Suspicious behaviour - not sure what to do, feeling sick

[abneysporridge]

Have come here to reach out as I really don't think I can tell anyone my suspicions in real life. Have been with dh for 13 years - 6 married - and have 3 ds's age 4, 3 and 7 mths - so life is pretty mad as u can guess! For a while now dh's behaviour has been really strange and at first I thought it was just stress from work combined with the mentalness of home life, but alarm bells rang when we were at a friends party about 3 weeks ago and he got really shit-faced and was great fun with everyone else but really confrontational with me - accusing me of eyeing up 'that guy' over there and how I'm not interested in him any more. It really blindsided me - we've never rowed or broken up, always been a good team, it was just so out of character. So I started noticing everything at that point - how disengaged he was with the kids, and my daily chatter about them, his over- zealous personal grooming and my god the diet he's on is just insane - it's working he's lost loads of weight - but he's starving himself, and mainly how he never NEVER let's his mobile out of his sight.
Recently I got him a new contract under my account as we can get a discount - his old phone smashed and we did all this quickly before he really had time to think about it - which allows me to look at the itemised bills online (I don't think he knows I can do this) and there were hundreds of texts and short calls to this one number - sometimes at odd hours - which I knew to be his female colleague. When he was in the shower one morning (he'd brought the phone into the bathroom) I checked his messages to see what on earth he's been chatting to her about and he'd deleted them all. Which is very suspicious I think. Honestly I don't know what to do with all this - I don't even know if its really an affair so if I start accusing him it could be a disaster and I don't want to tell any family or friends in case they hate him and it will never be the same again. I feel nervous all the time like my ears are ringing and I'm drowning , but I've got to try and be as normal as poss for the sake of the kids. Admittedly I've been distant and putting him way down the priority list for years, so maybe this was inevitable, I just never thought he was the type of guy capable of doing this. I hate feeling like my world is on shakey foundations, I work so bloody hard to give our kids a good life, which means putting my needs absolute last, I don't get why he can't do the same - maybe men just can't, selfish creatures that they are.
Sorry for sounding off in an essay basically! I just don't know what my next move should be - this past week I've been really positive and kind to him in the hopes he can see he has all he needs at home, but I don't feel connected to him at all anymore - like maybe he's got one foot out the door. So depressing. I always thought we were solid

Everyone here is rooting for you. You are a wonderful, caring, compassionate woman. We want you to be happy even if your happiness requires you to stay with your husband.
I often feel annoyed when some people confuse LTB for LTB for now
I really believe that your marriage has a better chance if you ask him to leave for now
It is a means to an end as explained so well by an earlier poster.
Your DH needs to feel the loss of you in order to bring the reality of his behaviour into sharp focus. By allowing him to stay you are hampering this.
In addition, as Attilla said, this is not a good environment for your DC at present.
And finally, imagine how you will feel if you make all these concessions, he stays, then leaves you for her despite this.

Abney,

Well done is sounds like you really handled yourself well last night, I bet he was squirming in his pants!!

I agree with what other posters have said in regards to what he has told you. While I know and understand how it may seem believable to you that he didn't sleep with her, I would think that he can't even admit this to himself yet never mind admit it you....so he may well seem very believable on this front because he is in self denial about his own actions/feelings.

I really do think he has slept with (so sorry) especially since he says he thinks he loves her!!! I know of no man who thinks he loves a woman (especially a married/attached man) with out having had sex with said woman. Men respond to the physical and in most cases its the physical that drives them, the emotional connection comes as secondary to that. I think she must have satisfied him in some sexual sense for him to feel he has an emotional connection strong enough that to think that he loves her!!!

At any rate even if he has not cheated in the penis in vagina sense he has cheated in spirit, he has cheated in his mind, he has cheated in his heart. So even if he hasn't had sex with her, he has wanted to, he has imagined and fantasized about it, and he has stayed over at her house and resisted all these urges and his fantasy of her??!!!

He is a liar sweet, and I am deeply sorry because the previous two paragraphs must have been difficult and hurtful to read. It hurts I know and it makes you feel desperate and hopeless in ways you have never known. Rest assured you did not cause this, your are in no way to blame, do not listen to one ounce of 'he didn't feel love from your for years'!! My arse!!! Every moment you were looking after your children was loving him, was supporting him...why...because they are his children too. Every time you did something as simple as iron a shirt, make him a cup of tea, cook him his dinner and support him was love!! Love is more than a cheap thrill and thinking you love somebody because you've watched them bend suggestively over the filing cabinets at work and have a few saucy moments!!! IDIOT!

All that being said, I greatly respect how you want to handle things for the sake of the kids. I understand if having him leave is not what you feel is right for your children then at the very least I would suggest the following:

Define a clear boundary between you, if you don't have a spare room then make sure he sleeps on the sofa and put his essentials...clothing, toiletries somewhere other than your bedroom so that he doesn't have any excuse to be invading your space.

He has to realize how serious this is, and he needs to understand that a few sorry's and cups of tea and being extra nice for a while are not going to make this go away. Make the bedroom your space, make it off limits to him, use it as your sanctuary to think, get space, cry whatever you need it to be. Don't get trapped into letting it go back to the 'usual' because is really easy to start of by just keep up the pretense for the sake of the kids/others and then ending up just having slid back into the normal routine. All that will happen then, is he will think he got away with it and be happy as larry thinking he's had a close shave. While you, on the other hand will be burning from the inside out with anger, resentment and insecurity.

You are a brave brave woman, and have handled yourself with class and dignity. Remember there is no shame in wanting to try and work things out with him, there is no shame in wanting him to be sorry and to beg for forgiveness, there is no shame in hoping/wanting to fight for him/your relationship/your family. Equally there is no shame in letting him go and ending things because repairing a relationship when the trust has been so badly broken is incredibly hard. Sometimes you have to accept that you will never get over something, cut your losses and move on. Neither path is an easy road to take but....whatever you do....if you decide to let him work it out with you, if you decide to give him a second chance...just make sure that you MAKE HIM WORK REALLY HARD FOR IT!!!

Take your time, work out what you want and what is best for you.

Has he contacted her since do you know?

A friend of mine is having an affair and goes to great lengths to hide it. Im sure if confronted she would minimise, minimise, minimise. She did actually even when telling me about it. It took a while for it all to come out.

I just hope your anger kicks in that your children's father thought it was a good idea to throw this grenade into their lives not long after they had to cope with their grandfather's death. Not to mention throwing it into your life when you were still in mourning.

Your posts infer that it's your responsibility not to damage your kids after their terrible bereavement and the after effects of it.

It's not and it never was. The damage was done by him.

I do hope you get angry about that.

Lillygoeslightly. What a good post.

hi abs.

his minimising of what has happened really reminded me of a thread from ages ago.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/622118-it-happens-so-often-on-here-but-i-opened-his

I agree with all the others who say you must kick him out, for a while. give yourself some space.

I think there is a tendency when you're replying to a thread to want the narrative to move on quickly, like in a soap opera you're waiting for the next instalment.

When I was in the throes of finishing with my DH I stepped away from the relationships board as I didn't want to look back in years to come and wonder if I'd ended it because of a load if strangers on the internet.

Another good reason for telling him to leave is that he has to take some kind of action and what he does will tell you a lot more than what he says.

Tell him that your mum knows. After he has finished being helpful, tell him that she knew all along. Let him be shocked and surprised that people can keep secrets from him. Let him feel what that is like.

Then tell him, you would be surprised what I know and who I have told. I want you to move out until you can be completely honest with me. Move out and write me a letter putting all the details in. I will know if you are still lying.

When I have read the letter, I will let you know what I want to do.

Then watch his actions.

The trouble with treading softly is that he'll believe this is just a blip and if he covers his tracks well enough it's business as usual. From this point MN you have no proof he is stopping anything. He will be ever more sneaky and imaginative in the way he covers things up. IMO, and is just my opinion, so you can ignore it, the only way for you to make him realise you won't be fucked with is to chuck him out. Insist he leaves, tell HIM it's indefinitely but he can't tell the children anything but that he is going away for work. They don't need to know he's going for good, and he needn't be, but if you don't claim this space now I believe you always be wondering what he is up to and he just won't take you seriously.

You are holding up brilliantly on the outside, I'm sure that's not how you feel on the inside, but well done for confronting him.

Spelt, that is so true. Real time and thread "story" are not the same.

JustThisOnce

Thank You

You are so brave and so strong, Abney.

That confrontation last night must have been horrendous for you.

I have to agree with the others that there is absolutely ZERO chance that he stayed at her house and did not have sex with her. This is just not even remotely likely.

Knowing that he slept with her, I think that you must remember to get an STD check. I'm sorry as that's a horrible thing to think about, but it's very important for your health.

I agree with the others that if he thinks he can jump from an affair to marriage counselling then he's going to be feeling relieved already. I think he needs to feel what he could lose, first, or he will have no respect for you and no feeling of what it is he needs to fight for. Right now he's painting himself as a poor neglected husband who made a mistake but it's just a 'chapter in his life'. He needs to understand what the true repercussions are of lying to his wife and cheating on her and the children.

I hear what you are saying about turmoil for the kids but believe me the damaging effects of being in a house where mum and dad are unhappy are far more worrying than dad being elsewhere because he made some bad choices.

A friend of mine had a similar affair with a work colleague. OM' s wife found texts on his phone and immediately called my friends husband and spilled the beans. Of course both the protagonists played it down, my friend swore blind to her husband that it was just flirting/banter, the OM did the same and shortly after he left the company and it all blew over very quickly.

My point is that my friends husband believed her minimising and denials that it went any further but I know that they did have sex a few times, she told me. It was all about damage limitation for her.

Lillygolightly....well said. Fantastic post. Abney...another one here who is rooting for you. No more advice to add. Just give yourself time and space to clearly think it through. Xx

I also want to agree with the posters who say that you are handling this really well. You are a fantastic strong woman.

Do not let him blame you. You did not cause this in any way.

I do think that you need to get an STI check up (sorry).

You could also get the book "Just good friends" by Shirley Glass. I know people who have found it really helpful.

mammadiggingdeep

Thank you

Abney I hope you are holding up ok we are all here when you need us.

Abney you've handled it beautifully and with such dignity, I understand what you're saying about you needing to tread softly, I'd just urge you not to let him minimise things.

Be prepared for more and more to come out, and take the support of your mum and from here, he's treated you appallingly and your children can have a great relationship with their father away from you

I think you can still give him hell and have stability for the children. They don't need to know anything is happening.

The problem is, now he knows you are rushing to problem solving mode, and without him having taken any firm action, he has nothing to fear. He can afford to lie more about what happened, or keep seeing her, because he knows you are reluctant to end it regardless.

This is exactly what I did, too, so please don't take it as a criticism. The poster who said you are relieved and want the pain or uncertainty to go away is right. It makes you jump too quickly into the problem solving mode, skipping over the reveal stage.

The BIGGEST problem with this is that you yourself are likely to regret it bitterly come, say, January.

Those what's ifs and suspicions and questions come back, and poison your day. So you have had a big upheaval and are not much further forward. Still feeling shit, still suspicious, still not happy enough.

And worse, because he got away with it lightly two things happen next to him. One, he is warned and do if he does want to continue, he will be more careful. And two, he will never tell more about the past, because he judges it safe not to.

I may be wrong, but that is exactly how it happened with me, and after due warning from albeit direct mn posters. The iron is still hot, so it's worth a second strike at it.

Well done OP. You have handled it all so well.

I can see how you much you don't want to lose him OP, but paradoxically, I think the only way to keep him is to throw him out for a bit.

Cheaters tend to idealise they thing they can't have - the OW. The wife they take for granted - & have a list of faults in their head - partly to justify cheating.

By kicking him out - you become the thing he can't have.

There's nothing that seems to focus cheaters' minds more effectively than thinking they may have lost everything. And in the cold light of day, the OW loses the ideal glitter & becomes just another woman; and what they had (and lost) becomes far more appealing.

Moreover, it's the only way you're going to get the truth out of him. From his pov, he thinks if he minimises you might not chuck him out. But once you do chuck him out, he has nothing to lose by coming clean.

what twinkle said.
its true what they say about the ow losing appeal. having that choice taken out of his hands and suddenly forced to be with just one woman.. manogamy- the one thing he was deviating from. the fact that he was trying to minimise the affair, saying she thinks its more than it is, gives a stark clue as to how he'll treat her too.
true saying: the best revenge you can take out on the ow that steals your husband, is to let her keep him.

you wouldnt have to put up with that shite if you move onto bigger n better things xx

Abbey, will you still be able to see how much he is contacting her through the itemised bills or do you think he realises this?

Yes yes twinkle.
Op, my ex wouldn't talk at all. Swore on the dc's lives ffs. I chucked him out. Think he thought it was a bit of a holiday to start with. It took 5 months and was when I genuinely was moving on and then he came to me wanting to tell all (still was a version). What I'm trying to say is that they do have to think they've lost you. Not just to get to the truth but for them to stop taking you for granted etc etc. if you want him to stay in your life, making him realise how big this is by Lodi g you is paramount.
Twinkle makes a lot of sense xx