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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

My mother (very long, sorry, but I need help and kind words)

134 replies

Dior · 07/07/2006 12:28

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DetentionGrrrl · 17/01/2007 15:33

you didn't make her depressed, the realisation of what she did made her feel bad about herself. There's a difference.

Original poster
Dior · 17/01/2007 15:35

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 17/01/2007 15:39

Well, I guess she is entitled to her rebuttle. If you are ever going to have some kind of decent relationship then its better you are both honest about how you feel.

The problem with a person who has got away with a type of behaviour for many years without confrontation, when they are finally called on it - its a shock.

Original poster
Dior · 17/01/2007 15:41

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 17/01/2007 18:41

Yes, there are plenty of up and downs in all relationships. The best that you can both do is just keep talking and keep in touch, whilst respecting each other's need for space.

This is probably a very steep learning curve for her.

Pages · 17/01/2007 21:32

Dior, it seems like you very easily lose your feelings of power when around her and yet from what you have said it sounds like you are in a really strong position. Had everything just been swept under the carpet nothing would have changed but your mum has firstly acknowledged that she was not the mother she should have been and now is going to counselling - that is brilliant! She has finally realised, because you had the courage to confront her, that she needs to do some work on herself. She could easily have turned round and said it was all you, and your fault and that she wasn't going to (or didn't need to) change. She may not agree with everything you said but at least she cares enough about you to even tell you how she feels. Maybe she is doing this because she doesn't want you to think so badly of her?

Previously you were the one in the famly going to counselling and it seemed like evryone perceived you as being the one in the family with the problems. Now she is admitting she needs help too. It will take time and of course your relationship will never be the same again but you are talking and both getting the help you need. That is a bloody good start in my eyes (and a whole lot better than my family where everyone is still happy to believe that I am the one with all the problems and they are all okay just as they are).

Your relationship is changing and the old relationship has died - but possibly, hopefully to be replaced in time with a closer, more real and more loving one.

You feel guilt because you care about her but you are quite right to separate her pain from yours - you have a big enough job taking care of yourself. I am really hopeful for you and more than a bit envious. xx

Original poster
Dior · 19/01/2007 21:29

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Pages · 19/01/2007 21:48

Oh Dior, I am so sorry. Obviously it wasn't as I thought. I guess I just thought that if she was going to counselling it was an acknowldgement that she had problems too and it wasn't just a case of everyone in the family pretending you were the only one with the issues.

It is really weird but there is a chapter in the Toxic Parents book that describes exactly what you have told us. The parent starts off by validating your feelings about the past and then another family member (your dad) rescues her and tells her she is okay and you have got it wrong and she then goes back on what she said. My mum also did this initially and then, like yours, decided to dump it all back on me and give herself victim status. Why on earth would she be afraid to be in the same room as you ffs? That is just pathetic.

All I can say is it stinks, and your mum has taken the coward's way out. Your dad has done what he has always done, placated her and told her what she wants to hear. Don't forget he is protecting himself too because if he admitted it might be as bad as you say then he has let you down too by not being there for you.

Please CAT me if you feel like it - I have nearly done with you so many times.

What position is your sister taking btw? Is she still trying to remain neutral?

Pages · 19/01/2007 21:52

PS Dior, you know that she is talking from a position of extreme guilt - she doesn't seem to be able to cope with the strong self-assured you, hence her finding it easier when you cry.

I like the strong you! Angry is good!

xx

Original poster
Dior · 19/01/2007 21:54

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Pages · 20/01/2007 10:50

I was wondering how the job was going?

It's interesting that no matter what you do you still end up taking on the crap feelings. Your mum now feels better and you feel worse, as you say the status quo has been restored. Everyone now feels comfortable again - except you. And that is the way it has always been.

It's interesting that my mum hasn't defended herself against any of what I said, she has just flounced off, taking most of my family with her, and I am still left feeling some guilt.

So a different approach, but like you I end up with bad feelings. What I am trying to say is that maybe it is the pattern we have always been in. My counsellor says it is up to me whether I want to take these feelings on board and I know that is right. I haven't yet got to a point where I have learned to refuse to accept the guilt but I recognise that nobody else can actually force you to feel bad about something - it is down to you.

You have had 36 years of feeling responsible for what happened to you, and I have had even longer. It is going to take time but I do believe it is something that can be changed - with or without help from our mothers. You have already reached the point where you are able to intellectually recognise that teh guilt feelings belong rightly to her not you, but you haven't yet got there on a feeling level. Of course after 36 years that is going to take more than a few months of counselling to reverse but it will and can happen.
Your mother may not be able to change he habits of a lifetime but you can.

I believe that the confrontation was necessary for you (and for me) but you don't need your mother's acknowledgment in order to move on. The confrontation in itself is enough. You have handed it back to her and what ever she tries to do with it, you don't have to accept the guilt, fear and obligation. It really is your decision. I don\t know quite how you go about it cos I am not there yet either! But I know that logically it can be done.

Sorry if this is a load of waffle. I know you don't like self-help books but the book I mentioned really does explain it far better than I can!

Original poster
Dior · 20/01/2007 12:44

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Pages · 20/01/2007 19:41

Dior, please don't give up on yourself, I know some of the other things you are going through and it must be really tough to keep feeling good about yourself when you are being popped at from other directions as well. But you are NOT blaming her unfairly, and she told you that! Just because she has now decided to ease her conscience at your expense, do NOT let her dump all the bad feelings back on you again.

Everything you think and feel is valid - as my counsellor said to me your childhood was every bit as bad as you think it was, because you sitting here now with your life in crisis is the current day evidence of that. If your childhood had been okay, you would be okay now. Your mum may not have been able to help how she acted because of her difficulties at the time but the least she could do now is try and make it up to you by telling you it was her, not you. But (like my mum) she can't live with the guilt.

Just ask yourself how you would react if your DS1 ever came to you and told you he felt upset as a result of his childhood... would you tell him it wasn't that bad and let him feel upset at any cost so long as you felt okay? Of course you wouldn't, you would do anything you could to make him feel better, because he is your child and you love him. I have had to face up to the fact that my mother's definition of love is not teh same as mine (and most familes) and I know it hurts.

Your mother has let you down badly and you know it. She may never acknowledge it fully. But you know the truth and now you need to take care of yourself and your family. You are a really lovely person, I can tell that just by chatting to you on line. Do CAT me if you need to.

xxxxxxxxx

Pages · 20/01/2007 19:43

PS You have got good at putting on a front. I know that feeling too, but it makes you feel so disconnected from others. Is there anyone in RL that you can go to for a massive hug?

Original poster
Dior · 20/01/2007 19:45

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Pages · 20/01/2007 19:54

I do understand your reasons Dior, the only point I would make though is that sometimes people like to be needed, and sharing your problems can bring you closer...

foxinsocks · 20/01/2007 19:57

(thanks Pages for pointing this out)

oh dior, you sound like you're feeling a bit overwhelmed at the moment. Would it help to write down exactly what is bothering you (in point form) and perhaps try and formulate a plan to tackle things, one at a time?

I often find that everything together can seem insurmountable - each problem on their own (even if you feel they are interlinked) can seem much easier to handle.

Don't be frightened of using crisis lines or someone like the Samaritans. They are there to help and can be a fantastic non judgemental ear when you need one.

For most people, the one person in their lives who can affect their emotions the most is their own mother. Your mother has realised the control she has over you and is deliberately making you feel guilty. I know it's hard but perhaps if you can see what is happening, you might be able to make more sense of it in your head.

Sorry you are feeling so bad. xx

Original poster
Dior · 20/01/2007 20:00

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Pages · 20/01/2007 21:34

If you can try and explain, either to us or to someone like the Samaritans, it will keep you in touch with others while you are going through it. I can really relate to putting a brave face on it and feeling a fraud as you describe. As Fox says on the other thread the pretence that everything is okay when it isn't really cuts you off from people.

You are not on your own, we are here.

Having said that, I really have to go to bed as have had several late nights and am exhausted. But I will check back in tomorrow morning, Dior, to see if you are okay and will be thinking of you. x

Pages · 21/01/2007 11:57

How are you today Dior?

Original poster
Dior · 21/01/2007 17:28

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Pages · 21/01/2007 19:20

It seems like whatever your problems with DH, he has always been very understanding and supportive about your situation with your mum. Glad you have had a good day Dior.

I had a long chat with my older brother (in Australia) this morning and I too feel a lot better. He made me realise that the guilt I too have been feeling (like you)is conditioning from my mum to protect her and never upset her and he said it is risiculous, we had every right to confront our mother about the way we feel and the mistakes she has made, that's what you should be able ot do in every relationship, and he is right. I really think your mother, like mine, is unable to hear it because she knows it is true and she just can't bear the guilt.

Anyway, it is great you have your DH to discuss it with and that he knows your mother well enough to know what is going on.

Original poster
Dior · 22/01/2007 14:32

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Pages · 22/01/2007 20:42

It must be really hard for you, and for DH. I have never really suffered from depression although I have had one or two patches in my life when things were quite bad and I can relate to the "lonely in a crowd feeling" and putting on a brave face when with others and crying in my own. If that is depression then maybe I did suffer it but got over it in time by myself so probably not depression in the true sense.

I do have a friend who has suffered it on and off for years though and she is now fine. Do you take any meds? I have heard very good reports about Olanzepine but very bad ones about Seroxat.

How is the job btw?

Pages · 22/01/2007 20:43

On my own, not in my own.