How to improve wife sex drive? - or am I doomed?

[RDerby]

Ok, I know this is 'mumsnet' and I'm a dad rather than a mum but I am after a female perspective on whether I am being unreasonable.

My wife has never been overly interested in sex with me - when we first stated going out it was maybe 3 times a week. We got maried witihn 2 years and even by then it had dropped to once a week. It's really been downhill from there (been married 10 year next year - two kids 5 & 2.5). For the last two years it has been at most once a month (me always initiating) - which I think technically is a sexless marriage (

i was in your position OP and we ultimately split but i'd suggest you stay open minded as to what the issues are on your DW's side, ask her to attend counselling with you and counteract the inevitable low self esteem by hitting the gym or doing exercise or a hobby

i'd also accept that you can't control the situation - there is a chance you will start to go through stages of grief for your marriage and the family unit you aspire to - if and when you get angry promise yourself that you'll take that anger to the gym (or wherever) and try not to let it infect your household

i'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry - i think you do actually as i think your DW is being very unfair in not communicating honestly with you - her messages are very mixed and it sounds like avoidance tactics to me

I did wince a bit at the title of the thread. 'How to improve wife sex drive'.

It makes it sound so abstract, like there is a problem with a piece of machinery.

Maybe things will improve when your little one is a pre-schooler and getting more independent?

You talk about when you try and initiate sex and get rejected, it ends up in a row.

1. She is not rejecting you as a person, she is rejecting sex. You are muddling the two.
2. The fact it ends up in a row is a very bad dynamic. Partners should be able to say they don't want sex, and for that to be accepted with good grace. This dynamic is bound to set up a lot of bad feeling and resentment around the issue of sex.
3. Once a month is not a sexless marriage.
4. Are you talking about sex to only mean penetrative sex? Maybe if you had sex sometimes in other ways without penetration she might enjoy that more?
5. Are you doing your fair share around the house? Don't underestimate the impact this has on a relationship.

Yes branching, a very good point. Maybe the OP isn't seeing his wife as a real person?

Grennie, on your 5 see the OP's last para - it sounds like a fair contribution but i take your point if its not a desire issue it could well be some form of resentment that is the underlying cause

I would be resentful if everytime I said no it ended up in a row.

I really have an issue with sex being part of a marital contract.

I never signed anything that said 'I promise to have sex with my husband and like it whenever he wants it like a good little 1950s wife'

OP I think you really need to communicate properly with your wife about why she's feeling like she is, and what SHE feels she's getting out of the marriage. As others have said, with a toddler and a job and the usual day to day stuff, thinking about sex is just exhausting on top of everything else.

To be honest, you sound a bit too obsessive about the sex thing.

I don't understand these people who think sex is the be all and end all.

Grennie, absolutely, me too.

A wife is not a sex-on-tap machine.

When was the last time you went on a date? Can you get a babysitter?
It seems like if this is your only problem it's worth at least trying to work on it. I think taking 'not tonight darling' as rejection is a bit strong. It is either biological or social conditioning but women say no to sex more than men (just ask thicke).

Fuck me. I don't recall having regular sex as being one of my marriage vows but if it was then my husband has every right to divorce me right now as hugely pregnant, SPd and completely knackered with 3 year old to look after leaves me wanting sleep not sex.
But you know what? My husband doesn't 'need' sex. He won't die without it. Yes I know he would like it but because he loves me he understands why it isnt my top priority.
Wellwobblys post makes me incredibly sad for women who think they have to have sex to keep their man happy. That's a shit reason to have sex.

Sorry name wasn't a piss take just on team AF.

I think you need to change your attitude OP

I think there's a few attitudes on this thread that need changing.

WTF Wellwobbley?

Sex is what separates romantic relationships from friendships and I think sex is very much part of most people's expectations of marriage. Otherwise people would marry friends (it would probably last longer in many cases). Withdrawing sex from a marriage with only one partner's perspective taken into account is asking for trouble long term.

However, demanding sex with only one partner's perspective taken into account is equally problematic, if not more so, as its logical extension is rape.

The solution is compromise. Ideally, it's a compromise that doesn't really need to be discussed most of the time if people are sexually compatible, find each other attractive and have a healthy, equal relationship. Life-pressures may upset the balance from time to time, but in most healthy relationships one person accepts a temporary lull in sex as a result without getting angry about it even if they miss it.

Long-term absence of sex needs discussing though. It cannot be brushed under the carpet. For most people it will result in a loss of emotional intimacy as well as physical intimacy, and that's when marriages can get into trouble. Of course, if both parties are happy with the lack of sex, it's not a problem at all.

There is sex happening, just not as much as the OP wants. No it is not about his wife compromising. Women have the right to say no to sex and for that to be respected. Instead the OP's reaction to her no leads to rows.

How cruel of her to tell you how many times she used to have sex with her ex given the lack of sex issue in your marriage.

The truth whether you want to believe it or not is your wife was never really interested in you and she is only with you because she felt the pressure to get married.
You are probably a decent enough guy but ultimately there was no 'chemistry' between you two.

Ultimately you ARE her second best.

You need to move on tbh because it will only get worse and you will get more miserable.

It seems women feel pressured or pressurise themselves to be in a any relationship, that's why sometimes women stay with unsuitable men because its easier to to be in a 'relationship' than being single.

Glad to see the stepfords are out in force today

OP, you and dw need a frank discussion, but you clearly have mismatched sex drives and have from the outset by what you describe.

I can't imagine the situation will change for the better - you are yearning for a sex life you've never actually had (with her) it seems.

If its a deal breaker for you to have so little sex I think a split is the best for both of you. Bubbling resentments under the surface will ruin all your lives eventually if not sorted out one way or the other.

1. She is not rejecting you as a person, she is rejecting sex. You are muddling the two.

All well and good written down and probably true but we see so many posts on MN of women and men feeling rejected and shitty when continually being rejected by their partner. They can't help how it makes them feel. And saying that won't stop them feeling shite either every time they want to show affection and get told 'NO'!

OP - I have a real issue with your post. You do not mention LOVE at all here. Do you love your wife?
You mention you don't want to leave because of DDs but what about your wife?
And she works full time as well don't forget. I'm sure when she's not at work she isn't at home with her feet up doing bugger all!???

That said - I couldn't live like you do.
I would suggest counselling as well.

Her rejection of your advances should also never end in a row!! Why would it? She says 'NO' you back off and leave it for another day.

Other option is to discuss an open marriage with her. She may feel this is a good option if she really doesn't want to have sex with you at all. Certainly not for everyone and very controversial but maybe????...

In France this is a commonly used reason for divorce: irregular or absent sexual relations over a course of 30 consecutive days. seriously little or no sex for 30 consecutive days is considered a reason for divorce, fucking hell DPR and I would have been divor ed a few times then, except we aren't married.

We have been together over 15 yes and have five children and our sex life, like most people's has its ups and downs depending on 101 different variables!

Dp wouldn't want me to have sex out of 'duty's' sake and it would in fact be a huge turn off for him if he knew I was not really up for it but was'putting out' becauss i felt i should.

As adults dp and I are well aware that sometimes we may want more or less sex than each other and can talk and be understanding about it. And to be blunt we are both capable of sorting ourselves out if we need to.

Sex isn't the only way to be close, affection etc is important and I agree that sex other than penetration is good as well and can be fulfilling for both partners.

I am gobsmacked by some of the attitudes on this thread.

Op if you are only staying in the relationship for your children then you need to leave tbh. Or do you love your wife! Do you chat, make each other laugh, feel supported, are you friends etc? There is more to a relationship than just sex, if srx is the only problem it can be worked on.

Also your youngest is a similar age to my youngest, its a great age, coming out of the fog of the baby days bug it can still be tiring and relentless etc. I finally feel I am getting more 'me' time etc and life is getting easier but there are def days where I feel totally touched out and I am also wanting to focus on myself for a bit, my partner understands that and Is encouraging of it.

Would you (or, just as importantly, her) have issues with an 'open' relationship as a possible way to resolve this if you've exhausted all other avenues?

If it comes down to one person really wanting sex and the other really not wanting sex, the person who doesn't want it has to 'win'. Anything other than that is rape or sexual assault. I'm sure most partners, however frustrated, would not want that.

Most couples experience peaks and troughs. Most decent people are fine about it for a reasonable period of time. Most men I know, for example, accepted that sex was off the cards completely for the first year after a baby unless their wives instigated it, and even after that they accepted that for the years of young children sleep would be prioritised over sex when it came to the bedroom. Quite often they were equally desperate for sleep (especially if they were doing their fair share with baby/toddler and around the house). I know one man who had no penetrative sex for 4 years due to his wife's birth injuries. He never once complained - quite rightly so - because he realised that the consequence for his wife was way worse than his sexual frustration.

However, injuries and ill-health aside, and not counting the early years with young children when most couples have less sex I think, I still think that lack of sex long-term will be a problem in most relationships. Personally, I don't think once a month is too bad with a toddler on the scene, but I sense the problem is that the OP feels it is duty sex - that his wife is 'performing' it to keep him sweet rather than because she loves and desires him. We all want to feel loved, desired and cherished by our partners; it's a reasonable expectation.

Only the OP knows if he's really doing his bit with the children and housework, if he's meeting his wife's emotional needs and helping her to have a life of her own. It's been pointed out to him by several posters that he needs to do these things. That's down to him to assess.

Assuming that he is doing all these things though, if the person with low or no libido doesn't want to have more/any sex though, the only solution is to accept a sexless marriage either for now or indefinitely, agree mutually on an open marriage or part ways. If it's already been talked it to death, what other option is there?

Personally I think if open marriages were more accepted and seen less as a taboo, there would be fewer divorces.

You can't change someone and constantly talking about it puts them off more! It gets worse rather than better as the pressure builds as you have found out.

You say you wouldn't leave due to the reasons explained but what if she said "look if you feel that strongly then perhaps we should divorce".....what would your reaction be then?

It's frustrating what you are feeling as it is for many men and women in the world but I can't see how you can change her if the desire isn't there in the first place.

Sounds like she settled for a "safe bet" as someone else said having already had the experience of a lustful but turbulent relationship previously. It's never nice to realise that though!

OP, You need to quit whining. As adults, each and every single one of us is responsible for his or her own happiness and contentment. If you wife doesn't shag you enough for your taste and you have tried (and apparently failed) to make it work for you, then it is YOUR choice whether to sit there and put up with it, or to make the call and choose to be happy in a different situation. All I see when I read you posts is fear - your fear of what might happen if you were to decided that your happiness is actually important also.

There are many intellectually dishonest women here (because lets face it, its their 'space') who would butter you up to either just accept your wife's position and do nothing, or to convince you that it must actually be your fault - I give you Grennie's posts for example. If you were female, they would quite likely be saying something else entirely. They are not all like this, but on an inherently gynocentric forum, many are.

You need to quit being afraid, have a frank and adult discussion with your wife about your unhappiness, and then ACT. For god sake ACT, and actually do something following on from that. Do not be passive in relation to your own happiness.