Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just need some opinions on whether this is normal?

149 replies

funnymummyspeaks · 17/09/2013 12:33

My DH and I have been together a long time and have two DD's. Our youngest is under 3 and has never been a good sleeper and as a result I am constantly tired (DH is too but refuses to admit it and stays up late every night watching tv). I have also recently returned to working FT which I am also finding exhausting. To cut a long story short, my libido has taken a nose dive ever since DD2 was born and DH likes to moan about this (alot). We probably only ever get down to it once or twice a month at the moment and generally that is when I feel under duress to perform as I hear lots of little digs about how hard this is on him. I have been told (apparently as a joke ) a few times that 'this is why men cheat on their wives, and he regularly accuses me of rejecting him or not fancying him instead of just understanding that I am extremely tired and just want to relax/sleep when I am home from work and the kids are asleep. It has also been known to cause rows when he will be sulky all day without telling me why and then eventually blow up that it is because he has needs and is not 'getting laid' enough! Last night, I was falling asleep on the sofa because I was so exhausted and when we went to bed I was ready to crash out. He decides to start watching a programme and at the same time starts attempting to get things going. I have to admit that because I was so tired, I completely ignored his advances and in actual fact, rather than getting me going, he actually irritated me as I felt it was extremely selfish of him to ignore my tiredness and try to stop me from sleeping in order to satisfy his needs. Anyway, fast forward to this morning when he was in a terrible mood and was snapping at me and generally being unpleasant (he is not a morning person), I told him that he needs to try to be less grumpy in the morning because it is not fair on the rest of the family and once again had it thrown at me: 'if I got laid more I wouldn't be this grumpy'. Writing this all down I realise it doesn't sound very good but, I do love him, find him attractive and he is my best friend as well as husband and I don't want to lose him.... I am simply tired and all this pressure does nothing to help the return of my libido! AIBU or is he? Am I alone in this?

OP posts:
Jan45 · 18/09/2013 10:23

Honestly, from reading this you'd think this man was a child that needs nurturing by giving him sex when he demands it - someone said they'd be upset if only having sex twice a month, really, with two toddlers, one who hardly sleeps?

This is not about him having his bloody needs met, this is about a selfish, self important, self entitled asshole who is pressuring his lady who isn't just tired, she's exhausted, can he not see that? And, worst of all, threatening her with sex with someone else if she doesn't give in, my god, what a turn on for her, when she hears that she must feel really loving towards him.

Perhaps if he showed his lady some respect, gave her some help and showed that he actually loved her and was not just thinking about his own self gratification, he'd get somewhere.

onlywatching · 18/09/2013 10:31

Men with high sex drives would be far better to steer well clear of marriage, IMO. Even if the wife loves sex at first the chances are that won't continue, probably for perfectly understandable reasons, but it likely won't. Then the guy goes nuts with frustration, trouble ensues and there's unhappiness all round because he becomes a sex pest.
Not taking sides at all, but so much better for him to stay single. Just not worth the risk. Marriage is too much of a lottery for highly sexed guys.
As has been said, you won't die without sex. Nor will you die without a loving, affectionate wife.

Dahlen · 18/09/2013 10:36

This thread seems to have struck a nerve with a lot of people. I think it's fair to say that the OP's particular situation has got lost in a wider discussion about mismatched libidos and acceptable ways of handling that. I think that's a good discussion for people to have because it affects an awful lot of couples.

It's incredibly common for couples to find themselves in a situation where there are young children and one of the partners has gone off sex. It's more commonly the woman, but not always. It can carry on for a long time before it causes significant problems, but unless both partners decide sex is unimportant or agree to let each other have sex with others, eventually it will cause the relationship to fail. Assuming a relationship in which there is no abuse, it is just as unfair for the person who doesn't want sex to deny their partner a sex life as it is for the person who wants sex to demand the partner who doesn't submits to that.

Some couples eventually re-discover a good sex life naturally, either through time or simply because the demands of children/work/etc have receded a little. Others talk it through, change elements of their behaviour, develop new hobbies, find ways of reconnecting, or even go to counselling. They approach the problem together and solve it.

What doesn't work, is one partner trying to bully the other into doing what they want to do. And while no one is perfect and we can all descend into behaving badly when our buttons are pressed and we are horribly frustrated, if it is pointed out to you that your behaviour is hurtful and harmful and you carry on doing it anyway you cross the line into abuse.

catsmother · 18/09/2013 10:38

FFS, this man's wife is exhausted - this has been relayed to him time and again but he still keeps nagging, and pestering, and sniping at her. Which of course, are all well known seduction techniques aren't they ? Hmm

If he had an iota of intelligence and if indeed he "clearly" loves and fancies his wife as a person (compared to a convenient source of sexual release) you might think he'd consider how he could alleviate her exhaustion first and foremost. You might think he'd look honestly at how much work she does in the house compared to him, you might think he'd look honestly at how much time she gets to sit down and/or do her own thing compared to him etc etc etc., and seeing as they're both working FT, do whatever's necessary so that they both share an equal burden in regard to all that has to be done within a household. If he can honestly say that he's sharing all the drudgework 50:50 then the next step would be to start to get worried about his wife's exhaustion and suggest - with sensitivity - that she ought to see her GP just in case of any underlying physical or indeed mental cause.

Only when he's done all of that would he perhaps be "justified" in feeling hard done by and "rejected" when it comes to sex. And do you know, a man who "clearly" loved his wife still wouldn't attempt to "seduce" her with unpleasantries but would speak to her calmly about it - and not in the middle of trying to get his leg over - e.g. is there anything worrying her which could be affecting her libido, is there anything he's inadvertently done to upset her, is this something she and him could work on together, is there anything he can do better/differently to help get her in the mood, would she consider sex therapy and so on and so on.

Quite apart from all else, "joking" about men who cheat on their wives - when he's having sex twice a month anyway - and when, so far as we've been told, he's making no other effort to reduce his wife's exhaustion and/or make her feel better generally and/or show her that he loves and respects her as an individual (instead of a convenience) - is just plain mean. It's small wonder OP doesn't feel filled with enthusiasm at the idea of sex with him. And yes, this will just fester, because she will feel more and more resentful at being treated like an object.

Maybe if OP laid it all on the line to her DH about how she feels and what he could do to make her feel better and thus increase the chance of their sex life getting back on a more mutually agreeable track he'd have a sudden revelation about what a boor he's been but I wouldn't hold my breath (obviously it'd be good if he did). I suspect he's more the sort who'll feel even more hard done by because she's pointed out that he's basically been unfair and has been taking advantage of her - he may well even feel resentful that she wants him to do more "women's work" (housework and childcare) in his eyes. He would probably run the hoover round a bit more and then think he's done his bit. The ONLY way this is going to get sorted is if OP and her DH are both totally honest about the WHOLE picture and work out a way forward where neither feels totally exhausted. He also needs to understand that things change with kids - even if he was sharing work and responsibility properly - you are still likely to feel more tired than you once did and it's therefore not unusual or unreasonable to want less sex. He can help create optimal conditions for sex, but sex should never be an entitlement as such and he needs to accept it still might not be exactly all he wants. That's what his hand is for.

whitesugar · 18/09/2013 13:42

Extraordinary how a complete stranger and the complete stranger's husband can state that OP's DH is pathetic, immature and abusive. The OP herself states that she loves him, finds him attractive and that he is her best friend as well as her husband and that she doesn't want to lose him.

Offred · 18/09/2013 13:48

I'm just commenting on the behaviour.

HeyJudith · 18/09/2013 14:10

There is a heck of a lot of assumptions being made here.

What we do know is:

OP and her H have differing sex drives at present

The way H is behaving to OP is a problem.

OP must decide whether she simply LTB without any further conversation Hmm or if she wishes to initiate a conversation in which they both speak frankly about how they feel and then see if they can find ways in which to move forward.

It would seem that H has some thinking to do and some action to take but also it would be helpful if OP can outline her needs clearly that would help H to alleviate her tiredness.

As the OP doesn't highlight any other concerns and in fact says she loves him, finds him attractive, that he is her best friend as well as husband and that she don't want to lose him.... all pretty positive.. it would be more helpful (IMO) to support and reassure OP in that she is not being unreasonable (obviously) but also to suggest ways in which the channels of communication could be opened up to try and resolve the specific issue she has raised.

Saying
"If he had an iota of intelligence and if indeed he "clearly" loves and fancies his wife as a person (compared to a convenient source of sexual release) you might think he'd consider how he could alleviate her exhaustion first and foremost. You might think he'd look honestly at how much work she does in the house compared to him, you might think he'd look honestly at how much time she gets to sit down and/or do her own thing compared to him etc etc etc., and seeing as they're both working FT, do whatever's necessary so that they both share an equal burden in regard to all that has to be done within a household. If he can honestly say that he's sharing all the drudgework 50:50 then the next step would be to start to get worried about his wife's exhaustion and suggest - with sensitivity - that she ought to see her GP just in case of any underlying physical or indeed mental cause"

  • all that is great in theory but it's quite a tall order for some (lots of?) men and I think reads like something out of a magazine, not real life. Assuming OP's H has not done all or some of these things should she just LTB.... or... find a way to open up communication?

What I am getting at is that it's all very well pontificating on what he coulda/woulda/shoulda done but regardless, the choice is: LTB or open up discussion about it. YES in an ideal world she shouldn't have to, he would do it, but you've got to work with what you've got, not what you haven't.

Offred · 18/09/2013 14:12

Honestly? Behaving like a human being is a tall order for most men?

I don't agree at all.

Offred · 18/09/2013 14:13

(And I don't think anyone has said LTB)

garlicbaguette · 18/09/2013 14:18

OP must decide whether she simply LTB without any further conversation ... it would be helpful if OP can outline her needs clearly

Are we reading the same thread? I've got the distinct impression funny has explained the problem lots of times. What leads you to think she came straight here for a whinge, instead of talking to her husband?

garlicbaguette · 18/09/2013 14:20

YY, Offred, being a caring, considerate human is normal for most men!

HeyJudith · 18/09/2013 14:20

What do you think OP should do Offred?

HeyJudith · 18/09/2013 14:25

garlic I understand that OP has told H she is tired and exhausted, yes.

I meant identifying ways in which H can specifically take action e.g. he does half the night wakes, he gets the kids ready half the mornings, he does the laundry on alternative weekends, or whatever it is OP needs to make her feel less tired and exhausted. Of course if she has identified and outlined exactly what would help and he has ignored it then I didn't see that bit for which my apologies are offered.

Offred · 18/09/2013 14:27

If you read the thread I gave my advice several times. Unfortunately I feel I got drawn into trying to challenge the woman blaming and rape apology.

For clarification my advice was that she needs to call him out on his unacceptable behaviour, ask him to tell her what he has to offer her. Beyond that if she is interested in staying with him she needs to know how deep this abusive behaviour goes in him and it needs to absolutely and totally stop.

garlicbaguette · 18/09/2013 14:27

May I answer? Both Offred and I have suggested Mr Funnymummy needs a massive wake-up call. As she has tried all the usual methods, and is being ignored, this is likely to mean a huge telling off, bags packed and door slammed. A few days of heel-cooling can sometimes work, especially if the guy's going to cry on the shoulders of friends. Quite often, groups of blokes big themselves up with abusive macho comments that most of them don't mean. When one of their number turns out to have been behaving like that in his real life, others are shocked and tell him the error of his ways. Parents do this sometimes, too.

Doesn't always work but it's worth a try.

garlicbaguette · 18/09/2013 14:31

Thanks for your reply, Judith. I'm curious - if you were relaxing on the sofa, watching TV, while somebody else was rushing around, working, and clearly exhausted to the point of tears, would you really have no clue what to do about it?? Would you not even ask what you could do?

VisualiseAHorse · 18/09/2013 14:55

Well said catsmother

youvegotmail · 18/09/2013 16:11

garlic are we reading the same thread?! Where on earth did the OP say she was rushing around exhausted and on the point of tears while hubby sat on the sofa?!? You're just making stuff up - and it's not helpful. She said they are BOTH tired, actually.

I was waiting for the 'rape apologist' comment Offred - your posting is such a cliché. He's not a rapist. He's a nag. Small difference.

They have mismatched libidos in an otherwise good relationship (according to OP) and that's what needs to be dealt with, sensitively for both parties.

garlicbaguette · 18/09/2013 16:30

You're right. I thought I had read that, but I didn't.

OP, please will you clarify, if you're still here: Does DH do as much as you when you're home from work? Thank you :)

Offred · 18/09/2013 16:32

I don't think you are reading the same thread.

It is nothing to do with having mismatched libidos.

It is everything to do with him pestering, bullying and threatening for sex which he then has knowing his wife doesn't want to and is not satisfied and continues sulking and grumping.

This is an abnormal and destructive relationship dynamic and it is not just how men are.

HeyJudith · 18/09/2013 16:33

garlic you are projecting with the scenario you describe.

Regarding TV - OP said her H is tired too but won't admit it, preferring to stay up late and watch TV.. not that he watches TV whilst she rushes around exhausted.

And where does OP say H does not do his share of household chores? She has cited the children not sleeping and going back to work FT as the main reasons for her tiredness.

Nowhere did she mention division of chores being an issue (that I can see).

Offred · 18/09/2013 16:34

And his behaviour is sexually abusive.

HeyJudith · 18/09/2013 16:34

X posts :)

Jan45 · 18/09/2013 16:36

Last night, I was falling asleep on the sofa because I was so exhausted and when we went to bed I was ready to crash out. He decides to start watching a programme and at the same time starts attempting to get things going. I have to admit that because I was so tired, I completely ignored his advances and in actual fact, rather than getting me going, he actually irritated me as I felt it was extremely selfish of him to ignore my tiredness and try to stop me from sleeping in order to satisfy his needs.

A snapshot above - he really knows how to get his woman going huh...

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread