I've invited the OW for dinner - mistake?

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Brief background, altho I have posted about this before - my husband has become good friends with a woman at work. They work in different offices in different parts of country but for same company. He trained her etc which is how they met and they meet up with work eveyr month or so. They share a hobby in common and always go to lunch or for drinks when she's across at his office. She's a lot younger than him and is really stunning looking. She is married with children (as are we!) I've been very jealous of her and anxious about how much hubby seems to like her. He emails her several times a day including when at home and basically none of it is work related, just chat. He said he likes her tons and they are good friends. I've snooped a lot and never found anything dodge but all the chat seems a bit flirty to me not because they are explicity flirting but because they so clearly like each other and bounce mails back and forth. Not texts as far as I can see although hubs says they chat on the phone at work a bit.

Anyway, I've met her a few times at social events but I've kind of snubbed her and not been very friendly. Hubby mentioned that she and her husband and kids are coming to our area during half term to see friends and I've invited them all for dinner. I'm doing it as I want to see her and hubby together and I also want to get to know her. Feel if I can make it all 'above board' with us all friendly together, it will take any excitement out of it for them, or mamke it less likely to develop into something.

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?! I worry I'm facilitating something I should be shutting down. Should I cancel?

But that isn't what the thread is about. It's about a man who has already crossed a line by getting involved with a woman

Where 'involved' = 'friends with'

whom he is messaging almost obsessively,

That is a characterisation of your own invention. I have just been back and read every single one of OP's posts, and she nowhere mentions daily numbers of emails, let alone gives any justification for using the word 'obsessively'.

I'm willing to concede that they message each other quite often, but hey, it's the 21st Century, half our relationships are conducted online in one way or another.

and is disregarding his wife's justifiable disquiet about it.

A more objective reading of OP's posts to date might be that his wife is giving off seriously conflicting signals by inviting DH's friend round for a lovely dinner (although little does DH or "OW" know, it's actually an excuse to spy on them) while at the same time insisting she back off.

Give the man a break. His wife is NOT behaving rationally, and in those circumstances I think any partner would simply press ahead with scheduled plans.

It's not a question of jealously preventing him ever having pals who happen to be women.

No, let's call it what it is: It's specifically a question of a married woman being jealous of a younger woman's charms, despite the fact that her own marriage is in good shape and her husband has told her he's not interested in her supposed 'rival'. Yet she insists on taking out her anxieties on her blameless (and no doubt increasingly confused) husband. And other posters keep egging her on!

Charity I think calling him blameless is pushing it a bit tbh.

For whatever reason this friendship is causing her to feel disquieted because of the change in his behaviour that has not happened with any other friendship.

Thats why I said in my first post that I think it is a massive crush and the OP should keep an eye on it but let it ride its course. That said, if the friend did say "oh go on then" then I think he would definitely end up in an affair. Its the blurry boundaries that are the problem.

First you are friends, then close friends, then you get physcially close with hugs etc, then the odd kiss, then everything but, then sex. Each step along the road is such a tiny step, that is the danger.

I'm wondering why the Jeff this woman wants to come to your house... I'd no more want to visit the house of a woman who's hostile to me and has shown it, than fly to the moon.

A page or two back, but another sentiment that seems quite widespread.

If I had a good male friend I think I'd be pleased if their hitherto jealous and 'hostile' wife looked like she wanted to be friends.

I had two close male friends from Uni, never anything sexual with either, but I loved them as my friends. Both got together with women who thought that friendships with other females were now off-limits. I'd have loved it if their girlfriends, later wives, had wanted to be friends with me too. I wouldn't care if they'd been rude, I'd just be grateful they'd decided to get over it.

My take on this is H is flattered to death and innocent as it may have started, now revels in the buzz. Avuncular, paternalistic initially perhaps but since the vagina reference I wouldn't blame OP for fretting.

OP tried telling him how she felt and that wasn't necessarily an easy admission because at 51 I know people so often assume any poor old bag female over 40 is bound to be jealous over a younger prettier woman, intelligent and vivacious or not.

Instead of saying, "Okay there's nothing for you to worry about - but if it puts your mind at rest I'll cut out the out-of-office-hours chat", he objected to her voicing her concern. A colleague can have plenty of laughs and pleasantries with peers and juniors all day at work, does he need that at home or over the weekend too? OP is no fool she knows she has no sway over whom he speaks to 5 days a week so saying she is policing his friendships is OTT.

Turning it back on her saying she was insulting him by thinking him capable of such a thing, well yes but arguably he is deliberately disrespecting her now by ploughing on. If OP feels insecure now it's because after a long spell with the same partner she can recognise when he's enjoying himself.

If this meal goes ahead I hope OP's H sees the woman happy with her husband and family and has a rethink.

But the OP doesn't want to be friends with the woman friend. She says she wants to see how the friend and her husband interact and wants to give the appearance of the friendship being all above board and friendly.

This isn't a genuine hand of friendship at all. And she hasn't got over her fears and concerns at all.

Let's not pretend this dinner is all about creating a new friendship between two couples.

It is transparently not that.

It's a fishing expedition and a charade- and I wouldn't want to be part of that for anything, if I were this woman friend. I certainly wouldn't subject my husband and kids to it either, as I said upthread.

If this meal goes ahead I hope OP's H sees the woman happy with her husband and family and has a rethink.

Nope. It's the OP that needs to see this woman happy with her husband and have a 'rethink'.

"He emails her several times a day including when at home and basically none of it is work related, just chat."

Is this really usual between pals?

Shape her husband is like a teenager with a crush, why on earth shouldnt she feel bad about that? Regardless of the friend, her husband is making her feel like shit because of his feelings for someone else! HE needs to see what he is doing and what a fool he is being!

Meh, seeing couples who are 'happy' tells us nothing. As if no-one ever had an affair when they were 'happy' FFS.

Plus, it's easy to feign it in company even if you're not.

"I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?! I"

Again, not exactly usual.

Leavenheath

From others' posts apparently the OP has been worried for months and in the summer was especially concerned because her husband would contact this relatively new woman friend on waking, communicate throughout the day and then during the evening at home.

They're colleagues and friends. They probably spend as much time together as OP and DH throughout the week. So of course they communicate throughout the day. And messaging in the morning and evening is hardly a hanging offence.

And it's important to remember that a fair amount of this is Chinese Whispers -- I'm going by your summary of other people's comments about comments on a thread that neither of us has read.

From the way in which this thread has been conducted, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that this boiled down to 'he has texted her once or twice before leaving for work' and 'occasionally texts in the evening'.

He was also buying the friend presents. The OP says he isn't in touch with any other friend that often, doesn't buy them presents and has never done this before.

Again, what sort of presents and how often? Is it unreasonable to buy a friend presents? If he were frittering away large sums of family money on red roses, chocolates and champagne I would understand the concern. But I am willing to bet cold hard cash that this is yet another mountain out of a molehill.

If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. I'm quite curious to know the details myself, but don't know where to look.

I'd be frankly astonished if any naysayers here would be unpeturbed by that changed behaviour in their own partners.

Again, it depends how dramatic the change was, which is unknown. But we do know, from this very thread, that OP's marriage is in good shape, sex life is normal (and he's described as 'keen'), and she herself says she does not feel that he has in any way 'checked out' of the marriage.

Just checked my messages from my friend Tom today. Six texts in total. All of them hilarious (I think). None of them loaded or with a sexual undertone or anything. I adore his wife and I like his children. I think and hope the sentiment is reciprocated. Me and Tom are close because, well, me and Tom are close. Is just how it is. So do you think that six texts in one day is obsessive? Abnormal? Should DH be silently clocking my texts and emails? Building up a head of steam about Absolutely Nothing?

BOF

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?!

That was what did it for me. I do think it is a crush, but I hope that the friend is wise to it and the reason she is coming to dinner with her husband and DC is to show the OPs H that it is a no go.

Leaven, the OP has presented this as a friendly invitation (not a devious 'fishing expedition' which is indeed what it is). Why would this woman not take it at face value?

I wouldn't assume it was done to suss me out if I were her. But then I don't understand the OP's mentality at all, so why would I? If this woman is happily married and her husband doesn't have any issues with her friendship because he is a secure person, then it's not fair to assume that she would realise it is all a charade and she is being duped by the OP.

I don't think the OP should have invited this woman and her husband. But only because she has done it for such cynical and manipulative reasons.

Don't blame the friend for 'subjecting her husband and kids' to a charade, blame the OP. Because the OP knows it's a charade, and she has engineered it. The friend hasn't.

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?!

Happy that his much-loved wife seems to have got over herself and is willing to permit, even promote, this friendship?

Glad that making the families friends will defuse the tension?

Thinking about what to wear because he's a little insecure about socialising with a younger, probably cooler, couple, and doesn't want to look like an old fogey?

Plausible, IMO.

What 'does it' for me, ie makes me think it's the OP's problem, is that she is happy in her marriage, actually (but, I think, less happy in herself).

Why wouldn't she take it at face value?

Because as a professional woman, she's clearly not stupid. If when I was her age I'd been communicating this much with a new male colleague and he'd been buying me gifts, it would have definitely have crossed my mind that his wife might have a problem with it, even if in my head, this was just a good friendship. If when I met said wife she'd snubbed me and was unfriendly on each occasion, I would realise instantly there was a problem. If I then suddenly got a dinner invitation from her I'd realise exactly what was going on.

Let's credit the woman with a bit of intelligence eh?

Maybe other posters who were on the other thread could either link it or cut and paste details from it, Charity? Or if the OP ever comes back, maybe she could do that herself.

I don't need to see it though to realise this is a problem. What the OP has said about her husband putting no boundaries in place in a new friendship is the biggest problem, IMO.

Sorry I haven't been back to this before now - to be really honest it's totally confused me. Half of you think I'm justified, and some of those thing they're probably having an affair. Half of you think I'm bonkers, a bad wife, ruining my marriage etc. The split about the meal seems half and half but to be honest I think ive left it too late now (its on Wednesday). It's an early meal as she has young DC who will be with her so an early evening thing, put them in their pjs here and then head home as late as 'they can get away with'.

To cover things people have asked - hubby has other female friends and is not like this with them. But they are generally older (ie my age lol) and long standing friends.

I have never been jealous before ever, and that includes him working abroad, staying away for business trips (pre her), helping out an old flame with some business stuff once etc. I really am not like that. He's a truly lovely person and I trusted him totally tlil now. I still do in that I think he'd really try not to have an affair........but I don't think he realises how risky his position is and how much he's invested in this woman.

I don't just want to invite her so I can spy on their relationship, I want to get to knokw her and see if I can work out why hubby likes her so much because right now all I know is she's very clever, very pretty and very young, and I sort of hate her in my head, whereas if I meet her properly maybe I'll see that she's just lovely and the kind of person I wouldl't be able to avoid being friend with if I worked with her too?

I really have zero to report on the dodgy front - it's just the volume of the contact and the eagerness from both sides. she has said he 'looked nice' a couple of times at work functions (afterwards) and he didn't reciprocate. I think he's being very careful in some ways (too careful?!) I don't think he'd hesitate to tell any of our mutual older friends that they looked lovely.

Yes, I am now getting upset that he didn't compliment this other woman!

I don't know really if I am crazy, but I just don't feel right about this friendship. He's just a bit more 'alive' when he talks about her.

Can you clarify how many times they are in contact, by which medium and when it starts and ends each day?

And this stuff about gifts?

I don't think you are crazy at all and I'm sorry if this thread has made you feel this way.

Ok, Leaven, I agree to differ.

If it were me, and I'm a professional, I'd be pretty crestfallen if a friend/colleague's wife were hostile to me, and delighted if the atmosphere seemed to have changed.

I wouldn't assume she had devious motives. But that's because I don't 'get' sexual jealousy really. It doesn't make me unintelligent to not assume people are playing games.

Your take on things may be correct, so may mine. Both views are valid; I prefer mine.

Yeah, go ahead. It may put your mind at rest regarding her as she will no longer be an unknown threat. Your DH is a different matter, he sounds like he is maybe making a bit of a fool of himself with regards to her?

You might be delighted if the atmosphere seemed to have changed, but in this case you'd be wrong wouldn't you?

So yes, both views are valid, but I'd prefer mine. Because I do 'get' sexual jealousy and even if I haven't felt it myself very much or had cause to, I understand it very well in others especially if they've got something to be jealous and threatened about.

I'm not meaning this unkindly, but are you a SAHM? I only ask because you are clearly thinking too much about this, and I wondered why you were monitoring your husband's friendships so, erm, intensively when he has been nothing but open and honest with you. Why aren't you building your own friendships? Is it a lack of social outlet? Too much time?

Yes, Leaven I would be wrong, but that is sad more than anything. It's not a bad thing to think the best of people.

And we don't really know if the OP has something to be jealous and threatened about, do we? She doesn't know, so you sure as hell don't and nor do I.

Someone on here has to put the other side, some kind of counterweight to the loud chorus that always seems to dominate this type of thread - the one that thinks all men are lying, cheating sexual opportunists and other women are potentially homewrecking predators.

My Dad had a work "friendship" exactly like this. Used to show my mam photos of her on Facebook etc. and we all thought nothing of it esp as she lived in England and we're in Wales. Then he went on a walking trip conveniently near her home town and was invited by her to come over for a meal and stay the night, with her husband and children present oblivious to what was going on. My mother even sent up wine and chocolates in my dad's case to thank them for their hospitality towards my him. It was all a smoke screen. They'd been having an affair for months but by doing it under everyone's nose, it didn't seem so obvious. She'd even emailed him things like "Don't forget to bring a photo of your family to show my DH so he won't get suspicious". Just be careful.

I'm with you and your instincts, OP. He's bouncing around all excited and fretting about what to wear. Since you posted about this, I assume he doesn't normally act like a teenager going to Prom when you have another family round for dinner.

He's got mentionitis. He will not brook criticism of her or their friendship. Instead of feeling concern for your anxiety, he's turning round on you and is one step away from calling you crazy.

For some reason, couples enjoying an illicit crush/EA/affair seem to love arranging get-togethers with their respective spouses. Maybe it makes them feel excitingly Secret Service or something - I dunno, but I can advise you that Making Friends With Her doesn't help: not in my experience, anyway.

You'll have to play it by ear. There will be children to distract you, and her husband, which hopefully will be enough to save you from having an undignified meltdown. Depending on how cool you can be, you could amusingly bring the conversation round to workplace affairs and see who squirms the most - but, unless you catch them at it in the garden shed, I fear the dinner's not going to give you any answers.

Have you read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? I think you need to. Leave a copy on the side; if you are cool enough to bring the conversation round to affairs, the book provides plenty of thought-provoking material.

Just do your best, Be Wonderful, and poison her pudding rise above it