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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My mother (very long, sorry, but I need help and kind words)

134 replies

Dior · 07/07/2006 12:28

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Pages · 24/08/2006 20:13

Well don't!!!! I would go back to them in exactly the same (slightly patronising) tone and thank them for their concern and say that you are glad they want to maintain contact with DS, and that you will let them know how things go. It seems to me like they do recognise that the difficult time you are going through (and you are but it is their fault!!) has something to do with them but they are way too defensive to just come out and admit it.

The bottom line is your mum KNOWS she has really really seriously badly let you down - and she can't handle it. They might outwardly make it "Dior's problems" but they both know on a deeper level that they have f**d up big style where you are concerned and the guilt must be enormous.

I think you are getting somewhere personally - more than I can say for me!!

throckenholt · 24/08/2006 20:14

I know you are really struggling to come to terms with your childhood and your relationship with your mum - but have you ever thought that she did not choose to treat you the way she did - presumably she was in a very dark place when you were a baby (you mentioned PND). She probably feels very very guilty for the way you are feeling and does not know how to make things better - so she and your Dad are trying to do what they think you want because they don't want to upset you further. She probably feels that she has managed to blight your life and caused your bouts of depression and is terrified of hurting you more.

I think at some stage you and your mum need to get together and really talk things through - even if it involves a lot of tears.

You have to find a way to forgive her and not blame yourself (or her) for what happened. And believe your DH that you are worthy of love, and it is just a tragic mishap of history that things went wrong when you were little and your mum never knew how to make it right again.

Dior · 24/08/2006 20:23

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Dior · 24/08/2006 20:25

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TheRealCam · 24/08/2006 20:30

Dior, its not for your mother's sake but for your own sake that you have to forgive her. Otherwise you will never move on, you will stay stuck with those feelings.

It really is the only way to change things because you can't change the past.

Dior · 24/08/2006 20:31

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Sobernow · 24/08/2006 20:35

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 24/08/2006 20:37

Dior, I dont know what to say, except that my views mirror Throckenholts, but can understand that whilst it maybe able to be healed, but there will always be a scar/permanent damage. How terribly sad for you all .

Dior · 24/08/2006 20:40

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Sobernow · 24/08/2006 20:42

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Dior · 24/08/2006 20:43

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Sobernow · 24/08/2006 20:50

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Dior · 24/08/2006 20:53

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Sobernow · 24/08/2006 20:58

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AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/08/2006 20:58

Dior,

I posted this recent response to Pages re the response from the parents (I think their response re them saying you were going through a difficult time is typical toxic parents type response to the child now adult's feelings) and the following may help:-

Most toxic parents will counterattack any allegations. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Some typical parental reactions to confrontation are as follows

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

Dior · 24/08/2006 21:06

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TheRealCam · 24/08/2006 21:07

I really think I'm going to scream (and I don't do histrionics) if I see that book quoted from again as if its the answer to everything.

Its not a Bible, its just a book written by someone who wants to make money out of people's misery.

The encouragement of people to split up from their parents permanently reminds me of the Moonies a few decades ago.

Pages · 24/08/2006 21:14

Hope you will get a bit of rest Dior, try and have a bit of fun, and I'll be thinking of you too xxx

Pages · 24/08/2006 21:24

I disagree Cam (as you might have guessed!). The author of the book acknowledges that it is not following some of the traditional approaches to psychotherapy in encouraging people to confront their parents but imo it is a unifying rather than a dividing approach because it encourages a more open and honest relationship between children and their parents, once the negative stuff has been put out into the open.

Nobody who dissacociates themselves from their parents (apart from cult-followers perhaps)makes that decision lightly but it is - as Dior says - not possible when you have suffered at the hands of your parents to just grin and bear the pain, shame, etc. without some kind of confrontation and replacement of the guilt back where it belongs. The result of buried anger is internalisation of it such as Dior is now feeling.

I know that I would be ready to say sorry to my children and help them work through their pain if I had caused this much hurt in my child's life.

Pages · 24/08/2006 21:25

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throckenholt · 25/08/2006 08:34

dior - in response to your answer to me (haven't read the rest yet).

That is so sad. You are really screwed up by the whole experience and understandably so - but the thing is you have to find a way through it otherwise your life is a very grim place.

Think of this scenario:
I can imagine that if I had struggled through a very few bad years with a new child (through no fault of either of us), that when I finally surface I am confronted by a little person who is struggling to work out her place in the world and really does not know what to do to please me. She does things to please me that back fire, or just anything to get my attention, I get angry, and then I feel guilty, and I was feeling horribly guilty anyway. I just don't know how to make things right so I stumble on probably making things worse by not admitting to anyone (least of all my child) that I am doing things wrong. I bury it deep and pretend everything is right. The further down this road I go the worse it gets - I just don't know how to back down and make things right. And as my daughter grows up she learns coping mechanisms and the chasm grows.

Fast forward to now - my daughter has finally admitted to me that she really suffered from her childhood and my inability to make things right for her. She tells me I am partly to blame for the problems she has now (and I can see she is really struggling with life). My problem is I STILL don't know how to make it right. So I keep quiet, keep away, and hope she can find a way out to the otherside. And I still feel horribly guilty.

I can imagine that is how your mum is - and she just has no idea what to do to help you.

Maybe a way through this for you is to write something like this to your mum - tell her you can see it from her side - and you really just need her to admit she is human, she made mistakes and admit that she is sorry.

Maybe if you can get to that stage you can begin to forgive her, and accept that the past is past and you don't need to let it blight your future. That you have a family of your own now, and they need you as much as you needed her. You need to find a way to make sure you don't perpetuate the cycle by letting the mistakes of the past so blight your present and future that your own children miss out in the way you did.

Maybe if you can get on this path - you can let the past be past and learn to love yourself and the life you have now and in the future.

milward · 25/08/2006 08:43

dior - support to you here. You're done something v positive is saying how you feel.

On my part I have probs & issues with my mother - wish I could tell her my thoughts but she refuses contact

Pages · 25/08/2006 11:33

Why is she refusing contact, Milward? Sorry if you said why on my thread but there were so many responses.

I think what throckenholt has said is really helpful but I think Dior has already told her mum this (?)

milward · 25/08/2006 21:09

Dior - hope you're ok xxx

Pages - my mum is just stubborn, jealous & wont admit she's wrong on things. She needs medical help as I think she has mental health probs - we've tried her gp & asked for someone to visit her but the the gp said that this isn't possible unless she goes to see him first. I'm sad for my kids not being able to see their gran.

Pages · 25/08/2006 21:15

Poor you Milward. Is there anyone else besides you in the family who is experiencing this? I only say this because if her mental health problems are in your view seriously in need of treatment there are steps you can take without her permission (which would be in her best interests long term).

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