I've invited the OW for dinner - mistake?

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Brief background, altho I have posted about this before - my husband has become good friends with a woman at work. They work in different offices in different parts of country but for same company. He trained her etc which is how they met and they meet up with work eveyr month or so. They share a hobby in common and always go to lunch or for drinks when she's across at his office. She's a lot younger than him and is really stunning looking. She is married with children (as are we!) I've been very jealous of her and anxious about how much hubby seems to like her. He emails her several times a day including when at home and basically none of it is work related, just chat. He said he likes her tons and they are good friends. I've snooped a lot and never found anything dodge but all the chat seems a bit flirty to me not because they are explicity flirting but because they so clearly like each other and bounce mails back and forth. Not texts as far as I can see although hubs says they chat on the phone at work a bit.

Anyway, I've met her a few times at social events but I've kind of snubbed her and not been very friendly. Hubby mentioned that she and her husband and kids are coming to our area during half term to see friends and I've invited them all for dinner. I'm doing it as I want to see her and hubby together and I also want to get to know her. Feel if I can make it all 'above board' with us all friendly together, it will take any excitement out of it for them, or mamke it less likely to develop into something.

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?! I worry I'm facilitating something I should be shutting down. Should I cancel?

I don't think anything is going on, yes they seem to get on well but that's all it is. You seem very insecure about yourself though - I find it really hard to understand you think your hubby cant have a friendship with someone who is younger. As for her apparent beauty - you think shes attractive but he said he doesn't - why wouldn't you believe him? everyone finds different people attractive - point in question - read the kim kardashian thread - lots of people saying shes lovely but sorry I don't think she is attractive at all - same with Angelina jolie - there is just something about her I don't like at all - im sure others find her attractive too.

If I was in your hubbys shoes and you asked the womans hubby what he thought about our relationship I would be absolutely livid. its rude and it would make you look neurotic. would you really say in RL to someone else "what do you think of my hubby liking your wife?" no you wouldn't. All you are trying to do is cause trouble between them so they don't speak - that's really sad and for me would be a dealbreaker in our relationship - you will push him away.

Neurotic now, causing trouble, pushing him away... nice.

Yeah, OP, just suck it up. Don't fgs express your concern, get back in your box woman!

I don't understand something on MN, which is this complete ban on opposite sex friendships.

I have loads of male friends at work - I need them - there are virtually no women at my level anyway. God forbid that any wife thinks of me as some kind of threat. It's not like that. It's finding mates at work!

Good on you OP for inviting her over. But why exactly are you referring to her as the OW when she is just a good workplace buddy? Bit nuts, no?

Yes, really. Absolutely.

That's bonkers.

I would never allow my partner to dictate who I was 'allowed' to be friends with.

And I have had a partner who tried to do that. He was, in short a nutter who I am well rid of.

There are far too many threads like this on mn and they all follow the same script. You can spot the signs.

I defer to your greater experience. But you are, I think, cherry-picking your signs. Snooping and spying has revealed nothing untoward or even flirtatious going on, by the OP's own admission. That is a sign of innocence. But now the fact that they are even communicating at all is being taken as a sign of guilt, regardless of the innocence of the messages!

Engineering a dinner invitation? Planning to ask the woman's husband what he thinks of her friendship, over dessert? This is just severely fucked up.

Stop. Think. Is there an innocent explanation?

He's excited because a friend is coming to dinner. I don't know, perhaps OP and her OH don't often entertain so it's quite a rare and special occasion. He could be excited because he wants his wife to get on with his new friend. I don't think asking your partner about how to dress is suspicious -- if anything it shows how much he values her opinion.

Like I say I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but this thread has car-crash potential of the first magnitude.

Firstly Charity, please don't call me 'bonkers' because you have a different opinion. It's insulting to me and insulting to people with mental health problems.

Also, the OP is clearly not 'a nutter' as you so charmingly label your ex, she is a woman who is allowed to express her fears and concerns and I happen to agree that, if her gut instinct is telling her that something is not right with this one 'friendship', then it is likely to be true.

Engineering a dinner invitation? Planning to ask the woman's husband what he thinks of her friendship, over dessert? This is just severely fucked up.

No, these are the actions of a person trying to rationalise the discrepancies between what they are being told and what they see going on. In almost all cases of affairs, emotional or otherwise, where the guilty party lies to their partner, the partner knows that something doesn't add up.

They can often go snooping and spying and find nothing for months on end. Did you notice that OP said she almost wished she did find something incriminating because then she would have evidence? This is a perfectly normal and natural reaction when someone is cheating on you but won't admit it.

Now, he may not be physically cheating(yet) but he is continuing a relationship which is causing his wife distress. Why? Why does he fob her off? There is more to this.

I'm with Charity, at least in that it would be entirely reasonable for the husband to react badly if the OP issues him with an ultimation if there is in fact nothing going wrong.

I will never understand the MN contingent that tries to ban male-female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage. I would never expect that or stand for that in a relationship. We'd all recognise it as controlling if a man did it. It is controlling and it has entirely unrealistic expectations of what a monogomous relationship can provide.

I agree with others that the husband sounds like he's got a crush, but this isn't an "OW". The problem is I bet the OP will take anything as "evidence" of the "affair", even though it seems like there isn't any yet.

I did this. Xh took great delight in spending time on the phone organising it. We had an awkward lunch. She had her guided tour of our home. I hated it.

6 months later I spoke to her husband again when he called to tell me he'd found evidence of their affair.

My instincts were right all along. And I've always had lots of male friends and no jealous tendencies. I look back and cringe but I didn't feel I had a choice at the time.

We'd all recognise it as controlling if a man did it.

Yy to this.

Op these posters are feeding your anxieties. Why don't you just have her and her husband over for dinner and be friendly and then see how you feel.

I very nearly decided not to post on this thread again, however your last post is so riddled with daftness that I couldn't leave it. I will (probably) not respond again, however (although I'm not guaranteeing it).

So here goes:

Firstly Charity, please don't call me 'bonkers' because you have a different opinion. It's insulting to me and insulting to people with mental health problems.

I have mental health problems, and I'm not offended by it.

I didn't mean that you were bonkers, I said what you were saying was bonkers.

Also, the OP is clearly not 'a nutter' as you so charmingly label your ex, she is a woman who is allowed to express her fears and concerns and I happen to agree that, if her gut instinct is telling her that something is not right with this one 'friendship', then it is likely to be true.

I did not label OP a nutter, that is wholly your inference.

Everyone is of course entitled to express fears and concerns. But when those fears and concerns are not backed up by evidence it is also rational to ask how realistic those concerns are.

I disagree that gut instinct is necessarily a reliable guide to the actions of others.

No, these are the actions of a person trying to rationalise the discrepancies between what they are being told and what they see going on.

You are ignoring the fact that snooping on DH's emails has turned up absolutely nothing that even hints at a guilty secret. Unless of course, he's laying a false trail and knows that his wife is secretly reading his emails. That's it! Perhaps the emails are in a secret code! Start working on decoding them at once, then his game will be up! By God, we've got you now!

Sheesh.

In almost all cases of affairs, emotional or otherwise, where the guilty party lies to their partner, the partner knows that something doesn't add up.

This isn't sound logic. For a start, he hasn't been caught lying. For a second, suspicion does not equal guilt.

They can often go snooping and spying and find nothing for months on end. Did you notice that OP said she almost wished she did find something incriminating because then she would have evidence? This is a perfectly normal and natural reaction when someone is cheating on you but won't admit it.

It's also a perfectly normal and natural reaction for a paranoid individual whose increasingly convoluted theories are threatened by the evidence. Or lack thereof.

Now, he may not be physically cheating(yet) but he is continuing a relationship which is causing his wife distress. Why?

Perhaps because she's being totally unreasonable and he hopes that the forthcoming dinner which OP, not DH, initiated (ever heard of mixed signals?) will go smoothly?

What's he meant to do, say: "Yes, well, my wife did invite you to dinner, but now she says I must never talk to you again. Sorry and goodbye, although we still have to work together."

Spelled out like that, don't you think OP looks a bit ... odd?

Why does he fob her off? There is more to this.

Ah, so he's not acting guilty, therefore he's guilty!

This is witch-hunt logic at its finest and although I could be wrong I think you and others are doing OP a grave disservice by encouraging what quite frankly appear to me to be delusions.

Hear, hear Charity

Charity and Stranger
No one, least of all al shadowy 'contingent' is 'banning' anything.
No one has said that the OP's husband is having a physical affair.
Rather, posters are saying that the OP should be allowed to express her disquiet and, indeed, anxiety at - what even you, Stranger admit sounds like a 'crush'.
Her husband rubbishing her feelings, while rushing around all excited texting is disrespectful and hurtful.
Constant jealousy about random other people is not something that should ever be present in a relationship - but nowhere has the OP expressed that
BTW, where is the OP?

I would be very suspicious of this "friendship" - even if it is not an affair as such the OPs Dh is investing too much time in and effort in this woman.

I will never understand the MN contingent that tries to ban male-female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage.

Who is in this contingent? Who, on this thread, has said that he should not have female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage? Where are you getting this from, did I miss it?

It's just this one relationship that OP has a problem with.

OP posted about this 3 months ago. It was bothering her then and it's still bothering her now. What is the point in telling her what she should feel?

Listen to what she is saying.

Maybe you should put a link here to your other thread OP, so that posters can see that you don't have any objection to him being friends with women, that this relationship is eating you up and you can't just put those niggles to one side.

Personally I think op is investing too much time and energy in this woman.

I don't know whether we have a paranoid bunny-boiling wife or a predatory work-colleague. Either one of those scenarios is (remotely) possible. Why can't we opt for normalcy? Just, sheesh, do the cooking, entertain, have fun.

If DH demanded to check my emails and texts to male friends, I would, in all seriousness, divorce him. Is ridiculous behaviour. Either he trusts me or he doesn't.

I agree with amother and DH and I never have friendships with the opposite sex in the way we did before we were married as when he's not working we tend to ring or talk to each other and seek each other out.
Obviously other friendships matter but IMO it's very dodgy to think ok to put as much into this friendship as he has especially when you're feeling threatened- he should want to put you first so it does ring alarm bells that you should strengthen you own time together if you can

If DH demanded to check my emails and texts to male friends, I would, in all seriousness, divorce him. Is ridiculous behaviour. Either he trusts me or he doesn't.

Me too. That situation would be utterly unacceptable as the culmination of events. As the first event in a potential sequence of ever-increasing control, it is what a divorce lawyer would call 'unreasonable behaviour'.

Mumsnet is not an entity where everyone group thinks.

So there are a few posters who no doubt disagree with mixed sex friendships and would seek to ban them, but they are a complete rarity IME.

This is a straw man.

No reasonable person seeks to ban friendships outside of a monogamous relationship.

But only a very naive person would believe that all mixed sex friendships are always platonic and never grow into affairs.

The only people who can stop that happening though are the friends. Their partners can't and what's more shouldn't. It's not a spouse's job to police the fidelity in their relationship and ward off threats and attacks to it. Which is why this dinner is a disastrous idea.

It's fine for a spouse to say 'this friendship makes me uncomfortable and gives me concerns' and for those concerns to be listened to.

It's also fine to state expectations e.g. I will question the future of our relationship if you continue to invest more in this other relationship than our own.

But then it's up to the other spouse what he will do, knowing how his partner feels and the risks he's taking if he chooses to carry on causing concern and contributing to such a rift in his personal relationship.

I wish more people, instead of snooping, policing and warding off interlopers, would just say what their expectations are and hold partners to them if they've been agreed. And vote with their feet if they are aren't met.

But I have to say I think one of the reasons this happens so much and why people take so much erroneous responsibility for their partners' fidelity is because we've got a terrible culture of blaming faithful parties for the other's cheating.

Maybe if this stopped happening, women like the OP wouldn't feel compelled to act in this way.

Whether you are right or wrong in this will depend on what your DH is like with other friends - has he had "little obsessions" before? when he has a best friend, does he contact them alot? Has there been male or female friends in the past that he's been close too?

If not, if this is very unusual behaviour for him, then it could be that he does feel more for her than other friends. He might not want to admit it, he might not want to be "that guy" but this does sound like he's attracted, even if he's not prepared to admit it to himself or do anything about it.

It might be the meal will make it better in his head because he's not doing anything wrong, all four of us (him, you, her, her DH) are friends. It's not like he's sneeking around, that's what men having affairs do. That's not what he's doing.

I would say if it's unusual for him, then this is a crush (which she may or may not share), if this is common behaviour for him, you might just be reacting stronger because you see her as a threat due to being younger and pretty.

I also wish OPs wouldn't start a thread and then bugger off

*"I will never understand the MN contingent that tries to ban male-female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage."

Who is in this contingent? Who, on this thread, has said that he should not have female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage? Where are you getting this from, did I miss it?*

Oh come on, do you really need me to provide footnotes? That sort of sentiment is expressed on here all the time.

I wouldn't like this behaviour at all, and I'm pretty relaxed about my husband's female friends and vice versa. Too much texting/emailing, no acknowledgement that this is upsetting, interfering with your evenings, and that's just what you know about. If I were sitting here emailing another guy who had become my best friend then my husband would have reason to be worried. I wouldn't, though, and I wouldn't expect him to either.

See, this is what I mean about MN being ridiculous about opposite sex friendships ...

It's all borne out of women being fearful and suspicious of other women IMO. This sort of mentality is harmful. It's not just harmful in your own relationships, it's harmful to the wider cause of gender equality. I worry about the lack of confidence it betrays - why are you worried and frightened by same sex friendships?

Oh come on, do you really need me to provide footnotes? That sort of sentiment is expressed on here all the time

On this thread? Where?

I don't see anybody here responding with automatic suspicion about a platonic friendship (and I certainly have no issues with them in RL). What I see is a woman concerned that her husband is mooching around like a lovesick puppy over the woman he emails several times a day. Who does that, really? It's so far past normal friendship behaviour as to be ridiculous.