Don't want kids but wife does - is divorce the only solution?

[justthisguy31]

I'm a bloke, aged 31, married to a clever, beautiful, successful woman who loves me, but I'm starting to think we should get a divorce. She seems firmly set on having a baby, and the idea of parenthood scares me stupid. I know how much hard work it is, as the oldest of a big family, and I still have so many other things to do in my life that will be hard or impossible with a child.

We have had the argument, several times, and then talked about it for real, and finally agreed a compromise. If she still wants a baby when I turn 38 (she is 6 months younger btw), we'll do our best to have one. That gives me time to build a better career and save some money, and both of us some years together as a couple, to have fun before we have to live just for someone else.

Are we just kicking the can down the road though?

I wasted time in my 20s on bad ideas and dead end jobs, and it took me until last year to find a career that would fly. Now I'm doing something I really enjoy, that pays well (for entry level) and has great prospects, but I'm still on the bottom rung. My wife, on the other hand, already finished her PhD three years ago and started a very promising, but very intense academic career. Which is to say that if we had a baby now, the only option that would make financial sense is for me to chuck in my job and be a stay-at-home dad. Not exactly what I want to do with the rest of my life.

I'm also biased by my own parents' financial problems. My mum gave up work when I was born, and while my dad has had a pretty good career overall, when I was 10 he hit a rough patch and got into debt. It took the rest of my childhood for them to get back on a stable footing, and they still don't have the comfortable lifestyle they did when I was young. I remember endless fights, totally futile because there's no way to argue bills or petrol prices down, and I can't shake the fear that we'd end up in the same sort of hole. Even worse, as the lower earner (and likely primary child-carer) I'd be in my mum's position. Trapped.

Then from my wife's point of view, 38 or 39 is old for a first child. If it turns out she can't have a normal pregnancy and a healthy kid at that age, it will be my fault for insisting on the wait. Maybe a pregnancy will work out fine, or maybe she'll change her mind about wanting a kid, but if it doesn't happen there won't be any way back. I don't want to risk trapping her.

So I'm starting to think I have to let her go now, while she still has time to find a guy who wants children ASAP. Still not sure though if it would be self-sacrifice, or just selfish. I am sure she'd miss me, and I'd miss her.

I've typed this up more to organise my thoughts than to start an argument, but if you see flaws in my thinking please say so. Tis a forum after all :-)

That's very sad Highlander.

I too find parenting very hard though I was a more willing accomplice.

I have heard so many cases of men saying they want a second child and the mother is more ambivilent saying that she doesn't know if she can cope without more support. Man promises more support. Wife goes ahead. Child is born and wife ends up doing most of the donkey work- again.

Highlander. Sounds like you need to kick your dh up his lying arse.

That's a tough situation, it's all lovely saying leave and meet someone else, the reality of these plenty others can be elusive, sometimes it's best to compromise for a better good.tell your wife you won't be staying at home to raise te baby, she sounds like she can manage with or without you at home.best of luck

I agree with Highlander, all this 'you can still work' and talk of childcare and How You Can Make It Work is beside the point. He doesn't want kids!

He told her that.

He is offering this wait till 38 as a compromise even though He Doesn't Want Kids.

There's nothing wrong with that. You don't need counselling, to be told how it could work out, childcare options, etc.

You accept who you are, that there is nothing wrong with it, get a divorce and stop listening to anyone other than your own conscience. If it says, 'I don't want kids,' then be true to that and don't accept anything less.

'it's all lovely saying leave and meet someone else, the reality of these plenty others can be elusive, sometimes it's best to compromise for a better good.'

It is perfectly possible to not compromise, because it's really not a wise thing to do when it comes to bringing another human being into the world, and have a full, active and happy life without being in a couple relationship.

It really is.

I thought the main reason for not wanting kids was finance and career prospects?

And that's not a good enough reason? You don't need one at all, and the OP clearly stated they did discuss children before marrying, and that he did not want them. This is a compromise. Compromises are what you do when buying a house, a car or a holiday, not bringing a child into the world.

But OP, a parenting forum is the wrong place, obviously, for those child free by choice to get the most objective viewpoint or support, tbh.

Not read the whole thread so not sure if mentioned, but fertility does not drop of a cliff at 35 - that is based on research on French women between 1670-1830, hardly relevant to modern life - see here

this is why we are aeeing a baby boom now as women have delayed having children and they are all dropping now.

Agree with expat.
Really the "compromise" is not a fair compromise in this situation.

Financially, it's never, ever a good thing to have kids, they are very expensive to run! We all know that, even those of us who have had children by choice. But we had them anyway! Because we wanted them. IMO, people who say they can't afford children, when they are not exactly on the breadline, probably don't really want them at all. If you did the finances would go out the window.

carol, no, it does not drop off a cliff. But infertility for a lot of women does drop dramatically at that age. It didn't for me, I was 42 when I had my last child. But my SIL is 41 and has just been told she has gone through the menopause, another friend has just adopted a little boy after failing to conceive after the age of 34, I know three other women who were 35 when they started trying to conceive and have no baby to show for it and my circle of friends is quite small so that is around 30% of the women I know well.
It would be fine if his dw was ambivalent about children but she definitely wants them so it's far too risky for her.

not risky -the research shows 82% of 35-39 year olds get pregnant in a year compared to 86% of 27-35 year olds. Often women who struggle when older would have struggled when younger.

I think the problem for us reading this thread (and the OP and his wife) is that he hasn't really been clear that he does not want children. He has talked about compromising with having children at 38 and given various reasons why having children now wouldn't suit him.

People have said that if he really doesn't want children then the compromise doesn't make sense - you shouldn't have children you don't want at 38 any more than you should at 31. That its not fair to 'string along' his wife by offering to have children with her at 38 when it might not be possible because of declining fertility, or he might not yet have achieved the things-he-wants-to-achieve-before-he-has-children by then. And they've pointed out that IVF is not a fail safe back up.

In addition, they have explained that the reasons he SAYS that now is not the right time to have children are not necessarily barriers because he is basing them on strange assumptions. They have encouraged him to consider whether he doesn't want children at all, or whether it is practical considerations which are making him genuinely think they aren't ready for children yet but will be in x years time - in which case he should really look into what the actual practicalities are (investigating things like child tax credits, the quality of local childcare options etc) with his wife and discuss with her his hopes and fears about parenting, their financial future and come up so that they both understand what is expected (things like - he doesn't want to be a SAHF).

OP, If you don't want to have children that's okay. But I don't think you can compromise and say maybe in 7 years time (a timeframe arbitarily far enough away that it seems a long time away and so not threatening to you, and one close enough that she might think its worth hanging around and waiting).

caroldecker I'm sorry your view is incorrect.

See what the NHS, with all its conservative, research based evidence, is bold enough to stick out its neck to say on the subject:

Fertility DOES decline rapidly from 35 years old

The article you cite is an opinion of a female creatively writing in a journal, who cited research without any link to test its validity, and which also tries to argue chromosomal abnormalities over the age of 35 is incorrect!

If you don't want children, don't have them. No child deserved to be born into that situation.

If you decide to have children, don't wait too long. Make it clear to your DW that she would have to give up her job or find childcare. It's unreasonable to expect you to give up your career when you don't want to. You on the other hand, will need to give up a few luxuries in life so your income can support you both. Actually, both of you will have to. Marriage is much about compromise and parenting is much about sacrifice. Both of you need to give up a little on what you want.

what are the statistics for increased risk of miscarriage over 35?

I was an older woman who hated being told that my fertility would be compromised by my age but in my case it turned out to be true (Though admittedly there could have been other reasons apart from my age).

Having been through that experience I would still advise women that fertility drops past a certain age and that all things including abnormalities and miscarriage should be factored in, not JUST difficulty conceiving.

I know someone who conceived at 48. I'm sure all of us know someone like that. But it's rare. The other thing is that the OP's wife doesn't have any children, her fertility has not been tested. If she has problems conceiving, then 38 gives her a much smaller window of opportunity for fertility treatment.

I think it would leave her too old for an ivf attempt on the nhs wouldn't it? Taking into consideration the waiting lists.

I love the way we are all continuing to post and the OP's not been seen for days. Can't say I blame the guy.

It sounds like you are more afraid than anti-kids.

And your fears are really normal for a bloke. OK mostly these fears are secret and wrestled with in silence, but you sound very caring.

You are making the mistake of all or nothing thinking which is distorted. You don't have to be a stay at home Dad. There is childcare available.

Don't let the uncertainty and trauma of your past control your present.

Good luck.

laughingeyes2013, you are wrong to dismiss caroldecker so blithely. Here is an article for you which does include links to the original research.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24128176

If it makes you happy, the conclusion that fertility doesn't drop off a cliff at 35 is backed up by David James, who heads the fertility group at Nice, which sets the guidelines for the NHS. He is the source of the comments about chromosomal abnormalities. And he is pretty eminent, so I'd be minded to take his opinion seriously, even if it does go counter to what we've been accustomed to thinking. That's the whole point of science, after all!

The article links to the updated Nice guidelines, for what it's worth.

We all ought to remember: the plural of anecdote is not data, and this is especially true for epidemiology, where the samples of "people we know" can feel utterly compelling but be down to just random chance in a population so large (millions of women aged 20 to 50) that we just can't properly get our heads round it.

Dear OP, sorry I havent read all the replies and apologise if I repeat anything.
Both my DP (ex but for the purposes of this it doesnt matter) are now over 40. My DP didnt really want children when we met 11 years ago and I wasnt fussed. We both have well paid professional jobs and like you my DP was bettering his chances within his career. When he was 30, I fell pregnant (not planned) and we decided to go ahead with the pregnancy. Fast forward another 4 years and I wanted another. He didnt but as I was now over 35 he said he would as he knew how much it meant to me.
Fast forward to now. We have a 10 and a 6 year old and we have definitely made the right choice. At the time we thought not but now in our early 40s the boys have made our life exciting and fun. We have discovered new passions in life through havking the children. We have met and made new life long friends because of them. I know i am looking forward to being a grandparent and my DP shares all this too. It hasnt hindered our careers in any way either. In fact we have both been given promotion.
No parent has to stay at home. My sister helped with child care and the boys went to a wonderful nursery.
I think im trying to say, is that having children may enhance your life and your relationship with your wife. Children can bring a closeness between you that you never knew existed.
It is essential you both want the same things in life. Maybe you need to rethink your compromise. I also think if you truly love her, you will be devastated if you split. I would any way. If you think you would just miss her but still feel the need to split then you shouldnt be having children together any way.
I wish you both luck in your life.

Also wanted to add that no one should ever feel bullied into having children. If rethinking your compromise leaves you feeling like this, then be firm with your wife. I gave you my experience to show how it worked out for me. But children are hard work as well. Maybe borrow a friends kids for the day. See how you get on.

OP, how much do you earn exactly, and how much does your wife earn?
Which part of the country do you live (just thinking about childcare costs)
Do you rent or own?
Do you have grandparents living nearby?
Just trying to assertain how skint you are in terms of having a family .... if that is the major sticking point for you.

he's only been gone for less than two days.