Suspicious behaviour - not sure what to do, feeling sick

[abneysporridge]

Have come here to reach out as I really don't think I can tell anyone my suspicions in real life. Have been with dh for 13 years - 6 married - and have 3 ds's age 4, 3 and 7 mths - so life is pretty mad as u can guess! For a while now dh's behaviour has been really strange and at first I thought it was just stress from work combined with the mentalness of home life, but alarm bells rang when we were at a friends party about 3 weeks ago and he got really shit-faced and was great fun with everyone else but really confrontational with me - accusing me of eyeing up 'that guy' over there and how I'm not interested in him any more. It really blindsided me - we've never rowed or broken up, always been a good team, it was just so out of character. So I started noticing everything at that point - how disengaged he was with the kids, and my daily chatter about them, his over- zealous personal grooming and my god the diet he's on is just insane - it's working he's lost loads of weight - but he's starving himself, and mainly how he never NEVER let's his mobile out of his sight.
Recently I got him a new contract under my account as we can get a discount - his old phone smashed and we did all this quickly before he really had time to think about it - which allows me to look at the itemised bills online (I don't think he knows I can do this) and there were hundreds of texts and short calls to this one number - sometimes at odd hours - which I knew to be his female colleague. When he was in the shower one morning (he'd brought the phone into the bathroom) I checked his messages to see what on earth he's been chatting to her about and he'd deleted them all. Which is very suspicious I think. Honestly I don't know what to do with all this - I don't even know if its really an affair so if I start accusing him it could be a disaster and I don't want to tell any family or friends in case they hate him and it will never be the same again. I feel nervous all the time like my ears are ringing and I'm drowning , but I've got to try and be as normal as poss for the sake of the kids. Admittedly I've been distant and putting him way down the priority list for years, so maybe this was inevitable, I just never thought he was the type of guy capable of doing this. I hate feeling like my world is on shakey foundations, I work so bloody hard to give our kids a good life, which means putting my needs absolute last, I don't get why he can't do the same - maybe men just can't, selfish creatures that they are.
Sorry for sounding off in an essay basically! I just don't know what my next move should be - this past week I've been really positive and kind to him in the hopes he can see he has all he needs at home, but I don't feel connected to him at all anymore - like maybe he's got one foot out the door. So depressing. I always thought we were solid

It's ok, I'm under no illusions that what he's told me is not the absolute truth - and his line about 'she thinks its more than it is' was during the denial phase, and he admitted that was a lie. I'm basically trying to paper over the cracks for the children's sake at the moment. When my dad died it was so sudden, we had to leave them with my aunt and uncle who they barely know and shoot down to Cornwall (he died on holiday), then when we returned we were all a mess, they were pushed from pillar to post and had to witness the adults around them reduced to blubbering messes. When my son returned to preschool I got a call from his teacher about 10am to say he was sitting in a corner not talking and hiding his face. Then he said he's sad because grandad's heart stopped and there's no phone in heaven. I cannot and will not repeat this trauma a year later. In my heart and in my guts I think my marriage is over, but this needs to be a gradual withdrawal not a sudden shock. Dh will feel the repercussions of this for years to come when he realises what his ego boost has cost him, but there will be NO cost to my children's state of mind. I am oddly calm, and holding on to my sense of empowerment.

OP, I have lurked on your thread and think you have done really well. But if you want to have any chance of repairing your relationship you need to chuck him out for a bit and then at least see if he really wants to make the effort to win back your trust. He needs to have a sufficient shock to make him understand how bad things really are, and you need some space to decide if you want him back. I didnt do this when my ex cheated the first time and looking back he just thought he had got away with it and carried on.

We are now divorced.

JustThis I disagree.

Abney has shown some of the strongest courage, bravery integrity I have seen on mn for a long time. She has lost her dad, found out her dh is cheating, put her own needs to the side to think of her family, come looking for advice, taken it all on board, thought about it, made a plan, secured rl support for herself and confronted the pathetic, weak, lying, cheating man, all whilst taking care of three young children.

She does have self respect and she certainly has balls!

I think he needs to feel the loss of you. By allowing him to feel safe you are not helping your marriage. He gets to consider his options secure in the knowledge he can stay if he wants to.
Which is what he has been doing all along.

Your last post brought tears to my eyes Abney. You are the one dealing with this, it is easy to say LTB on an anonymous internet forum, but you are the one who is dealing with the repercussions.
The way you are handling this is admirable.

How are your children now?

I think the thing to do is to do what Fairenuff says: He still doesn't know how you know, so you could speak to him later and say, I know that you're sleeping with her. And then go silent again.

But....

I would add "and I've discussed this with my family and friends and they agree that I need some space. I need you to move out until I've decided what course of action I want to take."

This tells him a few things...

1- it's no longer a secret and he will need to face consequences. It's no longer a matter of just gaslighting YOU. OTHERS know and agree with YOU, not him.

2- You're not willing to play happy families and let it all slide into the background.

3- YOU'RE going to decide what you want to do. Not HIM. YOU.

4- You know more than you're letting on, and he doesn't know what you know. Worrying for him. Good for you.

abney- reread bettys list. i honestly dont believe he hasnt done anything sexual with her.hes minimising.
i worry that by dragging him to counselling youd be potentially humiliating yourself in the long run cos hes already been planning on leaving you and the kids.
i had a married bloke try in on with me before (not the same situation i know), even though i kept rejecting him he kept on. his wife discovered his messages and he deleted me off fb (to show hes 'sorry' i spose ).
but weeks later he started it again, just more secretly. i ended up threatening injunction and blocking him. moral of this story is that cheats wont change, when they get caught they just adapt their methods and get cleverer (sp?).

the nicey nicey making you a lovely cuppa etc is all part of his reaction of getting caught. he could be trying to buy himself time so that he can find himself somewhere to go, etc so hes got something to fall back on. trust me ive been with enough cheats to know the routine.

just wanna say you're an amazing woman to keep it as cool as you have. the way you handled last night was impressive. dont allow him to trample on your strength anymore.

Abney, your husband has not died he has been fucking another woman. He can still be a good dad.
You have been so strong, three young kids are exhausting at the very best of times.
I still think whether you want to save the marriage or not, he needs to give you some space and wake up to what he's done. Making you tea in bed just doesn't cut it.

agree with all that has been said. he needs to feel the consequences of his actions. he is admitting as little as he can get away with and turning it back to you. I spent years with a man who couldn't decide between me and the ow. don't do that to yourself its incredibly painful. we tried counselling but even there he couldn't be honest and the counsellor soon saw through him. I got the truth by meeting her which was incredibly therapeutic.

Oh my lovely, you have been brilliant until now, but ou know what has happened here don't you?

You have been carrying knowledge and pain around with you for weeks and you are so (understandably) desperate to stop feeling the tension inside, that you have latched on to all his lies in order to give yourself some temporary relief in the form of 'hope'.

It's completely understandable and I if I sound judgy or superior, I have no idea how I would cope in your situation, but:

HE IS TEXTBOOK

He is lying

He is minimizing - of course they have slept together. Two adults conducting an affair who purport to be in love and spend nights together are not 'just kissing'. Remember this, any affair regardless of whether it is an emotional one or a physical one, begins with an element of lust. I have never heard of anyone having an EA with someone they didn't physically fancy.

He will continue to hold out on the truth until presented with evidence that he will then try to dis-credit.

He is blaming you for your 'lack of good wifing'

And you are so fragile right now that you are falling for it.

If you want to rebuild your marriage, that is your call and I wish you luck. But unless you kick him out for a while, he will NEVER respect you again, and unless you start with a clean slate of complete disclosure, no counselling in the world will fix this.

I am so glad that you have strong and kind family and friends around you because you have been so so strong but you need to push yourself one last time x

Have you read Chump Lady?
The humiliating dance of pick me ?
You should Absney. He is right there.

Just delurking to say you have my upmost respect, your last post was so selfless and you are obviously a tower of strength.

But as long as you are still there, your DCs will still have the continuity they need. Daddy not sleeping there anymore is not the same as a sudden tragedy sending their family in turmoil. If he has got anything about him he can still co-parent and be there for his DCs but at the same time give you the respect and space you deserve. You don't have to make this sacrifice. Best of luck x

Protecting your children is amazing but they will know somthing is wrong. Even the youngest of children are perceptive little buggers. He will still be there dad and they can adapt amazingly well. You need to consider your needs to or you will be ill and no good to your children then. It's a fine line but if anyone can do it you can.

Apologies for the spelling and grammar.

First day I found out: Just an EA, only been going on for five weeks.
That night: They'd kissed
[Asked him to leave]
Next week: Been going on for 6 months, been physical a handful of times.
After a fortnight: Been going on for 12 months - stayed at her house a few times.
After three weeks: FINALLY it was an 18 month physical affair.

*We worked it out, OP, and we're over a year down the line (things are good) but if he had been allowed to stay under the same roof, no way would I have got to the truth. He would have been too scared of being kicked out if I didn't like what I heard, IYKWIM.

Children are very perceptive and pick up all the vibes; they will sense that something is amiss but they are too young to express this to you.
You must absolutely not stay with him simply because of them, they cannot be used as glue to bind the two of you together.

He needs to be living elsewhere whilst you decide any future plans.

Im sorry if my previous posts were harsh. I was just so angry for you! I want to kick him in the balls!

I get that you don't want this to happen suddenly because of the children. You need to make sure that he still feels it though. You can still kick him out and tell them he's working away for the week etc. You don't have to spring everything on them.

The cup of tea is just insulting. I wouldn't have been able to resist asking if he really thinks that makes up for sticking his dick in the woman he planned to leave you for? Did he make her tea afterwards as well?

I would talk to him as though you KNOW he did these things. Not ask. Just assume its the truth.

The hardest thing to get your head round is this:

If you want there to be any possibility of working on the relationship, you have to tell him to leave.

If you want to accept that you will never get the full truth from him and never be able to trust him, let him stay.

Telling him to leave is the quickest and least painful way to get to the truth. It's like ripping off a plaster. Living with a man that you cannot trust is like having the hairs pulled out one by one.

Same result, just different ways of getting there.

It's interesting that you know him so well, isn't it?

You knew there was no way he'd tell you the truth unless you had proof or made him think you did.

I know I was banging on about this up the thread, but to me it's fundamental.

You knew this man would lie to you if he thought he could get away with it.

Obviously, he's still lying now. Of course he's had sex with her and if he's been staying at her place, probably many times.

He's told you he thinks he loves her (the 'thinks' was just to soften such a grievous and deadly blow incidentally) and he's tried to blame his actions on you.

I get that you're in shock and a kind of euphoria now the thing you've been dreading is over, but in time the reality will really hit you.

You're not just living with a man who had an affair.

You're living with a man who lies repeatedly and tries to blame other people for his behaviour.

Would you stay friends with a person who was like that? Would you?

Sorry just realised I hadn't eaten since lunchtime yesterday - which was toast and marmite - so just made myself a huge bowl of...u guessed it...porridge! And had a little play with ds's in the garden
I'm taking in everything ur saying, and I did float the idea of a separation last night, which we will pick up again tonight, depending on how it goes I may ask him to leave. I want to believe him that's the thing, but he's lied so much I just can't trust him. Gonna swing by mums later under the guise of 'needing to get some air' and get her advice. But it's all going in, all ur advice. And I'm grateful for it. I'm just treading softly - which is in my nature so impossible to ignore.

Hope you are feeling ok after last night ABNEY> I'm afraid there is another one hear saying that although you feel relief that you no longer have this secret, everything you felt before has now taken a back seat because you think you can put it all behind you now he knows you know.
Been there done that - so I know how good it feels. The best 3 months of my marriage when I thought it was all done and dusted and we could move on. It just doesn't happen like that I'm afraid, His feelings for her just don't stop because you know, in fact he may fel he can now be open and choose her because its already out.

I know what a comfort it is to think it will all be ok, but you will not get him to face his real feelings unless he goes to stay somewhere else - even temporarily. This is the tough bit when all you want is to do is tuck in and love him and he'll let you but it really does need to have him move out to get a real good recovery.
Your dcs are young enough to cope with daddy staying somewhere else for a bit.
Also tell him others know and he won't be able to walk all over you.

Well done for being so strong this far, hang in there.

You're doing so well Abney.

Hey abneys. Just wanted to say hey, massive hug and also this. It seems that you want there to be minimal disruption to the kids and him staying may achieve that.

But what if he is in shock right now and then has time to work out how he feels now that things are in the open. And what if he then decides to leave you? The kids will know then.

I just wanted to raise this so that you are prepared that he may take the ball out of your hands.

If he does, all I can say is that your children live in the same world that we do and although they are very small, they have to cope with the same things that we do, we get upset and they are allowed to too. I think at times we are bystanders in our own lives, in that things happen that we did not plan for. Your children will experience that too. Grandad dying and then Daddy leaving maybe what life has in store for them. I don't think you can shield them from it or from feeling sad or mad about it. I know you would want to.

I am sad that he is the one to have brought all this to fruition for you and your children and wider family. That's what the problem is.

Sending hugs xx

I think asking him to leave will help as it will make him realise he can't continue treating you this way, and will give him a dose of stark reality.

It will also give you breathing space and avoid the feeling of needing to act this out - whether it's trying to be normal, walking on eggshells, acting angrily etc. That is emotionally draining. If he's gone for a while you don't need to put on any act.