I've invited the OW for dinner - mistake?

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Brief background, altho I have posted about this before - my husband has become good friends with a woman at work. They work in different offices in different parts of country but for same company. He trained her etc which is how they met and they meet up with work eveyr month or so. They share a hobby in common and always go to lunch or for drinks when she's across at his office. She's a lot younger than him and is really stunning looking. She is married with children (as are we!) I've been very jealous of her and anxious about how much hubby seems to like her. He emails her several times a day including when at home and basically none of it is work related, just chat. He said he likes her tons and they are good friends. I've snooped a lot and never found anything dodge but all the chat seems a bit flirty to me not because they are explicity flirting but because they so clearly like each other and bounce mails back and forth. Not texts as far as I can see although hubs says they chat on the phone at work a bit.

Anyway, I've met her a few times at social events but I've kind of snubbed her and not been very friendly. Hubby mentioned that she and her husband and kids are coming to our area during half term to see friends and I've invited them all for dinner. I'm doing it as I want to see her and hubby together and I also want to get to know her. Feel if I can make it all 'above board' with us all friendly together, it will take any excitement out of it for them, or mamke it less likely to develop into something.

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?! I worry I'm facilitating something I should be shutting down. Should I cancel?

I think our posts have to be balanced and I'm satisfied that mine are. I see no reason to take 'sides'.

I think the OP does have reason to feel threatened by a man who says he doesn't have to put any safeguards in place in a friendship, because this is naive and dangerous, if not regarding this new friend but others in the future, like I said upthread.

I can see no posts that depict men as lying, cheating sexual opportunists, or other women as potentially homewrecking predators. These are straw men again and insulting to the vast majority of sensible posters on this thread and others.

I certainly don't think like that, Shapechanger, and I'm not projecting from my experience either, as this hasn't happened to me. All I can say is that if you are in a good committed relationship, you respect each other and have each other as your main focus rather than other individuals. I get that if your partner doesn't meet your needs/interests in a particular area - let's say they aren't much of a reader but you are, you might plug that gap with a book group or online chat etc.- then they won't be your go-to person for that thing. However, the OP seems to be saying that her husband has checked out in favour of this other woman in particular in all the areas she thought they had in common. Who wouldn't feel uneasy about that?

Welcome back, OP.

I don't think you are crazy. I feel sorry for how you feel (and don't mean that in a patronising way, it must be horrible).

There are different views on here. I am very much in favour of friendships outside marriage - of all kinds, and with people of both sexes. No truck with outside sexual relationships but I also think flirting, if that's all it is, is pretty harmless. I find the idea that life becomes so limited after marriage that things that don't constitute unfaithfulness are off limits simply because it's assumed that is what they will turn into, oppressive and joyless.

I don't just want to invite her so I can spy on their relationship

This is good, because it will end in tears if you are, it's better that you are keeping an open mind.

MN is great and there is a lot of support for other women (support that I have been very grateful for). But having been on here for many years, in different incarnations at different stages in my life, I have come to the conclusion that there is some bias.

Specifically, there is a lot of suspicion of men, an assumption among many that they are all lying, cheating bastards, opportunists who will have affairs given the chance. That bias is because MN is where lots of people turn when their relationships go very wrong. 'Relationships' is a sounding board for a population that has a more than normal percentage who are victims of trainwreck relationships.

There are people on here whose own bitter experience is projected onto others. Who were cheated on, and assume all men are cheats. Who will tell you horror stories they mean to be salutary. Beware of letting it cloud your views.

I hope that you will give this woman a chance and keep an open mind. I do think it's unreasonable of you to call her the 'OW' with no evidence, though this is obviously what she is in your head.

With luck, meeting as families will normalise everything. If you and your dh have a good relationship and things in common (and it sounds like you do) and he likes her a lot, then there is every chance that you will like her also and find you have things in common. And it will be a new connection that makes everyone happy.

Apart from anything else, your husband sounds like too nice a guy to invite another man into his house who he is cuckolding, or intending to.

He may have a crush on this woman, but that can be harmless as well. I get 'crushes' on both men and women, but they are not sexual, it is more to do with the excitement of connecting with a new, interesting person. And that shouldn't necessarily be outlawed by marriage. Just because you have these jealous feelings doesn't itself validate them, though many on here would say it does.

He's not hiding anything from you as far as I can see. Which makes me think: 'not guilty'.

Any my perspective is that a lot of people who have affairs are not lying cheating bastards, opportunists who will have affairs given the chance but are ordinary kind people in perfectly fine marriages who assume they have an immunity from drifting into an affair that they never started out wanting to have. So they don't put any safeguards in place when they met a new exciting friend and when that friendship crosses a line, they will often wonder with hindsight how the hell it happened.

My perspective is also that it is wholly naive to assume that affairs never happen 'in plain sight' of the respective spouses and families. They do.

And like BOF this has never happened to me either. But nearly all the affairs I've ever seen in real life started out this way, with nice people who had terrible or non-existent boundaries.

I understand the feelings you are having OP but it does seem like they're unfounded. You've snooped and found nothing, he's been completely transparent about the whole thing and you just have a 'feeling' You've also said you wouldn't have any problems with any of his behaviour if it was a man. The whole thing seems to be based on the fact you think she's very attractive, you think your husband is very attractive and you think her husband isn't up to much in the attractiveness stakes. Again, those feelings are understandable but pretty unfair and disrespectful to all three parties.

I do the email thing, with both male and female friends, always have whether in a relationship or not. Not as much as I used to as I'm on mat leave so I'm not in front of a computer the same. But I'd say the time I do spend on a computer/tablet/phone also includes regular daily emails to friends.

I find the suggestion that your husband 'must put safeguards in place' to stop him from having an affair pretty awful tbh.

I hope it all works out for you and you have a nice time on Wednesday.

Agree with shape that there's too much bitter projected paranoid here (don't need to name them as they will identify themselves by launching personal attack on me rather than what I say shortly!) but if you want to put a "safeguard" in place make friends and be nice to this woman. I know one of the reasons i let an EA deepen was because his exw never attemped even the most causual friendliness towards me at the school gate (well before my dh and I had even spoken). If she had, I would have had more respect towards her and not let the EA even start.

People of the opposite sex can be close friends. I would probably hold the meal with an open non suspicious mind and then reflect upon how things went at the end if the evening.

I think there's something in that unashemed. I think people play the roles they are given.

I think it's telling that the most loaded parts of the OP's posts are when she describes the woman, not her DH's behaviour. She seems as much envious of this woman as she is made jealous by her husband. But who wouldn't want to be young and pretty and clever?

This is what I hear you saying OP.

Your dh's behaviour has changed since meeting this woman.

You have told him how you feel and he has not done anything to ally your fears.

You have never felt like this before with any other person, male or female.

Your gut instinct is that something about this relationship that is different to all his other relationships.

He refuses to acknowledge that, so you are left with the imbalance between what you know, see, hear and what he tells you.

For example, she's just a friend - he says - email her several times a day - he does

Because these two statements don't correlate with each other, there is an imbalance.

You are suspicious enough to look for evidence.

All of these are signs that he is becoming emotionalyl involved with this woman. I would still give him the ultimatum tbh. If he would rather lose me than this one friend, so be it. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me anyway.

FWIW, I think the issue here is that the OP's DH is not listening to the OP and respecting her feelings.

I don't think it's controlling or grounds for a divorce to ask him to stop investing as much time and emotion in this woman as he currently is.

Something similar happened with my DH - I found some texts on his phone from someone he'd had a thing with many years ago (pre-me) and they had remained good friends, which didn't bother me. However I found the tone on some of the texts inappropriate, along with several kisses at the end of each one, and confronted him about it.
He was absolutely mortified, and apologised for the obvious upset I was feeling. He reassured me that nothing was going on, and accepted that the tone of the texts was inappropriate, and has cut down his texting to her.

To me, that is the logical and respectful response from a husband who loves you and does not want an affair.

Not to be defensive, act like its normal, and be bouncing around excitedly at the anticipation of a visit.

It seems unlikely that they're having an affair, but the issue here is totally your DH's attitude.

Is it just me but I don't think she is an "OW" - she is your husband's friend.

My DP has lots of female friends - some younger and more attractive than me - who he gets on with, has a good laugh with and is in contact with.

I don't see the problem here. Sure, your DH is excited about her coming round, but she's his friend, that's normal.

I agree with garlicvampire on the mentionitis - he won't accept criticism of her or their friendship etc. and instead of being concerned about YOUR feelings, he says you have a jealousy problem. nice! I have a good male friend that could easily be seen to be crossing boundaries, but I would be mortified if my husband told me he was concerned in any way, and I would take pains to let him know that HIS feelings were my FIRST priority!!

I can't tell for sure but I think this has been one-way. Good luck on Wednesday, OP. As someone said days' ago, if H has only known her in a work setting, seeing her with little children and husband in tow might give a rounder picture.

Fwiw I was a SAHM Wuldric but being unsalaried didn't distort my perceptions or make me prone to jealousy - I just sensed when my DH found a female's company stimulating and enjoyable. That was me having been with him long enough to know him.

If DH was emailing a woman several times a day and I told him I felt uncomfortable with it, he would stop.

OP doesn't have a jealousy problem. She has a disrespectful husband problem.

Infidelity has never been a problem in any relationship I've ever had. I have male friends and my previous partners have always had female friends, some of them very close. That's my own background.

IMO platonic male/female friendships do exist. I have them. However, they require self-awareness. You need to address the issue of sexual attraction. If it genuinely doesn't exist on either side, fantastic. If it does, however, you need to be aware of it, own it and decide how you're going to safeguard against it.

I don't think the OP is being paranoid. I don't know her, her DH, or their lives well enough to know if her fears are accurate, but they are not irrational.

What jumps out to me is this paragraph, in which her DH says:

'So because she has a vagina I need to make a plan for being careful not to fall into it?' shock and went on to say that if this were a male friend I'd have no problems (true) and that it's purely because he is a man and she is a woman, which is ridiculous. He also said if I don't trust him to be faithful then I clearly don't have much regard for him and asked what I think he should do, stop contacting a good friend that he really likes because I don't like the fact she is female?

He's right to some extent. I would take huge exception at anyone telling me I can't have a relationship with the opposite sex because I might end up having an affair. However, unless the OP has shown trust issues before (and she says she hasn't), if a partner of mine said that to me, my first reaction would be, "what make you think I'm in danger of having an affair with this person?" Cue long chat about the relationship, the behaviour causing concern, the issues of boundaries, etc. What should then happen is a much-relieved DW and a more aware/cautious DH even though the relationship between the DH and his friend may well continue.

In a long relationship, where either or both partner have had other friendships of the opposite sex that haven't caused problems, the only time I've known someone get offended by having their platonic friendship questioned is when one partner is either repeatedly jealous and possessive, or the other is having (or is at risk of) an affair and is deflecting attention.

Agree with you dahlen. OP's H is too defensive - a calm and sensible discussion could have ensued.

FWIW I think that your gut instinct is not to be ignored because you say you have never felt like this before. I was the same. I had never felt jealous or uneasy in the 30 years prior to H's meeting his (later) OW.

Hmmm, I think if it were a male friend AND he was behaving the same way you would still have a problem because his current behaviour is inappropriate, and would be inappropriate no matter who it was about.

His attack on your feelings is telling - he knows he's being inappropriate at some level but wants to continue so is putting it all on you. He does not sound very self aware (and I agree with Dahlen, to have proper male-female friendships that don't cross the line, you need self awareness) and I think this is where the danger lies.

Dahlens' last 2 paragraphs are spot on - well actually the whole post is, but these in particular! For your DH to be dealing with this properly, your conversations should result in "a much relieved DW" - which isn't happening.

Are you still going ahead with the dinner OP?

This is a tricky one, if you are not by nature a suspicious person then I feel you should follow your intuition. If it was me in your situation I would want concrete evidence of his reaction (and hers) during your meal. However unethical it may be to record the meal I think I would. I would want to watch as an observer and ask a friend what they thought. If his or her reaction/actions are out of phase with what he is trying to project then I would consider my next move. Trying to put but not put my emotion aside, iykwim, to think through the possible senarios and outcomes. If and it would be a big if, his behaviour was 'odd' then I would say, 'no you listen, you are interested in this woman, I am not ok with this,'......'I need time to think'.

And do not engage until you are ready. Speak your fears to you those around you that you love, talk to people, reflect on what you need in order to stay with someone who puts another woman in your (you and him) path.

If she was just a friend he would not act like a lovesick teenager on heat.

I don't understand the assumption that I'm a SAHM? What is this perception that women who stay at home have too much time to fret about what their big husband is up to away at the fancy office all day?!? I'm a very successful professional - I earn a hell of a lot more than my husband and am high up in my chosen career. I still have time to snoop though. Call it a hobby.

Yes I'm going ahead, don't feel I can cancel now - what would I even tell DH??

Well if it's going ahead, make sure you are fully prepared. What can we help you with? Do you want to stay in the background at bit so that you can observe without being noticed much?

YGM, the digs about you being a SAHM and having "too much time on your hands" are from the same set of bollocks that blame women for nagging their husbands into entering the vaginas of other women. Ignore condescending claptrap like that.

If you want to cancel the dinner, cancel it. Tell your H what you like, he isn't listening to a fucking word you say anyway. Don't do anything that makes you uncomfortable...your H is making a damn fine job of that all by himself.

However unethical it may be to record the meal I think I would.

Are you fucking serious??

This thread is surreal.

I think the sahm thing was more did you not see friendships between men and women at your own work.

When's the dinner?