survivors of DV if you need them. WA might be a good place to start to talk o ersation your options.
i remember honey too. hope she is ok..and pearl

thats You did the right thing and the police are showing they take this sort of behaviour seriously. You have the right to feel safe in your own home and not be threatened (even in passing) with violence. Their reaction only seems like overkill because you have learnt how to minimise the effect of his words. Speaking to a neighbour the other day he spoke of how he had heard FW call me a cunt. I am used to these words alone and in front of the children. I started to mention this to people and they were outraged for me. I realised that I had become so used to absorbing his behaviour I couldn't actually react anymore - it doesn't help to react to a FW because they LOVE it. Good luck and yes, agree with Minks advice to speak to WA.
Rose FW's cannot empathise and their lack of empathy is totally exhausting. I think the advice to create you own boundaries is a good one. Then you can stick to these and you know you are in control of how much of your life you let him into. The key phrase being your life. They will try to trample down your boundaries but just remember you can re-set them and you are in control of them.
And muff hugs for what you are faced with. can't really advice but be kind to yourself. xx

Muff, looks like either way will be very tough.

I suppose there's a third, also very tough, option, too - adoption. Which would give you the chance to bring a life into the world, and a possibility of a relationship far in the future(? I think) while letting you move on now. Drawback being that it'd be almost impossible to do, I would imagine, like you feel about a termination.

We will support you whatever you choose to do!

KA - very inspiring post! Must be so helpful to have a lovely DP to compare with the FW. Love the "wounded chicken" comment! And the bit about him having to live with himself forever.

Rose, good to hear from you, but you don't need to apologise for not having needed the thread for a while. It's a good sign when people start needing to drop in less frequently. I think it sounds a good idea for you to reduce contact with yourself to as little as possible, nothing if you can find someone to talk to him for you (sil?). If you stopped talking to him, would he show the initiative to try to make plans to see DD or would he just fade into the background? If contact is only happening at your instigation, I'd be tempted to stop instigating it.

thats - goodness, that must've been quite a shock. I second the suggestion to talk to WA before he's released so that you can make plans. He is a FW and he brought it on himself. Well done you for sticking up for yourself. I hope freedom is not far away for you.

bigbird hi. keep posting if you have things you need to talk about. sadly this is very busy thread just now but the upside is that there will be someone who knows exactly what you are going through. welcome to the thread.

bigbird many of us think we are a "mild case" - really we are more like an "insidious case" - much harder for those who haven't experienced it to truly understand, and just as hard to unpick as physical abuse.

I am going to give myself a week and then make a decision, this morning if you said heres a pill take it and it will go away I would of, but the rest of the day I have been thinking how lovely a baby would be. I think a week would help.

I know the above post I said a week, but I have mad up my mind. I'm going to have a termination. I'm only 5 weeks, should be done by 6 weeks if I sort it out tomorrow.

I really need to move on, my dd's 8 so realistically I have another 8 years of fw, I don't want to put it back 16 years. I don't want to be a single parent from the get go all over again, I have so much going on I'm stretched enough without adding a baby in the mix.

Feel happier now I have made up my mind.

Bounty you left! Well done! I know it will still be difficult but I'm so happy for you and dc